True Nature of Jesus Christ

[joseph2622]

I am not Cathloic or of any religion for that matter. In my recent reading of the bible, not all of it though. I have come to a conclusion that most of what is in it, is what I believe not the words of Jesus himself. Though most of it, as with the Quran and Tanakh, Torah, Nevi'im and Ketuvim of the Jewish religion all share the basic principles. But Jesus is always at the top of debates in the world.

I intend to bring a very basic idea to life and in a way that most can understand easily. When I first heard the words, I finally understood the simple concept all religions seem to complicate. I finally realized how brilliant Jesus was and how he has been degraded and used for power and wealth by very evil people..

There is one, and only one thing you need to understand to be true to yourself and others. You must understand these words:

The Kingdom of God is inside you and all around you.
Not in mansions of stone or wood.
Split a piece of wood and I'll be there.
Lift a stone and you'll find me.
These are the words Jesus spoke.
Those who understand these words shall not taste death.

Whether this is heresy is not important. These words speak more truth about Jesus then anything in the bible, because the original message has been gone since the first church was born. So really how can anyone claim to know God's message when all that remains is a one sided oppressive belief that moves in one direction. The direction that the church seems to decide every time it's authority is questioned.

The reality is that no one really knows what Jesus said because the literature keeps getting edited. Edited without God's explicit approval, and so the modern and edited bibles are unusable and worthless. Unless God himself speaks, who are we to even attempt to interpret his will? There is no way around it. No exceptions. Just as the Christians like to preach.

To make sense of the words above to those who still don't understand, it's saying that God is absolutely everything. Not just one being or superpower. It's saying you are a part of everything. The only thing separating you from me is our bodies and our distance. We are all a part of something that can't be explained nor does it want to be. All it cares about is that you understand that you're a part of it and that it's all around you. The size of what encapsulates us is unmeasurable unlike our own lives. We are not even an atom inside an atom, etc.

Everyone and everything are simply extensions of ourselves in an ever expanding and perhaps retracting space of energy and time. The only thing that is definite is that you will always exist whether it's a part of something else, or perhaps a fragment of some repetitive cycle we're all doomed to repeat forever. Our bodies are temporary vehicles with energy and time being all that eternally exists. Even Albert Einstein said that he believes something happens when we die because energy never stops moving. Whether he was referring to my point is not important, but the man awarded as the most intelligent and logical person of the last 2000 years saw something bigger than us all through logic, and that is important.

Remember, Jesus did exist. 2000 years ago a wonderful, ingenious man was alive. He spoke well and acted as the person we should all try to be more like. He might even have been the greatest public speaker the world has ever seen, but he was not from "The God." His reference to God is a primitive form of saying all that exists. He was indeed the child of God, but so are you. If you read what actually remains of his words you will see forgiveness and improving yourself without attention to others was his real lesson to us all, and perhaps the only differance between heaven and hell is in the way you choose to live your life now. Judging others is something he was against and all donations would be declined. You think Jesus wanted gold plated churches?

There is no praying and no wrath. God already knows who you are and why you did what you did. In fact he knows what your thinking right now and what you will be thinking in 20 years if you're not dead. You're here to explore one view of the universe for him. There is no anger or debt to him, because he is not one being. He is you, I, and everyone. You only owe yourself to change, and do what you know is right for yourself and others. Everything forgives you and everything loves you. All that should be feared is the energy you sow.


Note: The term 'he' for God, I am using is just for reference.

[Fleamo]

Why Jesus?

Sorry, I haven't even read whatever you wrote, but I think the link will come up. I'll read your thing now.

[joseph2622]

If you like, an essay on Muhhamed or Abraham or any other is on the way. I just thought it would be the easiest to debate.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: joseph2622 To make sense of the words above to those who still don't understand, it's saying that God is absolutely everything. Not just one being or superpower. It's saying you are a part of everything. The only thing separating you from me is our bodies and our distance. We are all a part of something that can't be explained nor does it want to be. All it cares about is that you understand that you're a part of it and that it's all around you.

