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Mr.Vicchio · Apr 30, 2004, 08:49 pm

There was a great book written about the effects of unchecked behavior. If a small portion of a group is allowed to do what it wants, unchecked, eventually the situation will spin out of control and the damage will be wide spread.

Take Michael Jacko Jackson as case in point. Here is a man who was never taken aside, and told he was going over the edge.. now he faces HOW many serious felony charges? Reguardless if he is innocent or not, his odd behavior is to blame for his being in this mess. Had he been stopped say.. 15-20 years ago, by a good friend or family member... Think of the difference in his life, and those caught up in the disaster its heading towards!

Now take American Society as a whole. The extereme elements, both left and right have gone.. over the edge int he last 15 years. In the 90's it was the religious right seen as the big threat, trying to force its views on the country. That is wrong.

Now it is the left wing of the DNC thats going full steam, but sadly, no one is stopping them. behind the mask of secular thinking, the once clear definition of right and wrong is not just blurred but rapidly fading into memory.

Gay power (nothing so much against gays but the unchecked militant gay movement is rather extreme) the recent Womens March for Life was.. a disgusting display of vulgarity posing as a march for rights (and a John Kerry pep rally.. ) I mean, if half the stories of the march are true, and only half the extreme comments were actually in context... then that march was obscenity en masse. These are two examples of unchecked grey thinking. Toss out the facts, toss out any standards of right and wrong, and do whatever you want too is the message these two examples are screaming... thats a dangerous path to take.

Now look at the political situation. Its gone. There is very little honesty,a nd where there IS honesty, its taken as being spin or dishonesty because of the extremes. The Dems unprecidented use of filibusters of Judical Nominations, the unfair and unwarrented character assassinations of the nominees are just one example of this. Sen. Ted Kennedy (D Mass.) made a speech yesterday that was... in another time the DNC would have taken him behind the woodshed and spanked him.

There has to be right and wrong, clear lines. And those lines have to have moral backings. We can debate where the lines should be drawn, and just exactly how we arrive at the moral backing for said lines, but the grey world the left is trying to foist upon America has gone unchecked for too long. Right and wrong, good and evil have to be set, or we will collapse in an orgy of self destruction.

Its time to take them aside, and give them a spanking before we all get hurt.

BTW in case you were wondering, the book I was reffering too was Lord of the Flies. You shoudl read the original if you haven't the pleasure of doing so.

Impenitent · May 1, 2004, 12:50 am

unchecked behaviour...

it takes power to check it...

you can debate all day like piggy did...

might makes right

floridian · May 6, 2004, 02:02 pm

Its not clear that a few honest words from friends would have stopped Michael Jackson or any mentally ill person from behaving the way they do.

The religious right didn't dissappear after the 90s - they got their man elected president in 2000. Now we have John Ashcroft covering the cleavage on the Justice Dept. statues, and crusading to clean up the air waves ... our own version of the committees for the prevention of vice and promotion of virtue that have worked so well in Saudi Arabia and Taleban Afghanistan.

Not sure about this bugaboo of the radical gay rights movements that you invoked. There are three lesbians (that I know of) at my workplace, and their 'extreme' positions include a desire to have equal legal rights and a measure of acceptance. Maybe there are radical extremists somewhere out there, but I think the black/white right wingers would be opposed to even the average or moderate gay persons agenda.

I didn't follow the Women's march on Washington, but am a little puzzled that you want to give those 750,000 people 'a spanking' for excercising their rights to assemble and speak. If you disagree with something, then disagree. But you didn't even explain what you disagree with - you just called it vulgar and disgusting.

If you think that the Democrats have made unprecedented use of fillibuster to block court nominees, then you are ignorant. Take a course in legislative history!! Or change the Constitution. The rules are set up to keep some balance - winning 49.xx percent of the votes in November doesn't give a party to do what ever they like - some things still have to go through Congress and require the assent of the minority.

