Your Religion

[Imudman]

Quote by: Starboy Good point. Let the Christians be the first example. Get them to stop telling America what is wrong with it and just get on with their own religion. Starboy

I think it would be good if everyone would take your advice. Not only christians...

[Athena]

I am sorry, we can not ignore the clash between Christians and non Christians. Christians have become too offensive and threatening to our democracy. This democracy results from literacy in Greek and Roman classics and eighteenth century philosophy. This philosophy deified Nature and denatured God, and this was well justified by religoius wars and persecutions, the witch hunts which began in Germany and lasted 200 years killing thousands of innocent people. The Inquistion which killed even more and the repression of science, such as the house arrest of Galileo and forbidding him from publishing. Come on folks, this history has everything to do with our democracy. It is our history, and no, I will not let it be forgotten. What disguished our democracy from all of Europe was this unrelenting search for truth and it was nature we turned to for truth, not the bible.

Since Nature was made the new God, source of all wisdom, as it was in the days of Athens the first democracy, and for Romans such as Cicero, it was to Nature that the eigtheenth century looked for guidance, from Nature that it expected to recieve the tablets of the law. This is made blantantly clear in our Declaration of Independence. It has been a huge victory of Christianity to remove this from our education, and to falsify a belief that what made our nation Great was Christianity. Christianity had no more to do with making our nation great, then it made Germany, France or England great. God, did not bless America with gold, oil and other mineral resources essential to the good life of US citizens because good Christians prayed for this blessing. The Creator blessed this land millions of years before Christianity. It is now time to correct this domination of one religion, and to rescue our democracy from its grasp.

[BaldEagle]

I am not religious, but I was raised in a christian home. I suppose it is this fact that aggrevates me when I hear all the christian bashing, not just here, but in all of society. My Mom was a good christian woman and walked the walk and talked the talk. I respected her for that and loved her very much. Pehaps I take it too personally. I have chosen my own path to follow. I do regret that I did not expose my children to religion, not because I want them to chose it, but because they desrve to have that opportunity. I suspect they will never make an informed decision because of my failure in this regard. Everyone should be free to chose, but without all the facts that freedom seems irrelevant.

BaldEagle

[Gorgo]

Quote by: BaldEagle desrve to have that opportunity.

\

Your children do not deserve that kind of abuse. My mother is religious, and we do not discuss religion. I am now on a discussion board where people discuss all kinds of things. Bashing of people is something that's not allowed on this forum. Bashing of stupid ideas is. You fail to make that distinction. No one is bashing Christians. Some of us are bashing stupid ideas.

[MerlinsByte]

Quote by: Starboy Good point. Let the Christians be the first example. Get them to stop telling America what is wrong with it and just get on with their own religion. Starboy

(By prome.)...Ah, yet again you speak wisdom. But no one will ever do what you propose. Like 90% of religious people are only religious so they can have vaunted since of self-righteousness.

Merlin writes…The Christians (it chaps my butt that Christians are singled out of all the worlds’ religions as the bad guys, however, this is foretold in the bible. In the very latter days it will be much worse, or better as I love it when what is prophesied by the lords word comes true)

Ahh’ the Christians do give more than any other single religious group. Secular atheists? Give me an abstract on their gifts to humanity by historical contributions or monetary ones or humanitarian criteria?

Silence is truly golden in some applications.

mb

[Matt W]

What, like my donations towards tsumani victims, helping of the homeless in my town, donations to Friends of the Earth and Mencap?

Get a grip, mb.

If you want to talk about secular 'humanitarian aid', shall we start with the simple observation that all government aid is, by definition, secular?

[Gorgo]

In fact, all real aid is secular. God doesn't do a durn thing for anyone.

I heard some televangelist screaming the other day about how they're building a 10 million dollar church. Most funds that go to churches are a waste. They help no one. Usually if they give money that does anyone any good, it's done separately from what goes into the collection plate. Hospitals run by churches charge patients and use government funds.

[Locutus]

Quote by: GreatWyrm of Babylon Egad, I give up. The only difference between using logic against you, and beating my head against a tree is that I have no proof that the tree does not understand...

