Your Religion

[GeminiRising]

I'm not sure yet what it is I believe. I'll let you guys know one day when I decide.

[PhanthomOps]

GeminiRising:

Quote: "I'm not sure yet what it is I believe. I'll let you guys know one day when I decide."

Keep searching. If I may suggest, make a list of requirements that you demand must be established before you make your informed decision. However, as we are all human, perfection is impossible, so be open minded as I am sure your are.

Good fortune in your search!!!!!!! :) :)

[Pooeypants]

Not much point debating this, we'll all get to find out when we die.

[Gorgo]

Or not.

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by PhanthomOps, GeminiRising: Quote: "I'm not sure yet what it is I believe. I'll let you guys know one day when I decide." Keep searching. If I may suggest, make a list of requirements that you demand must be established before you make your informed decision. However, as we are all human, perfection is impossible, so be open minded as I am sure your are. Good fortune in your search!!!!!!! :) :)

From the human perpective I do not think it is realistic to make a list of requirements you demand must be established, and try and make an informed decision on such a biased view.

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by PhanthomOps, shunyadragon: Quote: "That was not what I meant. I simply proposed that when dealing with subjective evidence for the intangible like the nature of afterlife, that there may be more than one explanation based on your assumptions." Quote: "Most religions describe the aftelife as a journey to another world or worlds. The Judeo/ Christian view may also be interpreted in the same way, but that does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that you will return to this world." In-as-much as I have no absolute proof one way or the other, I am unable to speak with authority in this area, and realize that there are quite a number of theories on the subject. Therefore, I must conclude (not assume) based on my Christian Belief and the Word of God that an after life exists (Heaven & The Everlasting Lake of Fire which will contain Hell). And there is nothing in the Scriptures that lead me to believe that I would return to this world in one shape or another. Also,

Just a check, you may want to take a closer look at what the word Hell meant that is used in the Bible. The contemporary traditional belief is not very biblical.

Your conclusions are not likely based on alternatives, but like most folks, how you were raised. You were raised believing in a Christianity and you still do.

[PhanthomOps]

Pooeypants:
Quote: "Not much point debating this, we'll all get to find out when we die"

Yes, I have to admit that will be the final proof. However, I choose to have hope as there is so much crap going on in the world today.

Gorgo:
Quote: "Or not"

Pray tell what are you looking forward to?? Returning to the ooze, and becomming a one celled ameoba and evoluting into something new?

Shunnyadragon:
Quote: "From the human perpective I do not think it is realistic to make a list of requirements you demand must be established, and try and make an informed decision on such a biased view."

As we are only "Human", how do you suggest we approach the decision making process - regardless of the subject matter? As you have stated, you don't accept everything science states is fact - so how do you determine that which you will accept, and that which you will reject???

That is unless you are suggesting that we take the Word of God, the Bible literally.

"Hell" - "a place regarded in some religions as the abode of the dead or of the condemned sinners and devils, a place or state of misery or wickedness" Re: Reader's Digest Oxford Complete Wordfinder.

"Hell" Everlasting punishment Matthew 25:46, Preparedfor: the Devil and his angels Matthew 25:41, Wicked Revelations 21:8, the Beast and the false prophet Revelations 19:20, Worshippers of the beast Revelations 14:11, Rejectors of the Gospel Matthew 10:15

"Lake of Fire (final punishment)" where death and hades (hell) will be cast into Revelations 21:14

Quote: "You were raised believing in a Christianity and you still do."

I was raised basically in the Christian faith, but not fully indoctrinated or grounded in my faith. Subsequently, for quite a number of years I lived primarily as I wanted, sewed my wild oats, to some degree did what I wanted, sometimes good and sometimes bad. Eventually, I felt something tugging away at my conscience and emotions. At that time I was trying in my way to be a "good" Christian attending church, getting involved, etc, and couldn't find rest. I began to actively question what was happening, and I attended another church or two, and it was at this time that I realized although they were preaching the Word of God, they were holding back. A friend recommended attending a "Full Gospel" church which I started to do, and started really reading the Bible. As confused as I was, I made a list of what I felt were important requirements (a guide) for me to convinced one way or another in order to make a decision. Like Thomas, I wanted "proof". Eventually, my requirements were being met, and as I continued to read, I found that I was telling God what I wanted instead of asking what He wanted. At that point I realized that He had already shown me of His existance and the working of His Mighty Hand not only in my life, but of others as well.

