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Apr 28, 2004, 07:10 am

Inspired by George Bush and his talks with God and of God choosing him and instructing him in who to attack, I was moved to see if I too could speak with God.

Now, to my amazement, God answered me when I called and we had an interesting little chat. I asked God what it was like talking to George Bush. God went onto explain that George Bush is a delusional who likes to think he talks to God but really only suffers from auditory hallucinations or simply put, George hears voices in his head.

God also told me that we are all, that is believers and non believers, his children and that we should not make war on one another and that George Bush is simply a doer of evil and certainly not one of God's chosen prophets or one who knows the will of God.

So, who is lying, George Bush, God, or me?

Gorgo · Apr 28, 2004, 09:14 am

I think all three of you are lying!

white rice · Apr 28, 2004, 10:58 am

I didn't know Bush's God was the Carlyle Group....

moondusk · Apr 28, 2004, 11:29 am

A nice interpretation. :)

Anyway I'd agree that-

Quote:

"we are all, that is believers and non believers , his children and that we should not make war on one another"

PatrickHenry · Apr 28, 2004, 01:03 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PeterWolf,
Inspired by George Bush and his talks with God and of God choosing him and instructing him in who to attack, I was moved to see if I too could speak with God.

Now, to my amazement, God answered me when I called and we had an interesting little chat. I asked God what it was like talking to George Bush. God went onto explain that George Bush is a delusional who likes to think he talks to God but really only suffers from auditory hallucinations or simply put, George hears voices in his head.

God also told me that we are all, that is believers and non believers, his children and that we should not make war on one another and that George Bush is simply a doer of evil and certainly not one of God's chosen prophets or one who knows the will of God.

So, who is lying, George Bush, God, or me?

Unsure of your sincerity PW, but I have had a similar experience to yours. The obvious conflicts in W's existence show him for a fraud. Seriously, I think his "voices" are those of the spiritual enemy of mankind...

Gorgo · Apr 28, 2004, 01:25 pm

Not...MARTHA STEWART!!???

Quote:

Originally posted by PatrickHenry,
I think his "voices" are those of the spiritual enemy of mankind...

mrmufin · Apr 28, 2004, 03:12 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PeterWolf,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PeterWolf,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Inspired by George Bush and his talks with God and of God choosing him and instructing him in who to attack, I was moved to see if I too could speak with God.[/b]

A few months back I challenged God to a game of chess. I decided I would become a loyal and triumphant believer and devoted spirit to serve His will, on a few minor conditions: 1) I play white; 2) any win must be decisive (if you're really omniscient, Buddy, you should be able to clean my clock in chess); 3) Black must open within 72 hours of White's open.

Guess who never showed up?

Quote:

Originally posted by PeterWolf,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PeterWolf,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Now, to my amazement, God answered me when I called and we had an interesting little chat. I asked God what it was like talking to George Bush. God went onto explain that George Bush is a delusional who likes to think he talks to God but really only suffers from auditory hallucinations or simply put, George hears voices in his head.[/b]

How could you, or Dubya, be certain that the message from God wasn't intercepted and altered en route by Loki?

I sometimes get a weird, uneasy feeling that the President has probably taken more drugs than me.

<!--QuoteBegin-PeterWolf,@
God also told me that we are all, that is believers and non believers, his children and that we should not make war on one another and that George Bush is simply a doer of evil and certainly not one of God's chosen prophets or one who knows the will of God.[/quote]

Or perhaps God is so damn busy with the whole Universal expansion project that He doesn't really give a rat's wrinkled rectum about any of us? I think the 80 or so years of any human life is just a few nanoseconds on God's watch.

<!--QuoteBegin-PeterWolf,
So, who is lying, George Bush, God, or me?[/quote]

You're probably "lying to make a point", Bush is probably lying, but not even aware of it, and God doesn't show up for chess at the mufin residence.

Regards,
mrmufin

Apr 28, 2004, 06:01 pm

In reality, I can't claim that I talk to God, not because I don't believe it possible. In simple terms, because I seriously doubt I would recognise the voice of God.