Hell I can't stop laughing, I recon that has to be the funniest thing i have read in a long time. I have not read all the post before it so i dont know what context it is in but I love the line.

Quote by: GreatWyrm of Babylon I just can't wait for him to call me a "poopy head" or something along those lines...(lol)

heheh ditto poopy head, you got to love it, how bout this one then...........God no I can't I almost cant resist the temptation to hit you with one of the famous monty python insults. I better go before i get into trouble..
Keep up the good work


heheheh poopy head hehehe
Lo

[Villin221]

Quote by: Athena Christians have become too offensive and threatening to our democracy.

What I find the most humorous about partisan or religious debate are quotes like this one. Just insert the word “Liberals” in place of “Christians” in that line to get a Conservative viewpoint. You could then go on to say that Liberals are trying to brainwash our children into a bunch of Godless heathens through a sinister plan disguised as social tolerance. Or, if you feel like being a liberal for a little while, just change that last line a little and say that Conservatives are trying to brainwash our children into a bunch of ignorant fascists through a sinister plan disguised as religion. So then who are the bad guys really, the Commies or the Christians? Both sides of the fence make compelling arguments against the other, but I think it should be emphasized that the kind of people ATHENA is referring to only call themselves Christians to gain support, much like Bush did. They shouldn’t be confused with people who just want to feel good about themselves and find comfort and a moral foundation in religion. Those kinds of people, who genuinely want to do good in the world, aren’t the kind of people that rant about fire and brimstone and our impending doom in the Apocalypse. I think far too many so-called Christians, and curious non-Christians, have only read the Book of Revelations in the Bible, or most likely, someone else's interpretations of it. They know the basics of the most popular Bible stories only becuase they read the cartoon version in Sunday School. But going so far as to actually read teachings straight from the bible, probably not. They don't need to really, they have plenty of people to tell them what to think for them, which saves a lot time.

Some of the most important teachings of the Bible, like tolerance and unconditional love, are completely alien concepts to those theologians who scream the loudest. Good hearted people don’t scream and rant and condemn other human beings, which is to say that many of the most prominent leaders of modern Christianity are not good-hearted people. That doesn’t mean the religion itself is some kind of sinister force in the world. Just because a powerful person says he’s Christian doesn’t mean he really understands what it means to be a Christian. Stalin called himself a Communist but that doesn’t mean he really understood, or even cared about, the actual concepts of Marxism. I am going to quote Psalm 1:1. I’m pretty sure most people have never read this or just choose to ignore it. Afterall, it says that we should be nice to people. This can be very dangerous in an age when generosity is considered a weakness.

Psalm 1:1 Blessed is he who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, who does not stand in the way of sinners, nor sit in the seat of scoffers.

I don’t listen to most interpretations of Christianity. I have read much of the bible and think it has much to teach and make us think about. It doesn’t say that everyone who voted for John Kerry is going to hell, not anywhere. It doesn’t say that everyone unfortunate enough to have been born in the Third World will go to hell either. There is a cryptic Book at the very end which talks about the end of the world as we know it, but it's vague at best. It certainly doesn’t say it will happen tomorrow or that America is going to be the final refuge of the righteous and faithful while everyone else burns. Some preachers may have written that stuff into their own copies with magic marker, but I assure you that intolerance and hate is not encouraged in the Bible. Torquemata, the Inquisitor, was a raving psychopath acting on behalf of his Church, but that doesn't mean he was acting on behalf of God. I don’t recall anything in the Bible suggesting that Christians should take it upon themselves to pass judgment on others, much less torture them. The God depicted in the Bible that I read would certainly frown on such a thing. Isn’t it a little presumptuous to claim that you are speaking on God’s behalf when your message emphasizes hatred and group intolerance? Like that preacher who banned members of his church who voted for John Kerry. Has he ever even heard about the stories of Christ welcoming everyone, even prostitutes, into his sermons? People who call themselves Christians but have the audacity to pass judgment on others are very misguided in my opinion. Jesus didn’t go around telling everyone they’d go to hell if they didn’t listen to him. People sought him out because he made them feel good about life, something Roman society did not do. I really don’t think that Jesus ever meant for his teachings to be used as an excuse to condemn other people. There are many who use their religious doctrines as a way to express their hatred for life, but that doesn’t make religion itself sinister. The only reason anyone listens to them is because they are good at building loyalty through fear. People like that will always find a way to externalize their hatred, with or without religion.