I still am not perfect, and really don't want to be on earth, it would scare me. However, my faith and belief in God is unshakable, and will continue until my human death.

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by PhanthomOps, Shunnyadragon: Quote: "From the human perpective I do not think it is realistic to make a list of requirements you demand must be established, and try and make an informed decision on such a biased view." As we are only "Human", how do you suggest we approach the decision making process - regardless of the subject matter? As you have stated, you don't accept everything science states is fact - so how do you determine that which you will accept, and that which you will reject???

Of course, we are only human, but that is not the point. I believe we should approach the world with an open mind, explore and understand. With making demands and requirements, we find only what we want to find and that is likely far from reality.

This is a repeat of the problem of understanding science. Scientists do not take everything science states as fact. Everything in science is subject to change, based on research conducted according to the scientific methods. Skeptical critical evaluation and peer review subject all scientific knowledge, research and discoveries world wide. Falsification of previous research is common. The best example is Margaret Mead. Her research is no longer accepted and her conclusions are considered false.

That is unless you are suggesting that we take the Word of God, the Bible literally.

"Hell" - "a place regarded in some religions as the abode of the dead or of the condemned sinners and devils, a place or state of misery or wickedness" Re: Reader's Digest Oxford Complete Wordfinder. "Hell" Everlasting punishment Matthew 25:46, Preparedfor: the Devil and his angels Matthew 25:41, Wicked Revelations 21:8, the Beast and the false prophet Revelations 19:20, Worshippers of the beast Revelations 14:11, Rejectors of the Gospel Matthew 10:15 "Lake of Fire (final punishment)" where death and hades (hell) will be cast into Revelations 21:14

This view does not reflect current linquistic understanding of the words 'shaol' and 'gehenha' (sp?).

Quote: "You were raised believing in a Christianity and you still do."

I was raised basically in the Christian faith, but not fully indoctrinated or grounded in my faith. Subsequently, for quite a number of years I lived primarily as I wanted, sewed my wild oats, to some degree did what I wanted, sometimes good and sometimes bad. Eventually, I felt something tugging away at my conscience and emotions. At that time I was trying in my way to be a "good" Christian attending church, getting involved, etc, and couldn't find rest. I began to actively question what was happening, and I attended another church or two, and it was at this time that I realized although they were preaching the Word of God, they were holding back. A friend recommended attending a "Full Gospel" church which I started to do, and started really reading the Bible. As confused as I was, I made a list of what I felt were important requirements (a guide) for me to convinced one way or another in order to make a decision. Like Thomas, I wanted "proof". Eventually, my requirements were being met, and as I continued to read, I found that I was telling God what I wanted instead of asking what He wanted. At that point I realized that He had already shown me of His existance and the working of His Mighty Hand not only in my life, but of others as well. I still am not perfect, and really don't want to be on earth, it would scare me. However, my faith and belief in God is unshakable, and will continue until my human death.

Youthful wondering asside, your religious beliefs, like most, remain as indoctrinated as a child.

[PhanthomOps]

Shunyadragon:

"Scientists do not take everything science states as fact." I never said they did. With reference to the definitions of Hell and the Lake of Fire, I use my Bible as my primary guide and reference. "The Open Bible Red Letter Expanded Edition - The New King James Version - Nelson Press - 1982

"Youthful wondering asside, your religious beliefs, like most, remain as indoctrinated as a child."

Hey thank you for the complement!!!!!![/b]

[quote] "Assuredly, I say to you, whover does not receive the kingdom of God as a little shild will by no means enter it" Mark 10:15

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by PhanthomOps, Shunyadragon: "Scientists do not take everything science states as fact." I never said they did.

I think there have been numerous references where you and others who believe in a literal Bible have said this in various ways saying scientists take things as fact. In the many accusations of science being dogmatic.

