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Starboy · Dec 28, 2004, 08:05 pm

What would be the point of "faith" if there were convincing evidence?

Starboy

Zarathustra · Dec 28, 2004, 08:07 pm

Belief that evidence teaches anything is faith in evidence...

Starboy · Dec 28, 2004, 09:17 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Zarathustra

Belief that evidence teaches anything is faith in evidence...

There is no need to have faith in evidence. You are completely free to ignore it. In fact I would be more than happy to take everything you own and I will do it right in front of your very eyes and you are perfectly free to completely discount it.

Starboy

Zarathustra · Dec 28, 2004, 09:22 pm

Or have you summarily murdered.

Starboy · Dec 28, 2004, 09:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Zarathustra

Or have you summarily murdered.

Oh my, why would you do that? You do not have to believe the evidence of your own senses.

Starboy

Zarathustra · Dec 28, 2004, 09:25 pm

Nope, certainly not.

Sucks for you that I have faith in their accuracy though.

Starboy · Dec 28, 2004, 09:28 pm

Why does it suck for me. You are the one with the hangup. Why you don't even have to believe that I took your stuff at all. You can just imagine that it is all there. Why you can imaging that you are in the mountains and the forest laughing at women or that you are in a cave. You can even imagine that I can say no wrong and that you would completely accept and believe everything I have written. After all why should you have faith in your senses?

Starboy

Zarathustra · Dec 28, 2004, 09:35 pm

I require new ears for new truths; this current troll who nips at my ankles hears only the heaviest words, that fall to his low level, in the mud. The loftier parts are apparently lost on those with a straighter posture, and languages more fit to communicate what is worthy of being said. This troll can only put words in my mouth like an ignorant fool who hears parts of conversations.

Translated- you are being an idiot as usual, and putting words in my mouth, or just making things up based on two or three words out of order- I will write big for you, kindergartener:

I DID NOT SAY ONE SHOULD NOT HAVE FAITH IN THEIR SENSES; I SAID, "Belief that evidence teaches anything is faith in evidence."

YOU INTERPRETED THIS, VERY CLEARLY CONTRARY TO THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE, AS, "DONT TRUST YOUR SENSES,", either out of a simple inadequate grasp of language and argument, or a malicious lawyer tactic that cleverly dodges points by running conversations off topic with abuse and neglect of an opponent's point.

In either case, my original analogy proves very accurate. Rather shake this blood-sucker from my boot then try and educate it. What cannot be elevated should only be stepped on.

Starboy · Dec 28, 2004, 09:38 pm

So where exactly do you get your evidence? In your dreams? Then no problem, dream as I have told you to.

Starboy

Zarathustra · Dec 28, 2004, 09:43 pm

What insanity! Some fools have bent low to whisper to this poor wretch, and teach it to emulate our language. Formerly this was called "responsibility" and "charity." Would that man could learn to call this "folly."

Just as only my heaviest words fall thundering to his low level, only his lightest and most disposed to dancing reach my own ears. Indeed, this must be why I have only yet seen his mouth move, and not yet heard a point.

Starboy · Dec 28, 2004, 09:45 pm

Z you are essentially talking to yourself and answering back and you say I am insane? That is funny.

Starboy

Zarathustra · Dec 28, 2004, 09:51 pm

Sir, you are intellectually dishonest and irresponsible, spiritually and psycholigically impoverished, and linguistically barren of any rudimentary grasp of knowledge if you cling either to that notion, or any which you have so far asserted against me. I do not think you are even serious anymore.

This leech is surely having fun with me. Verily, when the blood quickens with anger, the parasites eat best.

Starboy · Dec 28, 2004, 09:53 pm

And those are the good parts. But seriously why should anyone take you seriously?

Starboy

Zarathustra · Dec 28, 2004, 09:59 pm

The crawling things that carpet the ground and bite the feet of the travellers among them are no more fit to ask these men, "where are you going," then the travellers are fit to ask, "where have you been?" The traveller heads for horizons the small cannot yet behold- the small have wedged into crevices and pits too small for the traveller to even take notice of. And their ears are too small to hear our words, their minds are too small to hold our truths, and their bellies are not yet large enough to grasp our hunger.

Starboy · Dec 28, 2004, 10:00 pm

Z your doing it again. Get help.