[oranged]

I am a shinto. I don't blame you if you never heard of it. It was founded by a man named Hidyoshi. It's about absolute abstanence. From drugs, sex, unhealthy food. It teaches these things to purify the mind, thusleading on the path to enlightenment, It like most other religions, teaches about generosity, and kindness too. It's technically a form of buddhism, but it doesn't discorage violence as much. Hidyoshi invented the shotgun, as a matter of fact, and he killed all the corrupt samurai in Japan. He is the main reason Japan is prosperous today. It is very accepting of other religions, and never goes on recruiting missions, because then the world would become under-populated.

[Starboy]

A shinto in Stockholm. Are you native Japanese?

Starboy

[Flip Jackson]

Villin, amen to your remark. I think you said it better than I ever could have. To many people that claim to be Christian, pollute the title and use it to their advantage. I think that for most organizations the loudest people are taken as the majority.

Oranged, shinto sounds pretty cool. That is something else I will have to add to my list of things to study. I thought your final remark was pretty funny to.

[BaldEagle]

Quote by: Gorgo \ Your children do not deserve that kind of abuse. My mother is religious, and we do not discuss religion. I am now on a discussion board where people discuss all kinds of things. Bashing of people is something that's not allowed on this forum. Bashing of stupid ideas is. You fail to make that distinction. No one is bashing Christians. Some of us are bashing stupid ideas.

I do believe my children should have a choice, just as you did. If you didn't have that choice you would have already been terminated by the marauding christians. Calling someone insane or stupid because of what they believe is more than just bashing the stupid belief. I am not referring to you as you made no reference to my intelligence or sanity, but some do and my remarks only addressed that christian bashing is taking place. As I stated I probably take it too personally even though I am not a christian. If it does not upset you that people are calling your mother crazy or stupid that is fine with me, but I take offense to it, because mine was neither.

BaldEagle

[Chris Weimer]

I am a Western Daoist, a follower of the writings of, among other people, the Magister. I hold that only two people had the best wisdom, one LaoTzu, one the Magister.

[Savant]

I was raised christian, but began to have my doubts at around age 12. I decided I was an athiest around 13 or so, but my parents insisted that if asked, I call my self "agnostic", to keep up appearances.

Naturally, it took into my 20's for me to completely recover from my theist upbringing. Unfortunely christian children are taught to believe in eternal souls, and thusly if they decide later that it's all a bunch of hooey, they are forced to mourn the loss of an eternity. I believe this is one of Christianity's most clever tactics of self pereservation.

Fortunately at the time my boss shared my atheism and accepted death in shockingly simple terms. "Well, it's not going to bother you in the slightest to be dead, so why worry about it." Indeed. I became involved with the online atheist community and with a bit of time, freed myself from the irrational ideals I found hardest to let go of.

My wife was a strong atheist when I met her (I was a weak atheist at the time.). Nowadays we are both strong, and our whole family is comfortable without religion. I am proud of us. I think every family tree will have that one pioneering mom and dad that decide to break the chain of supernatural sillyness. I'm glad to say we are that branch in our tree.

[MerlinsByte]

by Flip J....Villin, amen to your remark. I think you said it better than I ever could have. To many people that claim to be Christian, pollute the title and use it to their advantage.

merlin writes...I agree that some Christians do the devils work better that 10,000 demons could on a good day. This misconception (and ignorance of christianity) is pandemic in the believers ranks as well as the majority of the ignorant, unbelievers numbers.

Christianity is the same as any other religion or belief system. The sect runs from give me dat' old time religion Jim Jones, to the primitive (and beautiful) snake handling strychnine drinking church of god ”sect” all the way past the buffoon Jimmy Swaggers, well past the devout (and lovely) Billy Graham to the open theists like myself. Christianity is only refined paganism, like some other major religions.