This quote is from another thread.

Now, bottom line - I conclude that you accept most scientific "fact" as literal. Correct?? This is because you rely on and have faith in the scientific procedure(s) employed to establish these facts.

With reference to the definitions of Hell and the Lake of Fire, I use my Bible as my primary guide and reference. "The Open Bible Red Letter Expanded Edition - The New King James Version - Nelson Press - 1982

Symbolism, allegory and analogy in the Bible are lost to many Christians today. The original words used in the Bible and traditional Hebrew beliefs do not carry these meanings. The belief in a literal hell is primarilly a Greek, Roman and European belief, and the word 'Hell' are adopted by Christianity. The belief in a literal underworld is also a belief in Egyptian religion.

"Youthful wondering asside, your religious beliefs, like most, remain as indoctrinated as a child." Hey thank you for the complement!!!!!! "Assuredly, I say to you, whover does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it" Mark 10:15[/b]

I was simply stating the reality of the nature of belief, despite the rather romantic claims of people finding the trure religion. This also true of Islam, Judism and other religions.

[samsara15]

Hell is hard for me to believe in. Why would a God create us with certain tendencies, and then punish us for following our nature, the nature God gave us? What kind of God would that be? A sadistic one, at best.

[PhanthomOps]

Shunyadragon:

Agreed :) :)

[ruiner]

Hell is hard for me to believe in. Why would a God create us with certain tendencies, and then punish us for following our nature, the nature God gave us?

Because you are evil (hypothetically)? All the evil people must be clensed from the earth. The extermination will be a long process with much pain and suffering involved for them, but that is what they get for chooseing evil over good in the first place. God works through the deeds of man so it is our responsibility to begin the clensing.

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by ruiner, Hell is hard for me to believe in. Why would a God create us with certain tendencies, and then punish us for following our nature, the nature God gave us? Because you are evil (hypothetically)? All the evil people must be clensed from the earth. The extermination will be a long process with much pain and suffering involved for them, but that is what they get for chooseing evil over good in the first place. God works through the deeds of man so it is our responsibility to begin the clensing.

Sounds like a plot for one HELL of a movie. Can I play me going to hell with Mark Twain and all the other irreverent neat people that would not go to heaven if given the choice.

I think that should be cleansing.

[PhanthomOps]

ruiner:
Quote: "Hell is hard for me to believe in. Why would a God create us with certain tendencies, and then punish us for following our nature, the nature God gave us?"

God did not create us with the human nature we presently have. It wasn't until Adam & Eve ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that we ended up being punished for disobedience.

You know, you tell your child - No don't do that again because....... - and the child disobeys, and you in turn punish. Same principle.


Shunyadragon:
Quote: "Sounds like a plot for one HELL of a movie. Can I play me going to hell with Mark Twain and all the other irreverent neat people that would not go to heaven if given the choice. I think that should be cleansing."

You are one hell of an opponent - but irreverent, I don't see you that way. :) :)

[ruiner]

We all know what needs to be done, but I think we should all remain quiet until they are on the trains to the camps.

LOL!!!

wow. i don't believe in hell. there's some bad places but the conventional view of hell is sophomoric.

[PhanthomOps]

ruiner:
Quote: "We all know what needs to be done, but I think we should all remain quiet until they are on the trains to the camps."

Pray tell, what camps???

Bob_Dobbs:
Quote: "wow. i don't believe in hell. there's some bad places but the conventional view of hell is sophomoric."

Try this one - Mark 9:44, and Revelation 20:10,14

[ruiner]

The concentration camps of hell where all the sinners suffer pain for seeming eternity. People think abu ghraib was bad..hah! the torture in hell will be far worse than anything even the nazis were capable of.

Heaven will be a place of wonder and excitement, but in the background will be fear and sadness. Noone can speak out against the genocidal camps of hell in which friends and family of those in heaven are tortured daily. It will be no different to Nazi Germany. Protest is useless, submission to authority and "the state" is demanded.

[PatrickHenry]

ruiner, you got a warped, but funny, kind of black humor. Heh, heh.