Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Rod · Feb 22, 2005, 11:34 pm

I took a minute or two to read some post, not all its around 60 pages, correct me if I am wrong, but I see alot of people in here have some trouble into believing in a Supreme Being.

I don't think science (My Opinion) has anything on his side in order to win the longest debate yet which is "Evolution vs Creation" - Which may say allready I am Christian.

Reading some previouse posts I see some people are making judgements on what Basicly a "Monk" or a "Pope" do, what there failure actions (if we can call them like that) are, Im really focusing into the Topic of Catholicism since they have been alot of news where people from the High hierarchy of the catholic church have been molesting young boys and similar outrageous stuff.

My point is we cannot make judgements like "There is no God because they do this" We all have different minds and I would say different worlds aswell.

SlySpy · Feb 23, 2005, 10:50 am

Quote:

Quote by: Rod

I don't think science (My Opinion) has anything on his side in order to win the longest debate yet which is "Evolution vs Creation" - Which may say allready I am Christian.

That sounds pretty desolate considering that it is, or supposed to be, a scientific debate.

Starboy · Feb 23, 2005, 11:12 am

Quote:

Quote by: SlySpy

That sounds pretty desolate considering that it is, or supposed to be, a scientific debate.

That is the funny thing about it. It is a debate about reality. In this day and age science is the arbiter of the real. However the godbots insist that their magical world is real so hence they are forced to challenge science. Why they think they could possible win at the game science invented is beyond me but hey, they are magical thinkers.

Starboy

lobeworm · Feb 27, 2005, 01:50 am

I am between religions, choosing that i should not really classify myself as one or the other because of certain key attributes. For this reason i classify myself as taoist, because it seems to be the most adaptive religion and yet also it does not seem like a religion, just a guide to how to live youre life, like what the bible would be without god or jesus

Heuristic · Feb 28, 2005, 05:22 am

I'm a Protestant Christian. None practising.

FUDGE · Mar 1, 2005, 10:53 am

Quote:

Quote by: lobeworm

For this reason i classify myself as taoist

just curious~
what does a taoist do in your definition~
do you actually believe in relax, laid-back living style~

TexunNYC · Mar 1, 2005, 05:20 pm

I'm a Western woman who was raised Roman Catholic, though my religious beliefs and practices have been more Hindu for many years. Not exactly an easy path to walk (some temples are more accepting than others but, on the whole, I'm relegated to pooja at home, with little in the way of community support) This transition wasn't epiphanal, but a gradual conclusion to a decade long examination of all the major religious ideologies until I'd come to a point where I recognized my personal truth.

Now amalgamating that with my scientific understandings of neurology -- that there is a "God" part of the brain -- I've not quite found my answers, yet.

xpanda · Mar 3, 2005, 03:48 pm

Female raised Roman Catholic. In my early years I began to question the rigidity of my church, and, more importantly, it's mandate for women. In the ninth grade, I got into a bit of a debate with a priest over the legality of keeping women from the priesthood and was promptly suspended. I decided at that time that Catholicism wasn't for me, though I hadn't yet rejected Christianity. Slowly, over time, I came to call myself agnostic ... I questioned this a little further and now call myself atheist. Really, I'm benevolent to the whole thing. I have days where I do hope that hell exists for in there, I can chain smoke. :)

JamesMcBride · Mar 7, 2005, 12:56 pm

Zen Buddhist in training!

Armadeo · Mar 22, 2005, 02:01 am

I'm agnostic, so basically I believe there is a higher power, but I don't worship it, or in anyway think it is a part of our life. Vey simple religion, don't have to waste any time praying, and it allows you to live a free and open minded life. I am able to accept just about anyone's point of view.

JamesMcBride · Mar 22, 2005, 05:01 am

An agnostic is someone who is skeptical of the existence of God but doesn't rule out it's existence entirely. You're not agnostic... You're a theist - albeit, a very lazy one! :-D

glitzyglamgirl · Mar 22, 2005, 02:32 pm

Hi, im new here and it loo,ms like the kind of place I would enjoy

Anyway - to the point.

I am a pagan/spiritualist. That may seem like an odd mix, but I have always been Pagan (used loosely as an umbrella term for any nature based religion or philosophy), but have recently found a more spiritual path.

I have the upmost respect for any and all religions, its everyones own right to believe what they want, what does upset me however is the attitude that religion gives people the right to hate.

Any way I wont ramble on, i can see much debate forthcoming :)

Isacki · Mar 30, 2005, 03:09 pm

I'm a Protestant Christian. I was born in UK.