So when someone tells you that they are christian you might want to ask them what sect they are or what their core belief is, it might save you and them some grief.

mb

[Kuldeep]

[quote=dotComa]Hey,

What is your religious affiliation, why, and what conclusions have you come to about your own religion. Do you accept other ones? If not why...

By birth, I am Hindu and brought up as Kashmiri Pandit! Right from the age of 8 years or so, I was wondering as to why there exist so many religions at all!!! That time as a child, I was familiar with Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. My little brain at that time was wondering Hindus go to Temple, Muslims to mosque, Sikhs to Gurudwara and Christians to Church. Right at that time, I thought none can be correct in eyes of Creator(Say God or Self made universe debated separately). Meaning, if going to Temple is correct, then other three communities are doing crime by not going to temple. similarly if going to Mosque is correct, then remaining three communities are doing crime by not going to mosque and so on and so forth. Therefore as I child, I decided with myself that what ever would be common and applicable to all are the real good things to do. Or, say those common things should be the base to frame a common World Religion. Later when I grew up, I came across a word "The Humanity". Leaving God aside, we all want others should respect, help, and love etc us (all actions cosidered good), so we should also try to perform similar actions to others. In other words "Do unto others what you expect others should do unto you" this should be the base of "World Common Religion, namely Humanity". This can be applicable to an individual to individual, state to state or even country to country basis. It is a great irony that all of us are Humans but Humanity lies very far away , may be at Mars Planet or even farther!!!!!!

In view of above, I consider all the religions of the world as dogmas and One Religion theory should be propagated for perfect and permanent peace in whole of the world. Rules should be set in developing unique HUMANITY RELIGION all over. Rules can be modified from time to time by world's renouned humanists. Would such an atmosphere be a reality in future?????? :)

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Kuldeep By birth, I am Hindu and brought up as Kashmiri Pandit! Right from the age of 8 years or so, I was wondering as to why there exist so many religions at all!!! That time as a child, I was familiar with Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. My little brain at that time was wondering Hindus go to Temple, Muslims to mosque, Sikhs to Gurudwara and Christians to Church. Right at that time, I thought none can be correct in eyes of Creator(Say God or Self made universe debated separately). Meaning, if going to Temple is correct, then other three communities are doing crime by not going to temple. similarly if going to Mosque is correct, then remaining three communities are doing crime by not going to mosque and so on and so forth. Therefore as I child, I decided with myself that what ever would be common and applicable to all are the real good things to do. Or, say those common things should be the base to frame a common World Religion. Later when I grew up, I came across a word "The Humanity". Leaving God aside, we all want others should respect, help, and love etc us (all actions cosidered good), so we should also try to perform similar actions to others. In other words "Do unto others what you expect others should do unto you" this should be the base of "World Common Religion, namely Humanity". This can be applicable to an individual to individual, state to state or even country to country basis. It is a great irony that all of us are Humans but Humanity lies very far away , may be at Mars Planet or even farther!!!!!! In view of above, I consider all the religions of the world as dogmas and One Religion theory should be propagated for perfect and permanent peace in whole of the world. Rules should be set in developing unique HUMANITY RELIGION all over. Rules can be modified from time to time by world's renouned humanists. Would such an atmosphere be a reality in future?????? :)

Sorry, I forgot to start my post with, "I have not read even a single post in 74 pages, but am posting my views which look some what lunatic! But imagine hypothetically, if whole human race, once for all decide to erase word religion from everybody's mind and put inside Humanity as his religion. How would world look like!!! All peace around, no fights on religions, no harming each other, no wars, no army, no boundries or boders and what not??? I am puzzled and keep only imagining!!!!!

[MerlinsByte]

"Do unto others what you expect others should do unto you" this should be the base of (a)"World Common Religion, namely Humanity".

hmmmm

[CJFreeman]

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn) n. 1.Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. 2.A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 3.The life or condition of a person in a religious order. 4.A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. 5.A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

I take it President Lincoln was speaking in the fifth sense, not the other four.

Christopher J. Freeman