This post was a simple exericse in a Bush tactic. Make a claim that is literaly impossible to prove or disprove. Which is why I believe Bush invokes God, that and the populist nature of doing so.

There's a Spanish train that runs between
Quadalquivir and old Seville,
And at dead of night the whistle blows,
and people hear she's running still...

And then they hush their children back to sleep,
Lock the doors, upstairs they creep,
For it is said that the souls of the dead
Fill that train ten thousand deep!!

Well a railwayman lay dying with his people by his side,
His family were crying, knelt in prayer before he died,
But above his head just a-waiting for the dead,
Was the Devil with a twinkle in his eye,
"Well God's not around and look what I've found,
this one's mine!!"

Just then the Lord himself appeared in a blinding flash of light,
And shouted at the devil, "Get thee hence to endless night!!"
But the Devil just grinned and said "I may have sinned,
But there's no need to push me around,
I got him first so you can do your worst,
He's going underground!!"

"But I think I'll give you one more chance"
said the Devil with a smile,
"So throw away that stupid lance,
It's really not your style",
"Joker is the name, Poker is the game,
we'll play right here on this bed,
And then we'll bet for the biggest stakes yet,
the souls of the dead!!"

And I said "Look out, Lord, he's going to win,
The sun is down and the night is riding in,
That train is dead on time, many souls are on the line,
Oh Lord, he's going to win!.."

Well the railwayman he cut the cards
and he dealt them each a hand of five
And for the Lord he was praying hard
or that train he'd have to drive...
Well the Devil he had three aces and a king,
and the Lord, he was running for a straight,
he had the queen and the knave and the nine and ten of spades,
All he needed was the eight...

And then the Lord he called for one more card,
but he drew the diamond eight,
And the Devil said to the son of God,
"I believe you've got it straight,
So deal me one for the time has come
to see who'll be the king of this place,
But as he spoke, from beneath his cloak,
he slipped another ace...

Ten thousand souls was the opening bid,
and it soon went up to fifty-nine,
but the Lord didn't see what the Devil did,
and he said "that suits me fine",
"I'll raise you high to hundred and five,
and forever put an end to your sin",
But the Devil let out a mighty shout, "My hand wins!!"

And I said "Lord, oh Lord, you let him win,
The sun is down and the night is riding in,
That train is dead on time, many souls are on the line,
Oh Lord, don't let him win..."

Well that Spanish train still runs between,
Quadalquivir and old Seville,
And at dead of night the whistle blows,
And people hear she's running still...
And far away in some recess
The Lord and the Devil are now playing chess,
The Devil still cheats and wins more souls,
And as for the Lord, well, he's just doing his best...

And I said "Lord, oh Lord, you've got to win,
The Sun is down and the night is riding in,
That train is still on time, Oh my soul is on the line,
Oh Lord, you've got to win..."

"Spanish Train" by Chris de Burgh

PhanthomOps · May 1, 2004, 02:36 pm

Okay people - are we feeling frisky just to see how far afield we can go? Which leg do you want to pull on next??

PatrickHenry - I am surprised at you

God speaks - Deuteronomy 6:24, John 10:3-4,37, Acts 22:7
God hears - John 10:27, 2 Chronicles 7:14, Luke 1:13

God does - John 15:7, Proverbs 3:5-6, Isaiah 40:31,

If anyone of you know a Veteran who professed being an Atheist, and was in the front lines of devasting combat - upon investigation you will find out that they cried out to God - repented - God heard them and answered by saving their life. I am a personal witness to 5 such events !!!!!

It is extremely difficult for a non-believer, an intellectual, etc, to accept by faith what many of us accept and receive by faith. You see through a glass darkly, have tunnel vision, and must in no uncertain cirmstances have absolute proof. However, when it's offered to you, you are so full of yourself and human intellegence you become blinded, so unwilling to accept it (because you can't make sense of it), and can't see the forest for the trees.

"Assuredly, I say to you, whosoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it" Mark 10:15

Think how a child acts, taking by faith that their parent(s) will give them shelter, food, clothing, make them happy, and protect them.

