Proof of God or a Hoax?

[Red_Emma]

Hi everyone, im going to start posting on volconvo again. I was recently brought to a program by a friend where i live (Baton Rouge, Louisiana, US). Its called "Final Exit" and it works out like this...they get a bunch of high school kids (im only 15..err 16 as of april 13th) to come to a abandoned warehouse this company rents out. Then they take you on a tour showing how teens lives are destroyed because of not holding high morals. Well they do a little more than this, they have vivid scene of a abortion were you get blood splashed on you, domestic scenes were you see the husband beat the wife and throw the bear cans at the wall, drunk driving accident were the bodies fall out of the car lifeless when a lone survivor opens it etc.etc. And they have a narrator to walk you through reminding you how satan has infiltrated these young lives. So in my opinion it is a scare you into accepting christianity program. At the end, right before you exit they assign you to a person who sits you down and talks to you about religion. So i got into this big debate with the guy that was assigned to me until it closed around 12 at night. Ive been everything from a nihilist to a humanistic naturalist, but since about 6th grade i havent been a christian. I know my facts fairly well and the hoax's that are trying to prove the christian philosiphy too (exmp: Siberian Oil Drillers drilled a hole so deep they heard screams coming from the earth!...lol..) Well the guy that was assigned to me brought up this interesting fact when i started bringing up the Piso family. He said that Nasa was going to launch a satellite and they started checking the orbit times and such for the launch. They found 2 periods of 24 hours (or maybe it was 24 hours all togehter but had been done 2 times) missing from the orbit. Well he then presented to me that there are 2 times in the bible that time was stopped completely. He was fairly vague with details, but i was just wondering if anyone has heard anything else about this? Thank you for your time.

[5010]

It's an uban legend.

Here's the same scoop from snopes.

I have never heard anything like this missing time phenomenon mentioned in the bible, and believe me, if it was there, I'm sure someone would have mentioned it to me by now. I have had many conversations with ultra-religious types. If NASA had any "missing time" in their event logs, a much better explanation would be an equipment failure of some sort. You could simply get online and ask NASA if they've actually had this problem, and if so, did they find out the cause.
It's very common for zealots, of any kind not just Christians, to jump to wild conclusions when they hear of these types of things. I did hear that lost time is also common when discussing UFO's and alien abductions.
Finally, a proponent of the theory that a whole other world exist beneath the planets surface exists, accessible only through a hole somewhere near the north pole, found a plant embedded in ice waaaay up north in the arctic. Since this type of plant was indiginous to warmer climates, it should not have been way up north like it was. Of Course the ONLY, thats OOOOONNNNNLLLLY, explanation for this was that there is this subsurface world and this plant came from there.
How could anybody argue with incontrovertible proof like that???

Stick to your guns Red and enjoy high school. BTW how did you wind up going through this course?

[Red_Emma]

Thank you all so much for the information. I guess i was fooled again lol. My friend, i suppose some comments i made infront of him, led him to beleive i was something other than christian, so he decided to bring me to this so I could see it with him. Here is a link to a article on it, and they do have a website, but its not showing up on the first 2 or 3 pages of google, so if your that interested you might want to check it out. http://www.lagoodnews.com/index.php/%20use.../view/full/469/

[Paul]

Proof of God or a Hoax? Proof of God will come when mankind faces certain imminent annihilation. A promise has been made ---> "--- except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." (Matt. 24:22 ) Only than there will be the Proof of God.

Peace be with you, Paul

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Is th National Enquirer your towns newspaper?

[leo]

[Please read the Volconvo rules as summarized in the etiquette.]

[Automatic Nate]

I didn't even have to read the thread to call "hoax." God or not-God is not stuff to be proven or disproven.

And how big is a "bear can"?

[mrmufin]

Originally posted by Red_Emma,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Red_Emma,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Hi everyone, im going to start posting on volconvo again. I was recently brought to a program by a friend where i live (Baton Rouge, Louisiana, US). Its called "Final Exit" and it works out like this...they get a bunch of high school kids (im only 15..err 16 as of april 13th) to come to a abandoned warehouse this company rents out. Then they take you on a tour showing how teens lives are destroyed because of not holding high morals.[/b]

Is it possible that teens with "high morals" could still make crappy decisions which destroy their lives?