When people question my faith or my belief in God, I actively try not to ignore them or denounce them as 'unbelievers' because that is unproductive. All I can say is that science is a great tool and has done unimaginable work at advancing our knowledge of the physical. I want to be a physicist myself. But science cannot explain the supernatural or what occurs after death... it is outside the physical realm, and there is no one to report back from the dead.

My belief in a Christian God is based not based on belief that evolution is false, because I am very sympathetic to the idea of evolution, or that the Earth is flat, because I know it is round, but that I genuinely sense God's presence (it's that old "God part of the brain" again eh?) and have genuinely had prayers answered. When missionaries need money to continue their work, it has often arrived inexplicably. When I have prayed, completely out of free will, I have seen my prayers answered. Not every time by any means, but on several occasions. This makes sense to me because if there was a God, he would not fulfill prayers that went against His will. This is why when people pray and condemn the existence of a God because their particular prayers are unanswered, I personally would tell them to examine what they're asking for.

I am not brainwashed or a religious fanatic. My views accord with Liberals on many issues, including concern for the poor and welfare. I recently already went through something of a faith crisis when I doubted my beliefs, especially when I saw them being expressed in what I saw as a violent and unrepresentative way (I probably don't need to name what I mean). However, that has ended because I realised that the message and the people who act on it are not necessarily the same, and I see no wrong in the core tenets of my belief. As an aspiring physicist I believe that many inherent questions about the world are unsolved - its existence, for one. I would hold that the Big Bang theory is true and is neither proof nor disproof of a God. It posits that there was a beginning. I believe it takes more than modern science to explain why matter came out of nothing. You probably know what I'm leading up to.

I believe the Bible insofar as it relates to God and so long that the message was inspired by God. Therefore I support free trade and debt cancellation, and the improvement of our behaviour towards poor nations.
I am almost completely opposed to war unless it is one of self-defence, and even then I have difficulty reconciling it with Scripture.

I do believe in God and his son Jesus Christ as the only saviour because I do say there is only one way to God and that is to accept Jesus. I thus disagree with the Universalist view that all religions point to God in the end and everyone will enter heaven in the end. Why? Because the differences between the world's religions are too great for us to worship the same deity in my book. Christianity claims the existence of a Messiah and says who they think he is, while Judaism and Islam disagree with Christianity on the Messiah element in various ways. Hinduism believes in a Pantheon of Gods. Buddhism doesn't even claim a God exists. According to the 'all is truth' theory, any religion anyone made up on the spot would qualify for salvation. I cannot accept that is rational. Yes, it is exclusive in that sense, but you would think if a God existed he would only accept people if they believed in him. I don't think it is possible to demand salvation if you claim the person who gives it doesn't exist.

That said they are just my views. I believe Christianity to be the only way. A Muslim would likely tell you that Islam is the only way, and a Jew would tell you that Judaism is the only way. We should all be able to live with these viewpoints, so long that we do not fight over them. I will not push my religious views aggressively onto people or evangelise them unless they are interested.

Rod · Mar 30, 2005, 05:08 pm

What's your definition of a Religouse Fanatic?? This is a nice concept to talk about.

**Matt W** · Mar 31, 2005, 04:02 am

But not on a 62-page thread. Make a new one?

Rod · Mar 31, 2005, 08:15 pm

Yes, good idea, make a new one. Be my guest.

PA28 Pilot · Apr 2, 2005, 04:34 am

It looks like all the above posters know/have all the answers. So come back after you die and tell me there is no God, no death or hell. Oh, that's right, Jesus said you can't leave hell even to tell us about it. Enjoy your eternity there -NOT.

There is only one way to eternal life, and that is by faith in Jesus Christ, the only son of God. Any other way only leads to hell. You don't like that? Well, just wait, you'll find out the truth when you die.

PatrickHenry · Apr 2, 2005, 04:43 am

Quote:

Quote by: PA28 Pilot

It looks like all the above posters know/have all the answers. So come back after you die and tell me there is no God, no death or hell. Oh, that's right, Jesus said you can't leave hell even to tell us about it. Enjoy your eternity there -NOT.

There is only one way to eternal life, and that is by faith in Jesus Christ, the only son of God. Any other way only leads to hell. You don't like that? Well, just wait, you'll find out the truth when you die.

All sixty-two pages of debaters have all the answers? I hope they don't get into a cock-fight! That would be quite a blood-letting...

PA28 Pilot · Apr 2, 2005, 12:15 pm

Say what you will; maybe starboy, et al, worship themselves.