Well, since it seems like this thread is being treated like a joke, I'll say goodby.

Occam · May 1, 2004, 04:16 pm

Well, since you are stating what are obviously your opinions as incontrovertible fact. I shall use the same grammatic structure. And since you use the ad hominum critical thinking fallacy I'll accept that as one of the ground rules, too.

First, the bible is a book of mythology and personal experiences written by various humans with various personal agendas a few thousand years ago. Nothing quoted from it has ANY special relevence because of its source.

Second, I've spoken with a number of atheists who served in the front lines during combat and were facing imminent death. they said that only those who had strong religous inculcation as children reverted to prayer - those who were lifelong atheists didn't waste their time and effort even thinking about any god but attended to the job of fighting and protecting the lives of their unit.

Similarly, I'm sure that a great many soldiers facing death did call out to be saved by god and they died. How come, in your story, god only saved the lives of atheists who called out? Sort of makes him seem fickle, doesn't it?

And why do I seriously doubt your statement that you were ". . . a personal witness to 5 such events !!!!!"? This is a typical ploy of people who want to shore up their arguments by claiming something totally implausible and unverifiable, by saying they were there.

As a non-believer, I haven't found it at all difficult to have faith. I have faith in the natural origin of the universe and its sequelae. I am in awe of the beauty and complexity of existence, I love humanity and all living things, and I care for them as well as I can. I realize that many things are presently or possibly permanently beyond my comprehension, but that isn't the slightest reason for me to tack on some fairy-tale explanation. God is an unnecessary complication that just gets in the way of our quest for understanding. Only those who have been blinded to reason during childhood or those who have less functional mental apparatus see this metaphysical apparition.

And finally, I don't think it's a joke whenever anyone indicates they have had a conversation with god. I think it's very serious and I hope they'll get treatment.

Occam

PhanthomOps · May 1, 2004, 07:24 pm

Occam: Nice comeback. Weak but nice.

Let me start with #2 -

I did not mean to give the impression that all Atheists would react in this manner - this was wrong,

HOWEVER, as a Disabled American Veteran (70& USAF), with a Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars and 2 Purple Hearts - I WAS THERE 111111111111111111 Perhaps many Athiests did not convert on the spot, or ever. That point accepted, I am quite sure that many (not all) did cry out for God's help under the circumstances.

I take very strong issue with you concerning your remark indicating that I am lying, and attempting to use a ploy. I have nothing to prove, no macho image to protect, and no axe to grind. Unless you were there, not only heard the bullets passing by your head, but felt the air break as they did, as was I, I would strongly appreciate a retraction of this statement.

With respect to #1:
We all have a right to our opinions. That is one of the countless freedoms I and my brothers and sisters in the armed forces fought and died for to preserve.

Concerning your last statements - natural order of things, it seems to me that you would prefer to accept scientific fact as a basis of belief - if so, please explain scientifically why the Bumble Bee flies.

You stated
"Only those who have been blinded to reason during childhood or those who have less functional mental apparatus see this metaphysical apparition."

First - I do not hallucinate, and regretfully, many people have a difficult time in accepting things on faith. However, I'm sure that if you examine your daily existance, you will find that you in fact do accept many things on faith - actions which result that are totally beyond you sphere of personal control.

My parents not only encouraged me to be inquisitive and open minded, but taught me how to fully research prior to making a stand or taking sides, to have all the facts, and not jump to any conclusions. They also taught me about the three sides of a coin, whereas most people only consider a coin to have two-sides - heads or tails.

During my younger years, I investigated a number of different religions, and made my choice once I was convinced of the validity of its' claims. So now I am Pentacostal - but do not swing from the chandelers.

You also stated
"And finally, I don't think it's a joke whenever anyone indicates they have had a conversation with god. I think it's very serious and I hope they'll get treatment."

Well this is your opinion, however, consider the millions who would disagree because of real life experiences, and do not consider it a joke one iota. God may not speak directly to most, however, most of us who do believe, and pray and yield are sensitive to His Will, can see and feel how He works in our lives. Whether or not you choose to believe is of no consequence to me. However, In my humble opinion you are missing out.