Why would it care about that? Why does it need to be conscious, aware, emotional? Of course I am a part of everything; I am made of matter and energy, as is everything else. The elements that make up my body are the same elements that make up the entire universe. But why assume that the universe has wants and needs? Doesn't the sentence, "We are all a part of something that can't be explained nor does it want to be" make the descriptions of this god/all-thing's desires impossible? If god can't be understood, how can we know what it wants?

Quote by: joseph2622 Everything forgives you and everything loves you. All that should be feared is the energy you sow.

I find this extraordinarily creepy. I do not want to be forgiven by my slippers, nor loved by my underwear. And again, the idea that god could love as we understand love, could know us and forgive us, would tend to contradict the idea that god can't be understood or explained.
Why should we fear the energy we sow?

[Milton Bradley]

Joseph2622, have you ever heard of a Red Letter Bible?

[joseph2622]

Fear the energy you sow simply is either Karma or out of consequences of a persons incompetent, not by god, but by others who deem you to be pay for your actions, wether people or out of natural occurences.. We don't know what he wants, which is why I started this thread, I did not explain what or who he wants. Isn't it obvious that what ever there is it wasnts you to live, not be pre-occupied in prayers and mundane things we have no prove for that matter. to expect that most likely will not happend, what did was bound to happen no matter what. kinda sloppy my bad..

I am somewhat familiar, with that red letters are that which Jesus said himself, then again, the scriptures his disciples and others wrote, none were before 50bc. and Jesus died around 30bc. So what ever was written may have been manipulated...but what do i know, i never even finished the bible.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: joseph2622 I am somewhat familiar, with that red letters are that which Jesus said himself, then again, the scriptures his disciples and others wrote, none were before 50bc. and Jesus died around 30bc. So what ever was written may have been manipulated...but what do i know, i never even finished the bible.

I agree that the bible has been revised more times than we know, and that it is most certainly corrupted by the hand of man.


I just thought it was interesting to read just what Jesus was alleged to have said as a seperate angle to study the bible, and reading just his words apart from the everything esle.


I came out of my bible studies an agnostic, or an atheists, ( even I'm unsure at this point ) but I thought I would offer up what might be a fresh perspective you may not have thought about on your own.

[joseph2622]

Thanks for the suggestion. you never know, what i said could be the worst explanation ever, but than again, only the few words i quoted really matter to me, not the man and his true intentions.

[McAiden]

What you speak of is what Jesus taught his disciples, in private. We each have to seek that out, wherever we can find it. I was amazed to discover, earlier in my life, that all religions do not teach the most important words Jesus spoke, "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you." He also said it was not he who did the works, "but the Father within" him. As the Father is within us all so His works can be done through us, "Even more so than I," said Jesus.

John 14 says it all.

[joseph2622]

I agree with you completely, but the scriptures from his disciples weren't written until many years after his death. Don't you think that leaves room for manipulation?...Though they left the basics many things went on without the presence of jesus himself.

[Yusuf]

Peace be upon those who follow righteous guidance

The reality is that no one really knows what Jesus said because the literature keeps getting edited. Edited without God's explicit approval, and so the modern and edited bibles are unusable and worthless. Unless God himself speaks, who are we to even attempt to interpret his will?

"O mankind! There has come to you a direction from your Lord and a healing for the (diseases) in your hearts,- and for those who believe, a guidance and a Mercy.
[Holy Qur'an, 10: 57]

Verily! But what will convince man that his God is an active Lord, a Creator that sends revelation whensoever and to whomsoever he chooses?

One who studies the prophetic scriptures will arrive at an interesting conclusion: The message and purpose of the Lord's apostles (including Jesus) is pure felicity through simple monotheism, resulting in eternal salvation. The final testament was received by the Prophet Muhammad 1400 years ago in Mecca, Arabia: The Holy Quran (complete online text): English translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I shall take you and raise you to Myself and clear you (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow you superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall you all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein you dispute.
[Qur'an, 3:55]

Regards,

Yusuf

[Jack]

I will make those who follow you superior to those who reject faith

So the Qur'an endorses religious egotism openly? The bible is more subtile, but encourages the same mindset. So much for "All men were created equal...".
No human is superior to any other. This attitude is at the core of theist's hostility toward the rest of humanity.

[Yusuf]

So the Qur'an endorses religious egotism openly? The bible is more subtile, but encourages the same mindset. So much for "All men were created equal...". No human is superior to any other. This attitude is at the core of theist's hostility toward the rest of humanity.