PA28 Pilot · Apr 2, 2005, 12:16 pm

Isaki's post sounds like someone who has it all together!

Feb 22, 2005, 11:34 pm	#601 (permalink) (top)
Rod $faith++ Posts: 110	I took a minute or two to read some post, not all its around 60 pages, correct me if I am wrong, but I see alot of people in here have some trouble into believing in a Supreme Being. I don't think science (My Opinion) has anything on his side in order to win the longest debate yet which is "Evolution vs Creation" - Which may say allready I am Christian. Reading some previouse posts I see some people are making judgements on what Basicly a "Monk" or a "Pope" do, what there failure actions (if we can call them like that) are, Im really focusing into the Topic of Catholicism since they have been alot of news where people from the High hierarchy of the catholic church have been molesting young boys and similar outrageous stuff. My point is we cannot make judgements like "There is no God because they do this" We all have different minds and I would say different worlds aswell. Last edited by Rod; Feb 22, 2005 at 11:51 pm.

Feb 28, 2005, 05:22 am	#605 (permalink) (top)
Heuristic Molten Ash Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 32	I'm a Protestant Christian. None practising. Sometimes life seems like a dream, especially when I look down and see that I forgot to put on my pants.

Mar 1, 2005, 05:20 pm	#607 (permalink) (top)
TexunNYC Sedimentary Rock Location: NYC Posts: 3	I'm a Western woman who was raised Roman Catholic, though my religious beliefs and practices have been more Hindu for many years. Not exactly an easy path to walk (some temples are more accepting than others but, on the whole, I'm relegated to pooja at home, with little in the way of community support) This transition wasn't epiphanal, but a gradual conclusion to a decade long examination of all the major religious ideologies until I'd come to a point where I recognized my personal truth. Now amalgamating that with my scientific understandings of neurology -- that there is a "God" part of the brain -- I've not quite found my answers, yet. "Man is the only creature that refuses to be what he is." ~ Albert Camus

Mar 30, 2005, 03:09 pm	#613 (permalink) (top)
Isacki Sedimentary Rock Posts: 5	I'm a Protestant Christian. I was born in UK. When people question my faith or my belief in God, I actively try not to ignore them or denounce them as 'unbelievers' because that is unproductive. All I can say is that science is a great tool and has done unimaginable work at advancing our knowledge of the physical. I want to be a physicist myself. But science cannot explain the supernatural or what occurs after death... it is outside the physical realm, and there is no one to report back from the dead. My belief in a Christian God is based not based on belief that evolution is false, because I am very sympathetic to the idea of evolution, or that the Earth is flat, because I know it is round, but that I genuinely sense God's presence (it's that old "God part of the brain" again eh?) and have genuinely had prayers answered. When missionaries need money to continue their work, it has often arrived inexplicably. When I have prayed, completely out of free will, I have seen my prayers answered. Not every time by any means, but on several occasions. This makes sense to me because if there was a God, he would not fulfill prayers that went against His will. This is why when people pray and condemn the existence of a God because their particular prayers are unanswered, I personally would tell them to examine what they're asking for. I am not brainwashed or a religious fanatic. My views accord with Liberals on many issues, including concern for the poor and welfare. I recently already went through something of a faith crisis when I doubted my beliefs, especially when I saw them being expressed in what I saw as a violent and unrepresentative way (I probably don't need to name what I mean). However, that has ended because I realised that the message and the people who act on it are not necessarily the same, and I see no wrong in the core tenets of my belief. As an aspiring physicist I believe that many inherent questions about the world are unsolved - its existence, for one. I would hold that the Big Bang theory is true and is neither proof nor disproof of a God. It posits that there was a beginning. I believe it takes more than modern science to explain why matter came out of nothing. You probably know what I'm leading up to. I believe the Bible insofar as it relates to God and so long that the message was inspired by God. Therefore I support free trade and debt cancellation, and the improvement of our behaviour towards poor nations. I am almost completely opposed to war unless it is one of self-defence, and even then I have difficulty reconciling it with Scripture. I do believe in God and his son Jesus Christ as the only saviour because I do say there is only one way to God and that is to accept Jesus. I thus disagree with the Universalist view that all religions point to God in the end and everyone will enter heaven in the end. Why? Because the differences between the world's religions are too great for us to worship the same deity in my book. Christianity claims the existence of a Messiah and says who they think he is, while Judaism and Islam disagree with Christianity on the Messiah element in various ways. Hinduism believes in a Pantheon of Gods. Buddhism doesn't even claim a God exists. According to the 'all is truth' theory, any religion anyone made up on the spot would qualify for salvation. I cannot accept that is rational. Yes, it is exclusive in that sense, but you would think if a God existed he would only accept people if they believed in him. I don't think it is possible to demand salvation if you claim the person who gives it doesn't exist. That said they are just my views. I believe Christianity to be the only way. A Muslim would likely tell you that Islam is the only way, and a Jew would tell you that Judaism is the only way. We should all be able to live with these viewpoints, so long that we do not fight over them. I will not push my religious views aggressively onto people or evangelise them unless they are interested. Last edited by Isacki; Mar 30, 2005 at 03:15 pm.