SlySpy · May 1, 2004, 07:45 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PhanthomOps,

Concerning your last statements - natural order of things, it seems to me that you would prefer to accept scientific fact as a basis of belief - if so, please explain scientifically why the Bumble Bee flies.

The myth of the bumble bee that couldn't fly was actually a comical case of unscientific reasoning. It all started in the 1930's when a noted Swiss aerodynamicist was talking to a biologist at dinner. The biologist asked about the flight of bees and the Swiss gentleman did a "back-of-the-napkin" calculation assuming a rigid smooth wing and so on. Of course, he found that there was insufficient lift and went off to find out the correct answer. The biologist spread the word the bees could fly, presumably to show that nature was greater than engineering, however the truth wasn't newsworthy so a correction was never publicized.
The wings of a bumblebee are, of course, not rigid and they flap and bend in a way to create vortices of air just above them producing an area of low pressure that keeps them suspended in mid-air.

PhanthomOps · May 1, 2004, 11:19 pm

SlySpy:

Thank you for the information - now can we get to the subject of this thread?

ruiner · May 2, 2004, 09:24 am

Why are they called bumble bees?

PhanthomOps · May 2, 2004, 04:17 pm

Gee, that's a good question. Maybe because they Bumble =:) =:)

lostkiwi · May 2, 2004, 05:11 pm

The only time I talked to god he told me I should get the chicken burrito. That was a couple years ago at a Mexican restaurant, the menu looked so good I didn't know where to start. I was kind of disappointed, I was expecting something a bit deeper from the all mighty, and I haven’t heard from him since.

I have to give him this though, that was a fantastic chicken burrito!

PhanthomOps · May 2, 2004, 09:09 pm

lostkiwi:

Cute, but I wonder what you would have said if you had gotten the runs instead.

To all others, yes we do like to have our little jokes, and there is nothing wrong with that, in the right place.

This, however, is a serious subject, and not to be taken so lightly. For those of us who believe that one day we will have to stand and answer for our actions this is meaningful.

Let me give you a story that perhaps might shed some light.

One day a man was having an enjoyable time with his motorboat when all of a sudden there was an explosion. He had forgotten to put on his life-vest, and the boat and dinggy sank almost immediately. However, he was somewhat of a good swimmer and being in good health began to tred water.

He prayed earnestly to God to save him.

About 15 minutes passed, and another motorboat saw him in the water, immediately stopped and offered him a hand to safety. He refused, saying God will save me.

Another 20 minutes passed, and a small schooner came by offering assistance. He again refused, stating God will save me.

After 45 more minutes a freighter appeared, and offered help. But again he refused, saying God will save me.

Finally, after a total of two hours of treding water, his strength was exhausted and he drowned.

Upon coming before God, he stated "Why didn't you save me?", God answered - "I heard you and I sent you a motorboat, a small schooner and a freighter -what part of my answer didnt you hear?"

PhanthomOps · May 2, 2004, 09:41 pm

Oh, and since we are on the subjects of joking around and humor, consider this.....................

If you don't think God has a sense of humor, rethink that the next time you look in the mirror :) :) :) :) :)

Golgo13 · May 3, 2004, 10:48 am

Quote:

Originally posted by PhanthomOps,
Upon coming before God, he stated "Why didn't you save me?", God answered - "I heard you and I sent you a motorboat, a small schooner and a freighter -what part of my answer didnt you hear?"

I like how an answer from God is indistinguishable from people coming by on their own accords, exercising their own uninfringed upon free wills to save the individual.

If there was an invisible cat sitting in my chair right now, it would appear as if it were empty.

The chair appears empty.

Therefore, there is an invisible cat siting in my chair.