Not so, according to the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) man can only excel others by piety and sincerity. However, undoubtedly, those who follow the commandments and apostles of God, such as Christ, are more capable of earning the favour of their Lord than those who stand in defiance of right.

Which then is best? - He that lays his foundation on piety to Allah (Jehovah)
and His good pleasure? - Or he that lays his foundation on an undermined sand-cliff ready to crumble to pieces? And it does crumble to pieces with him, into the fire of Hell. And Allah guides not people that do wrong. [Qur'an, 9: 109]

We refer to the Prophetic interpretation of Scripture, not an agnostic/atheist one among the non-Muslim laity. It is written, he that lacks interest and sincerity in his quest for the Truth shall find himself faithless, confused, and misguided. If one works hard to attain the desire to learn, his Lord will teach Him and lead him from the darkness into the Light.

All the best,

Yusuf

[Jack]

he that lacks interest and sincerity in his quest for the Truth shall find himself faithless, confused, and misguided.

My own sincere and honest quest for enlightenment didn't lead to that result at all. I have faith in my senses and intellect, I'm not at all confused about my disbelief in gods and I'm only misguided in the opinion of those who believe their path is the only correct one.
What you've presented is no different at its roots than christianity. Religions promote the feeling of superiority among their followers, which I find oddly at odds with the supposed nature of Jesus.

[Yusuf]

Peace

At least we can agree on one thing: our disbelief in "gods." The Prophets preached not of 'a god.' They urged mankind to consider the existence of a supreme, omnipresent power referred to by itself as "God" for the sake of pure simplicity. A God that sends forward special messages to 'His' (or It's, rather) precious creation.

Shall we draw an analogy? Let us take the computer and the human being in comparison. The computer communicates with the man in a manner he will find easy to understand, although computers themselves are designed to intercommunicate within their own protocol, or 'language.' Likewise is it so with the ethereal realm and the means of angel-to-man revelation.

Regards,

Yusuf

[Jack]

I grasp your analogy. The one glaring difference is that I can touch, see and verify the existence of my computer. The language it uses was invented by humans and can be understood by them (yeah, I've been around them so long I learned to read and write binary in the 70's). It does not involve any supernatural processes.
A better analogy for god would be the desktop on my computer. While it appears to be a background image with icons and navigation bars, in reality it's a result of quickly energized pixels. I cannot discern that reality. My senses trap me in the illusion. God is the desktop, an illusion composed of ancient stories and myths that appear to present an image that's not reality.

[phoenix_fire]

I don't care for where these analogies typically go. Person A believes in a deity. Person B does not. Person A gives real-life analogies to try to describe said deity. Person B intentionally uses mythical imagery in order to express his disbelief in said deity. We all know Person A is a theist, and we all know Person B is an atheist. This argument goes nowhere (for a torturously drawn-out post count). Best to move on.

[Yusuf]

Peace

I think this post shall be my final in this topic, but I do appreciate your participation and (albeit, misguiding) contribution to it. Let us prevent fear of faith from diverting us from the Highway.

I leave you with a passage from the Words of One ever-watchful, despite the fact that you'll not hesitate to reject it's wisdom:

To you be your way, and to me be mine.
[109: 06]

[Jack]

This argument goes nowhere (for a torturously drawn-out post count). Best to move on.

I disagree, but you knew I would. Unless your mind is so totally closed that you can never refine your opinions, this back and forth helps each person refine his or her arguments for their side. Debate is a matter of presenting opposing views. Often, you start with generalities and a broad overview, then narrow down your argument to the fine points that support the core of your opinion. I would only cease to debate if the exact same arguments were presented over and over again without moving on to new levels.

To you be your way, and to me be mine.

Actually I like that one.

[Kuldeep]

The Kingdom of God is inside you and all around you. Not in mansions of stone or wood. Split a piece of wood and I'll be there. Lift a stone and you'll find me. These are the words Jesus spoke. Those who understand these words shall not taste death.

If Jesus has actually spoken these words, there is no doubt that he has been the wisest realising the base behind the universe. According to Hindu religion the same idea is said as:

All in one and one in all