Mar 31, 2005, 04:02 am	#615 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 7,197	But not on a 62-page thread. Make a new one? I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Feb 27, 2005, 01:50 am	#604 (permalink) (top)
lobeworm I wish I was Bowie Location: Australia Posts: 39	I am between religions, choosing that i should not really classify myself as one or the other because of certain key attributes. For this reason i classify myself as taoist, because it seems to be the most adaptive religion and yet also it does not seem like a religion, just a guide to how to live youre life, like what the bible would be without god or jesus

Mar 3, 2005, 03:48 pm	#608 (permalink) (top)
xpanda Mouthy beotch Location: Southern Ontario Posts: 22	Female raised Roman Catholic. In my early years I began to question the rigidity of my church, and, more importantly, it's mandate for women. In the ninth grade, I got into a bit of a debate with a priest over the legality of keeping women from the priesthood and was promptly suspended. I decided at that time that Catholicism wasn't for me, though I hadn't yet rejected Christianity. Slowly, over time, I came to call myself agnostic ... I questioned this a little further and now call myself atheist. Really, I'm benevolent to the whole thing. I have days where I do hope that hell exists for in there, I can chain smoke. :)

Mar 7, 2005, 12:56 pm	#609 (permalink) (top)
JamesMcBride Canoe Champ Location: London, UK Posts: 171	Zen Buddhist in training!

Mar 22, 2005, 02:01 am	#610 (permalink) (top)
Armadeo Sedimentary Rock Posts: 1	I'm agnostic, so basically I believe there is a higher power, but I don't worship it, or in anyway think it is a part of our life. Vey simple religion, don't have to waste any time praying, and it allows you to live a free and open minded life. I am able to accept just about anyone's point of view.

Mar 22, 2005, 05:01 am	#611 (permalink) (top)
JamesMcBride Canoe Champ Location: London, UK Posts: 171	An agnostic is someone who is skeptical of the existence of God but doesn't rule out it's existence entirely. You're not agnostic... You're a theist - albeit, a very lazy one! :-D

Mar 22, 2005, 02:32 pm	#612 (permalink) (top)
glitzyglamgirl Sedimentary Rock Location: South Wales - UK Posts: 9	Hi, im new here and it loo,ms like the kind of place I would enjoy Anyway - to the point. I am a pagan/spiritualist. That may seem like an odd mix, but I have always been Pagan (used loosely as an umbrella term for any nature based religion or philosophy), but have recently found a more spiritual path. I have the upmost respect for any and all religions, its everyones own right to believe what they want, what does upset me however is the attitude that religion gives people the right to hate. Any way I wont ramble on, i can see much debate forthcoming :)

Mar 30, 2005, 05:08 pm	#614 (permalink) (top)
Rod $faith++ Posts: 110	What's your definition of a Religouse Fanatic?? This is a nice concept to talk about.

Mar 31, 2005, 08:15 pm	#616 (permalink) (top)
Rod $faith++ Posts: 110	Yes, good idea, make a new one. Be my guest.

Apr 2, 2005, 04:34 am	#617 (permalink) (top)
PA28 Pilot Sedimentary Rock Posts: 7	It looks like all the above posters know/have all the answers. So come back after you die and tell me there is no God, no death or hell. Oh, that's right, Jesus said you can't leave hell even to tell us about it. Enjoy your eternity there -NOT. There is only one way to eternal life, and that is by faith in Jesus Christ, the only son of God. Any other way only leads to hell. You don't like that? Well, just wait, you'll find out the truth when you die.

Apr 2, 2005, 12:15 pm	#619 (permalink) (top)
PA28 Pilot Sedimentary Rock Posts: 7	Say what you will; maybe starboy, et al, worship themselves.

Apr 2, 2005, 12:16 pm	#620 (permalink) (top)
PA28 Pilot Sedimentary Rock Posts: 7	Isaki's post sounds like someone who has it all together!