Right wing, fundamentalists tend to see things in absolute, literal, black and white terms. Unless that becomes inconvienent for achieving other goals. Most disgusting is the doctrine of 'ethical evilism' that pervades the right wing in the US. Ethical evilism is the idea that evil is acceptable or desirable, as long as that evil is in the service of good. This is the doctrine rejected by Gandhi and ML King, who argued that means cannot be separated from the ends.

The pervasiveness of ethical evilism is demonstrated by the popularity of G. Gordon Liddy and Oliver North. Liddy is a convicted felon who burglarized the offices of the Democratic Party for the administration of Richard Nixon. Breaking the law is wrong, but Nixon's crew felt that it was ok to break a few laws to promote their ideology, which they saw as a greater good. Liddy would have become the most popular voice on talk radio, but he uses too many big words and long sentences.

Oliver North is part of the crew that subverted the constitution to sell weapons to terrorists in Iran to raise money to help terrorists in Nicaragua. (The US government printed and distributed a manual that showed insurgents in Nicaragua how to sabotage economic targets and conduct assassinations - but reasoned that it wasn't terrorism because it was in the service of good). North's conviction was overturned because it was partly based on testimony he gave to a congressional investigation under immunity. But there is no doubt he was guilty of subverting the constituition or promoting terrorism. Today, North is a correspondent for Fox television news.

Nobody in the right wing cared about Saddam's gassing of the Kurds when he did it. Rumsfeld went to Iraq and shook his hand, and provided him with military aid knowing what he did. After all, Saddam was an ally against Iran. (And pragmatic ethical evilists know that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend.") It was only when he invaded Kuwait that his evil became a problem.

Nobody on the right cared about death squads in El Salvador or Guatemala or Chile when hundreds of thousands there 'dissappeared.' After all, they were on our side in the fight against communism, so they must be good guys. It wasn't until American nuns visiting there were raped and murdered that the right saw there might be a problem.

"Blowback" is a term invented by ethical evilists to describe the fact that they are sometimes unable to control the evil they unleashed. I would argue that blowback is not a rare occurence; it is the norm.

The problem with ethical evilism is that what may start out as a little evil can easily grow.

Apr 30, 2004, 08:49 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	There was a great book written about the effects of unchecked behavior. If a small portion of a group is allowed to do what it wants, unchecked, eventually the situation will spin out of control and the damage will be wide spread. Take Michael Jacko Jackson as case in point. Here is a man who was never taken aside, and told he was going over the edge.. now he faces HOW many serious felony charges? Reguardless if he is innocent or not, his odd behavior is to blame for his being in this mess. Had he been stopped say.. 15-20 years ago, by a good friend or family member... Think of the difference in his life, and those caught up in the disaster its heading towards! Now take American Society as a whole. The extereme elements, both left and right have gone.. over the edge int he last 15 years. In the 90's it was the religious right seen as the big threat, trying to force its views on the country. That is wrong. Now it is the left wing of the DNC thats going full steam, but sadly, no one is stopping them. behind the mask of secular thinking, the once clear definition of right and wrong is not just blurred but rapidly fading into memory. Gay power (nothing so much against gays but the unchecked militant gay movement is rather extreme) the recent Womens March for Life was.. a disgusting display of vulgarity posing as a march for rights (and a John Kerry pep rally.. ) I mean, if half the stories of the march are true, and only half the extreme comments were actually in context... then that march was obscenity en masse. These are two examples of unchecked grey thinking. Toss out the facts, toss out any standards of right and wrong, and do whatever you want too is the message these two examples are screaming... thats a dangerous path to take. Now look at the political situation. Its gone. There is very little honesty,a nd where there IS honesty, its taken as being spin or dishonesty because of the extremes. The Dems unprecidented use of filibusters of Judical Nominations, the unfair and unwarrented character assassinations of the nominees are just one example of this. Sen. Ted Kennedy (D Mass.) made a speech yesterday that was... in another time the DNC would have taken him behind the woodshed and spanked him. There has to be right and wrong, clear lines. And those lines have to have moral backings. We can debate where the lines should be drawn, and just exactly how we arrive at the moral backing for said lines, but the grey world the left is trying to foist upon America has gone unchecked for too long. Right and wrong, good and evil have to be set, or we will collapse in an orgy of self destruction. Its time to take them aside, and give them a spanking before we all get hurt. BTW in case you were wondering, the book I was reffering too was Lord of the Flies. You shoudl read the original if you haven't the pleasure of doing so. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 1, 2004, 12:50 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	unchecked behaviour... it takes power to check it... you can debate all day like piggy did... might makes right "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