Maybe that's why so many people don't believe in God. Because he's superfluous like the invisible cat that sits in my chair (which will run away as soon as some kind of test is developed to reveal it, I am certain).

csonan · May 3, 2004, 02:24 pm

A good topic but I would like to add a little perspective to this whole issue but first I feel I have to add a little background info to back up the fact that we all TALK to GOD all the time. But first the promised back ground info:

1) I think that no matter what religion we all follow we can all agree that GOD as defined in many religious text is "All that is - All that ever was and ALL that will ever be"

2) So how does God resolve his "Devine Dilema" which is how does someone (that being GOD get to experience that which is new to HIM/HER when she/he is all knowing about everything. Remember that he/she is ALL THAT IS - ALL THAT EVER WAS AND ALL THAT WILL EVER BE

3) God at some point decided that there was no way to experience that which was new and therefore (this is where both evolutionary and creationist views come together) he took parts of himself and scattered it among the omniverse.

4) Now when we are born we obviously have no recollection of being part of the whole. We are one and WE are created in God's image. Which in religious text has been taken to mean the humanoid form of mankind and yet God does not take this form him/herself and therefore this creates part of the misinterpretation. Rememeber that energey cannot be destroyed only altered and therefore - Us in God's image is universal energy.

5) Now also when we are born we have our cellular memory wiped clean (this is the part of our minds which allows us to understand that we are all one) and thus we now have the ability to decide what we want to be and then create the experience.

I think this is a much better version of religion than most of the religious texts I have read (Bible - Koran - Torah - Bhuddism - Bhagadavista) It also backs up the creationist theory and the evolutionist theory. Who is actually correct is still to be proven but I have now tuned to a universal truth and Yes I do believe in God just not the religious versions of Her/Him.

So the great cycle of life continues and once again whatever faith you have is just that "faith in yourself."

So from this perspective we all talk to God from within our own subconscious and thus our life experiences are what allow GOD to experience that which he does not know and also provides and answer to HIS?HER devine dilema.

I find that in my reading of religious textys that man has used this vehicle to control man and thus we have to use MAN to be able to get to our God, yet God is not controllable by man and yet men tell us that though them we may reach God. Yeah Right! Thus we end up with people killing in the name of their God's and telling us that the only way to reach God is thorugh them. Yet God is everything therefore they lie - LOL

The devine dilema indeed! Why does the richest organization onto itself say one thing and then do something different. Yes I talk of the vatican which is worth hundreds of billions and yet - thousands die everyday because the rich refuse to share what they preach. Why is it that the profit model is more important than curing a dying child of starvation? These and many other answer can be found INTERNALLY - Yep talk to GOD (yourself) and then ask "What would Love do?

Apr 28, 2004, 10:58 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
white rice Igneous Magma Posts: 372	I didn't know Bush's God was the Carlyle Group.... Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

