Your Religion

[PhanthomOps]

Gorgo - Quote:
"Well, that's why I posted both articles, it doesn't matter to me. The Neo-Cons are using religion to keep themselves in power, that doesn't mean that none of them are Christian, some of them are. If you are the one that decides who can be a Christian and who can't be, that's up to you. Makes no difference. Just shows how it can be twisted into something to use power, like a lot of other things. That, in and of itself, does not make Christianity a bad thing."

You truely continue to amaze me!!!!! Thanks :) :)

Disinvented - Quote:
"I don't believe in any of these things. That's not to say that I refute their existence, I merely find no justification to believe in them due to lack of evidence. If I were to believe without such evidence, my belief would be a product of my mind. This is, indisputably, what all faith is: in the absence of proof, the mind paints a picture with romanticism as the medium and imagination as the canvas (with insecurity looking over its shoulder saying, "Eh! You're doing it all wrong, idiot."
If you've received such evidence, and are neither deceived nor delusional, then I certainly envy you (or perhaps ignorance is bliss?). However, all data I've examined points to you being delusional."

Thank you for your open mind, however, remember that humans are a reactionary creature and that emotions play a definite and important part as to how we, feel think and believe in.

Personally, my belief is not romanticism, nor is durived from a feeling of fear and insecurity, nor from blissful ignorance or delusion. I have personally witnessed and experienced the benefits of my faith, which by the way was also after a period of critically analyzing their claims.

But that is me, and you are you. I hope that someday you will experience that which is necessary to prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what you at this time do not believe is possible, is in fact true.

[NNY]

me im agnostic i believe in ALL possibilities

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever until the end of time...but he loves you.

For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to have sex. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism.

What was it that Adam ate that he wasn't supposed to eat? It wasn't just an apple -- it was the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. The subtle message? Get smart and I'll fuck you over -- sayeth the Lord. God is the smartest -- and he doesn't want any competion. Is this not an absolutely anti-intellectual religion?

Finally:
What if no one's watching?
What if when we're dead
We're just dead?
What if it's just us down here,
What if God is just an idea
Someone put in your head?

[PhanthomOps]

NNY,

Quote:
"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day."

If you intrepret "Religion" to be man's control of a spiritual concept in order to prove superior intellengce and have control over people - then I would agree with your use of the word convinced.

However, in-as-much as for those of us who believe, our personal faith and belief in God came from Him proving Himself to us in many ways, which alot of people choose not to believe.


Quote:
"And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever until the end of time...but he loves you."

Well any loving and concerned parent warns their children of the consequences of their actions. The reason for "Hell and the Lake of Fire" is that after a fashion all the correction may not be sufficient for the stiff-necked child, and in-as-much as there is an eternal future to be considered - you have to take responsibility for your actions or lack thereof.

Quote:
"For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to have sex. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us."

Hey, so be it - however, I fail to see death trembling with the Grim Reaper alive and well on planet Earth.

Quote:
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."

God's purposes were moulded before man, and it is man who has screwed up not God. In my personal life God is not a figment of my imagination for He has worked wonders and miracles. Thus, as He has proven Himself to me and my family by actions, we have no reason to doubt, and by faith take Him at His written word.

"Are you willing to seriously consider the fact that you are schizophrenic? I bet not (though, of course, you'll say that you are willing to do so). "

i would if i had other symptoms of schizophrenia, but i have not noticed any.

and who says you have not heard any convincing evidence for ghosts or esp? you haven't even looked and you assume that it is false. have you read anything that would even suggest such things are real? if you have simply not read the accounts or discount them based on nothing then your conclusions are not based on adequate proofs. you would have no solid grounds.

[PhanthomOps]

Bob_Dobbs

Way to go!!!!!!! :) :)

My My My - Someone is assuming - that's not right - you know what that does - right???

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by NNY, me im agnostic i believe in ALL possibilities Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever until the end of time...but he loves you. For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to have sex. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us. I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. What was it that Adam ate that he wasn't supposed to eat? It wasn't just an apple -- it was the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. The subtle message? Get smart and I'll fuck you over -- sayeth the Lord. God is the smartest -- and he doesn't want any competion. Is this not an absolutely anti-intellectual religion? Finally: What if no one's watching? What if when we're dead We're just dead? What if it's just us down here, What if God is just an idea Someone put in your head?

From the beliefs expressed in your post, you actually do not believe in ALLpossibilities.

Not all people believe that God is a man. There are other possibilities concerning God.

[PhanthomOps]

Shunyadragon:

Your reply to NNY
Quote: "From the beliefs expressed in your post, you actually do not believe in ALLpossibilities.

Not all people believe that God is a man. There are other possibilities concerning God."