May 6, 2004, 02:02 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
floridian Molten Ash Posts: 84	Its not clear that a few honest words from friends would have stopped Michael Jackson or any mentally ill person from behaving the way they do. The religious right didn't dissappear after the 90s - they got their man elected president in 2000. Now we have John Ashcroft covering the cleavage on the Justice Dept. statues, and crusading to clean up the air waves ... our own version of the committees for the prevention of vice and promotion of virtue that have worked so well in Saudi Arabia and Taleban Afghanistan. Not sure about this bugaboo of the radical gay rights movements that you invoked. There are three lesbians (that I know of) at my workplace, and their 'extreme' positions include a desire to have equal legal rights and a measure of acceptance. Maybe there are radical extremists somewhere out there, but I think the black/white right wingers would be opposed to even the average or moderate gay persons agenda. I didn't follow the Women's march on Washington, but am a little puzzled that you want to give those 750,000 people 'a spanking' for excercising their rights to assemble and speak. If you disagree with something, then disagree. But you didn't even explain what you disagree with - you just called it vulgar and disgusting. If you think that the Democrats have made unprecedented use of fillibuster to block court nominees, then you are ignorant. Take a course in legislative history!! Or change the Constitution. The rules are set up to keep some balance - winning 49.xx percent of the votes in November doesn't give a party to do what ever they like - some things still have to go through Congress and require the assent of the minority. Right wing, fundamentalists tend to see things in absolute, literal, black and white terms. Unless that becomes inconvienent for achieving other goals. Most disgusting is the doctrine of 'ethical evilism' that pervades the right wing in the US. Ethical evilism is the idea that evil is acceptable or desirable, as long as that evil is in the service of good. This is the doctrine rejected by Gandhi and ML King, who argued that means cannot be separated from the ends. The pervasiveness of ethical evilism is demonstrated by the popularity of G. Gordon Liddy and Oliver North. Liddy is a convicted felon who burglarized the offices of the Democratic Party for the administration of Richard Nixon. Breaking the law is wrong, but Nixon's crew felt that it was ok to break a few laws to promote their ideology, which they saw as a greater good. Liddy would have become the most popular voice on talk radio, but he uses too many big words and long sentences. Oliver North is part of the crew that subverted the constitution to sell weapons to terrorists in Iran to raise money to help terrorists in Nicaragua. (The US government printed and distributed a manual that showed insurgents in Nicaragua how to sabotage economic targets and conduct assassinations - but reasoned that it wasn't terrorism because it was in the service of good). North's conviction was overturned because it was partly based on testimony he gave to a congressional investigation under immunity. But there is no doubt he was guilty of subverting the constituition or promoting terrorism. Today, North is a correspondent for Fox television news. Nobody in the right wing cared about Saddam's gassing of the Kurds when he did it. Rumsfeld went to Iraq and shook his hand, and provided him with military aid knowing what he did. After all, Saddam was an ally against Iran. (And pragmatic ethical evilists know that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend.") It was only when he invaded Kuwait that his evil became a problem. Nobody on the right cared about death squads in El Salvador or Guatemala or Chile when hundreds of thousands there 'dissappeared.' After all, they were on our side in the fight against communism, so they must be good guys. It wasn't until American nuns visiting there were raped and murdered that the right saw there might be a problem. "Blowback" is a term invented by ethical evilists to describe the fact that they are sometimes unable to control the evil they unleashed. I would argue that blowback is not a rare occurence; it is the norm. The problem with ethical evilism is that what may start out as a little evil can easily grow.