May 1, 2004, 02:36 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	Okay people - are we feeling frisky just to see how far afield we can go? Which leg do you want to pull on next?? PatrickHenry - I am surprised at you God speaks - Deuteronomy 6:24, John 10:3-4,37, Acts 22:7 God hears - John 10:27, 2 Chronicles 7:14, Luke 1:13 God does - John 15:7, Proverbs 3:5-6, Isaiah 40:31, If anyone of you know a Veteran who professed being an Atheist, and was in the front lines of devasting combat - upon investigation you will find out that they cried out to God - repented - God heard them and answered by saving their life. I am a personal witness to 5 such events !!!!! It is extremely difficult for a non-believer, an intellectual, etc, to accept by faith what many of us accept and receive by faith. You see through a glass darkly, have tunnel vision, and must in no uncertain cirmstances have absolute proof. However, when it's offered to you, you are so full of yourself and human intellegence you become blinded, so unwilling to accept it (because you can't make sense of it), and can't see the forest for the trees. "Assuredly, I say to you, whosoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it" Mark 10:15 Think how a child acts, taking by faith that their parent(s) will give them shelter, food, clothing, make them happy, and protect them. Well, since it seems like this thread is being treated like a joke, I'll say goodby. A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 1, 2004, 07:24 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	Occam: Nice comeback. Weak but nice. Let me start with #2 - I did not mean to give the impression that all Atheists would react in this manner - this was wrong, HOWEVER, as a Disabled American Veteran (70& USAF), with a Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars and 2 Purple Hearts - I WAS THERE 111111111111111111 Perhaps many Athiests did not convert on the spot, or ever. That point accepted, I am quite sure that many (not all) did cry out for God's help under the circumstances. I take very strong issue with you concerning your remark indicating that I am lying, and attempting to use a ploy. I have nothing to prove, no macho image to protect, and no axe to grind. Unless you were there, not only heard the bullets passing by your head, but felt the air break as they did, as was I, I would strongly appreciate a retraction of this statement. With respect to #1: We all have a right to our opinions. That is one of the countless freedoms I and my brothers and sisters in the armed forces fought and died for to preserve. Concerning your last statements - natural order of things, it seems to me that you would prefer to accept scientific fact as a basis of belief - if so, please explain scientifically why the Bumble Bee flies. You stated "Only those who have been blinded to reason during childhood or those who have less functional mental apparatus see this metaphysical apparition." First - I do not hallucinate, and regretfully, many people have a difficult time in accepting things on faith. However, I'm sure that if you examine your daily existance, you will find that you in fact do accept many things on faith - actions which result that are totally beyond you sphere of personal control. My parents not only encouraged me to be inquisitive and open minded, but taught me how to fully research prior to making a stand or taking sides, to have all the facts, and not jump to any conclusions. They also taught me about the three sides of a coin, whereas most people only consider a coin to have two-sides - heads or tails. During my younger years, I investigated a number of different religions, and made my choice once I was convinced of the validity of its' claims. So now I am Pentacostal - but do not swing from the chandelers. You also stated "And finally, I don't think it's a joke whenever anyone indicates they have had a conversation with god. I think it's very serious and I hope they'll get treatment." Well this is your opinion, however, consider the millions who would disagree because of real life experiences, and do not consider it a joke one iota. God may not speak directly to most, however, most of us who do believe, and pray and yield are sensitive to His Will, can see and feel how He works in our lives. Whether or not you choose to believe is of no consequence to me. However, In my humble opinion you are missing out. A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 1, 2004, 11:19 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	SlySpy: Thank you for the information - now can we get to the subject of this thread? A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 2, 2004, 04:17 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	Gee, that's a good question. Maybe because they Bumble =:) =:) A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

Apr 28, 2004, 07:10 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
PeterWolf Guest Posts: n/a	Inspired by George Bush and his talks with God and of God choosing him and instructing him in who to attack, I was moved to see if I too could speak with God. Now, to my amazement, God answered me when I called and we had an interesting little chat. I asked God what it was like talking to George Bush. God went onto explain that George Bush is a delusional who likes to think he talks to God but really only suffers from auditory hallucinations or simply put, George hears voices in his head. God also told me that we are all, that is believers and non believers, his children and that we should not make war on one another and that George Bush is simply a doer of evil and certainly not one of God's chosen prophets or one who knows the will of God. So, who is lying, George Bush, God, or me?

Apr 28, 2004, 09:14 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	I think all three of you are lying!