Originally posted by Red_Emma,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Red_Emma,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Well they do a little more than this, they have vivid scene of a abortion were you get blood splashed on you, domestic scenes were you see the husband beat the wife and throw the bear cans at the wall, drunk driving accident were the bodies fall out of the car lifeless when a lone survivor opens it etc.etc. And they have a narrator to walk you through reminding you how satan has infiltrated these young lives. So in my opinion it is a scare you into accepting christianity program. [/b]

Because no Christian has ever had an abortion, an abusive spouse, or a DWI conviction, right? And the program comes with a money back guarantee?

Originally posted by Red_Emma, At the end, right before you exit they assign you to a person who sits you down and talks to you about religion. So i got into this big debate with the guy that was assigned to me until it closed around 12 at night.

Was the "debate" kinda like trying to throw a potato chip really far?

Originally posted by Red_Emma, Ive been everything from a nihilist to a humanistic naturalist, but since about 6th grade i havent been a christian. I know my facts fairly well and the hoax's that are trying to prove the christian philosiphy too (exmp: Siberian Oil Drillers drilled a hole so deep they heard screams coming from the earth!...lol..)

While glossing right over the stuff about a talking serpent, a 600 year old man building an ark of gopher wood which withstood rainfall at a rate of approximately 15 feet per hour, and a dead body rising? Remember, with God any thing is possible...



<!--QuoteBegin-Red_Emma,@
Well the guy that was assigned to me brought up this interesting fact when i started bringing up the Piso family. He said that Nasa was going to launch a satellite and they started checking the orbit times and such for the launch. They found 2 periods of 24 hours (or maybe it was 24 hours all togehter but had been done 2 times) missing from the orbit. Well he then presented to me that there are 2 times in the bible that time was stopped completely. He was fairly vague with details, [/quote]

Have you attempted to corroborate this claim with sources at NASA? My well-calibrated skeptometer is pulling considerable deflection from that claim...

<!--QuoteBegin-Red_Emma,
but i was just wondering if anyone has heard anything else about this? Thank you for your time.[/quote]

Well... to address your title question, "Proof of God or a Hoax?", my money's riding on the hoax option. Proof, as they say, is for mathematics and alcohol; everything else rests on the credibility of the evidence. Time is a coordinate function, requiring objects and motion, and apparently not a device which gets switched on and off at the whim of god(s). Consider: if everything in the Universe expanded to fifteen times its "normal" size, we'd never notice the expansion. Likewise, if everything in the Universe suddenly stopped - for 24 hours or 24 centuries - we'd never notice the pause. Thus the pause would be detectable only if some things stopped, but two periods of or totalling 24 hours "missing" from the orbit (whatever that's supposed to mean) is a far cry from proof of any god. If it did constitute clear and convincing evidence of a god, do you wonder why NASA officials never held a press conference informing the public of their findings?


Regards,
mrmufin

[Occam]

Red-emma, I congratulate you on being able to withstand that kind of emotional onslaught at fifteen (assuming that you went through this before April). You've probably already done it, but if you haven't you may want to go to the Volcanvo home page and use the link to logical fallacies. Download it, print it out and quote it back to them whenever you see them pulling one of these.

One of the most used techniques by "true believers" of any stripe, next after emotional shock, is the swarm of dramatic lies. The idea is that unless everyone in the audience tracks them down and refutes them, at least some of the listeners will believe them. And, it's much more work to prove them false than it is to spout them.

A variation of this is making statements in areas beyond the knowledge of the audience. Telling teen-agers about quirks in orbital mechanics or astro-physics is really cheating. They would never even try to do that among a group of PhDs in the field because they would be instantly nailed.

Congratulations again, and keep up the good work.

Occam

[Onyx Six]

[Please read the Volconvo rules as summarized in the etiquette.]

[Occam]

Interesting. Onyx-6, could you identify the specific infractions you feel occurred?

Occam

[Jet]

Occam, if you're referring to the [Please read...] then AFAIK he infringed on the rules and had his post emptied by a moderator.

[Occam]

Thanks, Jet. I misunderstood and thought that the poster was implying that my post was improperly stated.

Occam

[Occam]

OK, moderator. How do I delete a post made in error? I apparently didn't realize the first submission went through, submitted it again then couldn't delete the second one.

Occam

[Paul]

GOD? ---> When an individual says God is a Hoax, what's this person's definition, or whose definition, of what or who God is? I and many others in the world may agree that God is a Hoax depending on definition of what or who God is. ---> GOD?

What's the purpose of this question from 'GreatWyrm of Babylon' Posted: 04-28-2004 11:15 PM "Is the National Enquirer your towns newspaper?"

Peace be with you, Paul