Starboy

Zarathustra · Dec 28, 2004, 10:03 pm

How disappointing it must be for parasites who like their blood to mix with rage to have wasted their venom on a man who offers such pests only a hearty laugh and a crushing heel.

Starboy · Dec 28, 2004, 10:04 pm

Have a care Z. In your dreams this parisite may just suck your brain dry. Even so I am afraid I would starve to death.

Starboy

Scribbler1 · Dec 28, 2004, 11:59 pm

Guys, you want to take this to a new thread in "flame fest" or private messages. Please knock it off, okay? This is a 50 page, 14 month-old thread (some kind of record I think) and I have no desire to move it because of this rather peculiar argument.
Thanks.

tman_ndsu08 · Dec 29, 2004, 12:36 am

Quote:

Quote by: Sean

Yes, this is where I stand on this issue. I am agnostic. I just do not know. One side of me sees the ways religion has been used as a control mechanism. I mean its genius really-an immortal and invisible controller who will punish you infinitely if you disobey the rules. I think without the notion that there is god that poor people would not accept half of the things they are subjected to.

The other side of me sees the likelihood that something could have created all of this, but this is where I become agnostic-it is far too cloudy to start making all of these assumptions about a god's intentions, desires, etc.

Our universe seems so complex and yet it's so simple.

Perfection.

Is that something that can ever be created? Is being alive proof that nothing perfect can ever be made?

Starboy · Dec 29, 2004, 12:40 am

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

Our universe seems so complex and yet it's so simple.

Perfection.

Is that something that can ever be created? Is being alive proof that nothing perfect can ever be made?

Funny but if puddles were alive they would think the exact same thing about the holes they found themselves in. "My this hole fits me perfectly. It must have been made just for me."

Starboy

Dec 28, 2004, 08:07 pm	#482 (permalink) (top)
Zarathustra Man of Tradition Location: near Philadelphia Posts: 97	Belief that evidence teaches anything is faith in evidence... "Is not everything in flux now? Have not all bridges and railings fallen into the water? Who can still cling to "good" or "evil?" Woe to us! Hail to us! A thawing wind blows! Preach thus in every street, my brothers."-Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Dec 28, 2004, 09:22 pm	#484 (permalink) (top)
Zarathustra Man of Tradition Location: near Philadelphia Posts: 97	Or have you summarily murdered. "Is not everything in flux now? Have not all bridges and railings fallen into the water? Who can still cling to "good" or "evil?" Woe to us! Hail to us! A thawing wind blows! Preach thus in every street, my brothers."-Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Dec 28, 2004, 09:25 pm	#486 (permalink) (top)
Zarathustra Man of Tradition Location: near Philadelphia Posts: 97	Nope, certainly not. Sucks for you that I have faith in their accuracy though. "Is not everything in flux now? Have not all bridges and railings fallen into the water? Who can still cling to "good" or "evil?" Woe to us! Hail to us! A thawing wind blows! Preach thus in every street, my brothers."-Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Dec 28, 2004, 09:35 pm	#488 (permalink) (top)
Zarathustra Man of Tradition Location: near Philadelphia Posts: 97	I require new ears for new truths; this current troll who nips at my ankles hears only the heaviest words, that fall to his low level, in the mud. The loftier parts are apparently lost on those with a straighter posture, and languages more fit to communicate what is worthy of being said. This troll can only put words in my mouth like an ignorant fool who hears parts of conversations. Translated- you are being an idiot as usual, and putting words in my mouth, or just making things up based on two or three words out of order- I will write big for you, kindergartener: I DID NOT SAY ONE SHOULD NOT HAVE FAITH IN THEIR SENSES; I SAID, "Belief that evidence teaches anything is faith in evidence." YOU INTERPRETED THIS, VERY CLEARLY CONTRARY TO THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE, AS, "DONT TRUST YOUR SENSES,", either out of a simple inadequate grasp of language and argument, or a malicious lawyer tactic that cleverly dodges points by running conversations off topic with abuse and neglect of an opponent's point. In either case, my original analogy proves very accurate. Rather shake this blood-sucker from my boot then try and educate it. What cannot be elevated should only be stepped on. "Is not everything in flux now? Have not all bridges and railings fallen into the water? Who can still cling to "good" or "evil?" Woe to us! Hail to us! A thawing wind blows! Preach thus in every street, my brothers."-Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Dec 28, 2004, 09:43 pm	#490 (permalink) (top)
Zarathustra Man of Tradition Location: near Philadelphia Posts: 97	What insanity! Some fools have bent low to whisper to this poor wretch, and teach it to emulate our language. Formerly this was called "responsibility" and "charity." Would that man could learn to call this "folly." Just as only my heaviest words fall thundering to his low level, only his lightest and most disposed to dancing reach my own ears. Indeed, this must be why I have only yet seen his mouth move, and not yet heard a point. "Is not everything in flux now? Have not all bridges and railings fallen into the water? Who can still cling to "good" or "evil?" Woe to us! Hail to us! A thawing wind blows! Preach thus in every street, my brothers."-Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Dec 28, 2004, 08:05 pm	#481 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	What would be the point of "faith" if there were convincing evidence? Starboy