Apr 28, 2004, 06:01 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
PeterWolf Guest Posts: n/a	In reality, I can't claim that I talk to God, not because I don't believe it possible. In simple terms, because I seriously doubt I would recognise the voice of God. This post was a simple exericse in a Bush tactic. Make a claim that is literaly impossible to prove or disprove. Which is why I believe Bush invokes God, that and the populist nature of doing so. There's a Spanish train that runs between Quadalquivir and old Seville, And at dead of night the whistle blows, and people hear she's running still... And then they hush their children back to sleep, Lock the doors, upstairs they creep, For it is said that the souls of the dead Fill that train ten thousand deep!! Well a railwayman lay dying with his people by his side, His family were crying, knelt in prayer before he died, But above his head just a-waiting for the dead, Was the Devil with a twinkle in his eye, "Well God's not around and look what I've found, this one's mine!!" Just then the Lord himself appeared in a blinding flash of light, And shouted at the devil, "Get thee hence to endless night!!" But the Devil just grinned and said "I may have sinned, But there's no need to push me around, I got him first so you can do your worst, He's going underground!!" "But I think I'll give you one more chance" said the Devil with a smile, "So throw away that stupid lance, It's really not your style", "Joker is the name, Poker is the game, we'll play right here on this bed, And then we'll bet for the biggest stakes yet, the souls of the dead!!" And I said "Look out, Lord, he's going to win, The sun is down and the night is riding in, That train is dead on time, many souls are on the line, Oh Lord, he's going to win!.." Well the railwayman he cut the cards and he dealt them each a hand of five And for the Lord he was praying hard or that train he'd have to drive... Well the Devil he had three aces and a king, and the Lord, he was running for a straight, he had the queen and the knave and the nine and ten of spades, All he needed was the eight... And then the Lord he called for one more card, but he drew the diamond eight, And the Devil said to the son of God, "I believe you've got it straight, So deal me one for the time has come to see who'll be the king of this place, But as he spoke, from beneath his cloak, he slipped another ace... Ten thousand souls was the opening bid, and it soon went up to fifty-nine, but the Lord didn't see what the Devil did, and he said "that suits me fine", "I'll raise you high to hundred and five, and forever put an end to your sin", But the Devil let out a mighty shout, "My hand wins!!" And I said "Lord, oh Lord, you let him win, The sun is down and the night is riding in, That train is dead on time, many souls are on the line, Oh Lord, don't let him win..." Well that Spanish train still runs between, Quadalquivir and old Seville, And at dead of night the whistle blows, And people hear she's running still... And far away in some recess The Lord and the Devil are now playing chess, The Devil still cheats and wins more souls, And as for the Lord, well, he's just doing his best... And I said "Lord, oh Lord, you've got to win, The Sun is down and the night is riding in, That train is still on time, Oh my soul is on the line, Oh Lord, you've got to win..." "Spanish Train" by Chris de Burgh

May 1, 2004, 04:16 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Occam Molten Ash Posts: 72	Well, since you are stating what are obviously your opinions as incontrovertible fact. I shall use the same grammatic structure. And since you use the ad hominum critical thinking fallacy I'll accept that as one of the ground rules, too. First, the bible is a book of mythology and personal experiences written by various humans with various personal agendas a few thousand years ago. Nothing quoted from it has ANY special relevence because of its source. Second, I've spoken with a number of atheists who served in the front lines during combat and were facing imminent death. they said that only those who had strong religous inculcation as children reverted to prayer - those who were lifelong atheists didn't waste their time and effort even thinking about any god but attended to the job of fighting and protecting the lives of their unit. Similarly, I'm sure that a great many soldiers facing death did call out to be saved by god and they died. How come, in your story, god only saved the lives of atheists who called out? Sort of makes him seem fickle, doesn't it? And why do I seriously doubt your statement that you were ". . . a personal witness to 5 such events !!!!!"? This is a typical ploy of people who want to shore up their arguments by claiming something totally implausible and unverifiable, by saying they were there. As a non-believer, I haven't found it at all difficult to have faith. I have faith in the natural origin of the universe and its sequelae. I am in awe of the beauty and complexity of existence, I love humanity and all living things, and I care for them as well as I can. I realize that many things are presently or possibly permanently beyond my comprehension, but that isn't the slightest reason for me to tack on some fairy-tale explanation. God is an unnecessary complication that just gets in the way of our quest for understanding. Only those who have been blinded to reason during childhood or those who have less functional mental apparatus see this metaphysical apparition. And finally, I don't think it's a joke whenever anyone indicates they have had a conversation with god. I think it's very serious and I hope they'll get treatment. Occam

May 2, 2004, 09:24 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
ruiner Igneous Magma Posts: 180	Why are they called bumble bees?

May 2, 2004, 05:11 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
lostkiwi Molten Ash Posts: 60	The only time I talked to god he told me I should get the chicken burrito. That was a couple years ago at a Mexican restaurant, the menu looked so good I didn't know where to start. I was kind of disappointed, I was expecting something a bit deeper from the all mighty, and I haven’t heard from him since. I have to give him this though, that was a fantastic chicken burrito!