Thanks, I missed that :) :)

[mrmufin]

Originally posted by George Carlin,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (George Carlin,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever until the end of time...but he loves you.[/b]

This is almost exactly how George Carlin begins his "Ten Commandments" routine.
<!--QuoteBegin-Frank Zappa,
What was it that Adam ate that he wasn't supposed to eat? It wasn't just an apple -- it was the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. The subtle message? Get smart and I'll fuck you over -- sayeth the Lord. God is the smartest -- and he doesn't want any competion. Is this not an absolutely anti-intellectual religion?[/quote]
This is very similar to some text from FZ's auto-bio, The Real Frank Zappa Book.

It's not cool to borrow stuff without citing the sources, NNY.

Regards,
mrmufin

[PhanthomOps]

mrmufin,

So very true, thank you

Gorgo,

Where are you??? :) :)

evidence for the existence of souls, afterlife, god, etc has been posted in the thread regarding reincarnation and NDEs.

[PhanthomOps]

Bob_Dobbs:

A Christian does not believe in reincarnation in the general sense.
We do not believe that we come back to earth in another form whether animal, insect or human.

[samsara15]

I was raised as a Presbyterian, but now have my own private beliefs.

[PhanthomOps]

samsara:

I was baptised Lutheran, but went to a Baptist Sunday School, years later became a member of a Lutheran Churce, and finally came to rest as a Born-Again Christian / Pentacostal. And no I don't swing from the chandalers or bounce off the walls.

What, if I can ask are your private beliefs???

" Bob_Dobbs:

A Christian does not believe in reincarnation in the general sense.
We do not believe that we come back to earth in another form whether animal, insect or human."

i am acquainted with christian beliefs. however, i feel the accounts i have read and the experiences i have had show that reincarnation is truth.

i was born a boy. then i became a christian of some sort at the church my parents attended. i decided to stop going when i was fifteen because i felt god was different, and i have practiced my own religious beliefs since.

[PhanthomOps]

Bob_Dobbs:

I understand, and at least you do have religious beliefs and believe in God.

I wish you all the best :) :)

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by Bob_Dobbs, " Bob_Dobbs: A Christian does not believe in reincarnation in the general sense. We do not believe that we come back to earth in another form whether animal, insect or human." i am acquainted with christian beliefs. however, i feel the accounts i have read and the experiences i have had show that reincarnation is truth. i was born a boy. then i became a christian of some sort at the church my parents attended. i decided to stop going when i was fifteen because i felt god was different, and i have practiced my own religious beliefs since.

Many modern believers cite memories of other lives as evidence for reincarnation and other journeys of the soul like out of body experiences. I would like to propose a different view of the evidence.

The soul is not limited in space and time as our physical body is, as the conventional view would dictate the logic that memories of persons that lived before would be evidence of that soul living in the past. The soul can be potentially intimately aware of events and people of the past as well as the future and other places outside the body without 'going anywhere' or 'having lived a life' in the past.

This belief better fits the Buddhist, Taoist and Baha'i view that the nature of the soul and the journey through many worlds cannot be defined from our logical point of view of the three dimensional and time frame as how view existence.

This does not say that reincarnation is false, but it opens up the alternatives to the nature of the human soul and the journey.

[PhanthomOps]

Shunyadragon:

Hey, General George S. Patton believed he was reincarnated, as I am aware that many thousands believe also.

I must therefore conclude that the absence of proof, is not proof of absence.

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by PhanthomOps, Shunyadragon: Hey, General George S. Patton believed he was reincarnated, as I am aware that many thousands believe also. I must therefore conclude that the absence of proof, is not proof of absence.

That was not what I meant. I simply proposed that when dealing with subjective evidence for the intangible like the nature of afterlife, that there may be more than one explanation based on your assumptions.

[shunyadragon]

Most religions describe the aftelife as a journey to another world or worlds.
The Judeo/ Christian view may also be interpreted in the same way, but that does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that you will return to this world.

[PhanthomOps]

shunyadragon:

Quote: "That was not what I meant. I simply proposed that when dealing with subjective evidence for the intangible like the nature of afterlife, that there may be more than one explanation based on your assumptions."

Quote: "Most religions describe the aftelife as a journey to another world or worlds.
The Judeo/ Christian view may also be interpreted in the same way, but that does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that you will return to this world."

In-as-much as I have no absolute proof one way or the other, I am unable to speak with authority in this area, and realize that there are quite a number of theories on the subject.

Therefore, I must conclude (not assume) based on my Christian Belief and the Word of God that an after life exists (Heaven & The Everlasting Lake of Fire which will contain Hell). And there is nothing in the Scriptures that lead me to believe that I would return to this world in one shape or another. Also,