Dec 28, 2004, 09:28 pm	#487 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	Why does it suck for me. You are the one with the hangup. Why you don't even have to believe that I took your stuff at all. You can just imagine that it is all there. Why you can imaging that you are in the mountains and the forest laughing at women or that you are in a cave. You can even imagine that I can say no wrong and that you would completely accept and believe everything I have written. After all why should you have faith in your senses? Starboy

Dec 28, 2004, 09:38 pm	#489 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	So where exactly do you get your evidence? In your dreams? Then no problem, dream as I have told you to. Starboy

Dec 28, 2004, 09:45 pm	#491 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	Z you are essentially talking to yourself and answering back and you say I am insane? That is funny. Starboy Last edited by Starboy; Dec 29, 2004 at 12:01 am.

Dec 28, 2004, 09:51 pm	#492 (permalink) (top)
Zarathustra Man of Tradition Location: near Philadelphia Posts: 97	Sir, you are intellectually dishonest and irresponsible, spiritually and psycholigically impoverished, and linguistically barren of any rudimentary grasp of knowledge if you cling either to that notion, or any which you have so far asserted against me. I do not think you are even serious anymore. This leech is surely having fun with me. Verily, when the blood quickens with anger, the parasites eat best. "Is not everything in flux now? Have not all bridges and railings fallen into the water? Who can still cling to "good" or "evil?" Woe to us! Hail to us! A thawing wind blows! Preach thus in every street, my brothers."-Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Dec 28, 2004, 09:53 pm	#493 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	And those are the good parts. But seriously why should anyone take you seriously? Starboy

Dec 28, 2004, 09:59 pm	#494 (permalink) (top)
Zarathustra Man of Tradition Location: near Philadelphia Posts: 97	The crawling things that carpet the ground and bite the feet of the travellers among them are no more fit to ask these men, "where are you going," then the travellers are fit to ask, "where have you been?" The traveller heads for horizons the small cannot yet behold- the small have wedged into crevices and pits too small for the traveller to even take notice of. And their ears are too small to hear our words, their minds are too small to hold our truths, and their bellies are not yet large enough to grasp our hunger. "Is not everything in flux now? Have not all bridges and railings fallen into the water? Who can still cling to "good" or "evil?" Woe to us! Hail to us! A thawing wind blows! Preach thus in every street, my brothers."-Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Dec 28, 2004, 10:00 pm	#495 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	Z your doing it again. Get help. Starboy

Dec 28, 2004, 10:03 pm	#496 (permalink) (top)
Zarathustra Man of Tradition Location: near Philadelphia Posts: 97	How disappointing it must be for parasites who like their blood to mix with rage to have wasted their venom on a man who offers such pests only a hearty laugh and a crushing heel. "Is not everything in flux now? Have not all bridges and railings fallen into the water? Who can still cling to "good" or "evil?" Woe to us! Hail to us! A thawing wind blows! Preach thus in every street, my brothers."-Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Dec 28, 2004, 10:04 pm	#497 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	Have a care Z. In your dreams this parisite may just suck your brain dry. Even so I am afraid I would starve to death. Starboy

Dec 28, 2004, 11:59 pm	#498 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,837	Guys, you want to take this to a new thread in "flame fest" or private messages. Please knock it off, okay? This is a 50 page, 14 month-old thread (some kind of record I think) and I have no desire to move it because of this rather peculiar argument. Thanks.