May 2, 2004, 09:09 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	lostkiwi: Cute, but I wonder what you would have said if you had gotten the runs instead. To all others, yes we do like to have our little jokes, and there is nothing wrong with that, in the right place. This, however, is a serious subject, and not to be taken so lightly. For those of us who believe that one day we will have to stand and answer for our actions this is meaningful. Let me give you a story that perhaps might shed some light. One day a man was having an enjoyable time with his motorboat when all of a sudden there was an explosion. He had forgotten to put on his life-vest, and the boat and dinggy sank almost immediately. However, he was somewhat of a good swimmer and being in good health began to tred water. He prayed earnestly to God to save him. About 15 minutes passed, and another motorboat saw him in the water, immediately stopped and offered him a hand to safety. He refused, saying God will save me. Another 20 minutes passed, and a small schooner came by offering assistance. He again refused, stating God will save me. After 45 more minutes a freighter appeared, and offered help. But again he refused, saying God will save me. Finally, after a total of two hours of treding water, his strength was exhausted and he drowned. Upon coming before God, he stated "Why didn't you save me?", God answered - "I heard you and I sent you a motorboat, a small schooner and a freighter -what part of my answer didnt you hear?" A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 2, 2004, 09:41 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	Oh, and since we are on the subjects of joking around and humor, consider this..................... If you don't think God has a sense of humor, rethink that the next time you look in the mirror :) :) :) :) :) A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 3, 2004, 02:24 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
csonan Sedimentary Rock Posts: 1	A good topic but I would like to add a little perspective to this whole issue but first I feel I have to add a little background info to back up the fact that we all TALK to GOD all the time. But first the promised back ground info: 1) I think that no matter what religion we all follow we can all agree that GOD as defined in many religious text is "All that is - All that ever was and ALL that will ever be" 2) So how does God resolve his "Devine Dilema" which is how does someone (that being GOD get to experience that which is new to HIM/HER when she/he is all knowing about everything. Remember that he/she is ALL THAT IS - ALL THAT EVER WAS AND ALL THAT WILL EVER BE 3) God at some point decided that there was no way to experience that which was new and therefore (this is where both evolutionary and creationist views come together) he took parts of himself and scattered it among the omniverse. 4) Now when we are born we obviously have no recollection of being part of the whole. We are one and WE are created in God's image. Which in religious text has been taken to mean the humanoid form of mankind and yet God does not take this form him/herself and therefore this creates part of the misinterpretation. Rememeber that energey cannot be destroyed only altered and therefore - Us in God's image is universal energy. 5) Now also when we are born we have our cellular memory wiped clean (this is the part of our minds which allows us to understand that we are all one) and thus we now have the ability to decide what we want to be and then create the experience. I think this is a much better version of religion than most of the religious texts I have read (Bible - Koran - Torah - Bhuddism - Bhagadavista) It also backs up the creationist theory and the evolutionist theory. Who is actually correct is still to be proven but I have now tuned to a universal truth and Yes I do believe in God just not the religious versions of Her/Him. So the great cycle of life continues and once again whatever faith you have is just that "faith in yourself." So from this perspective we all talk to God from within our own subconscious and thus our life experiences are what allow GOD to experience that which he does not know and also provides and answer to HIS?HER devine dilema. I find that in my reading of religious textys that man has used this vehicle to control man and thus we have to use MAN to be able to get to our God, yet God is not controllable by man and yet men tell us that though them we may reach God. Yeah Right! Thus we end up with people killing in the name of their God's and telling us that the only way to reach God is thorugh them. Yet God is everything therefore they lie - LOL The devine dilema indeed! Why does the richest organization onto itself say one thing and then do something different. Yes I talk of the vatican which is worth hundreds of billions and yet - thousands die everyday because the rich refuse to share what they preach. Why is it that the profit model is more important than curing a dying child of starvation? These and many other answer can be found INTERNALLY - Yep talk to GOD (yourself) and then ask "What would Love do?