Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

hexadecimal · Aug 31, 2006, 06:54 pm

The Catholics condenm contraceptives because a passage from a bible where God commands a man to impregnate his brother's wife and at the last second pulls out "spilling his seed". God gets angery and whips the guy good. I think God was angery not because he spilt seed but instead disobeyed God. Either way a single sperm has a one in a million chance of impregnanting an egg.

Lullaby Chainer · Aug 31, 2006, 09:37 pm

Quote:

Quote by: hexadecimal

The Catholics condenm contraceptives because a passage from a bible where God commands a man to impregnate his brother's wife and at the last second pulls out "spilling his seed". God gets angery and whips the guy good. I think God was angery not because he spilt seed but instead disobeyed God. Either way a single sperm has a one in a million chance of impregnanting an egg.

What did he do to disobey God?

Mia · Sep 1, 2006, 12:23 am

I have known more than one unmarried Catholic stuggle with the birth control issue. I aksed them wasn't the sex before marriage a bigger issue? One said she did not know it was a sin.

How can birth control be such a big deal to implant in every Catholic's head? Amazing.

DavidShankle · Sep 4, 2006, 09:18 pm

That one passage, while a strong one, is not the only basis for this dogma. According to the Catholic Faith, birth control is even contrary to natural law. According to nature, the purpose of intercourse is to procreate. So to do something and then to artificially prevent the natural outcome is to defy natural law. It's like eating a meal and then going to the bathroom and vomitting it all up. The purpose of eating is to take in nourishment... so to go vomit it all up is to defy the natural purpose of eating. The same goes for sex.

Right of Center · Sep 6, 2006, 11:00 pm

I am Catholic. I go to church regularly. Our priest summed it up this way: Sex is to procreate. If you are not trying to make a baby why have sex? It is what the Catholic church calls greed, "need", lust, etc., etc. Jews didn't believe in sex before marriage either. It is considered part of marriage. You are not supposed to share your flesh, unless you are intimately bonded through the flesh. It is quite obvious why the Catholic church opposes abortion and morning-after pills. They kill the embryo. They stop a human being from growing. It is murder. The Catholic church believes in abstinence. While they do not support abortion and similar practices, the church does not condone sex for non-creation purposes. It does not "condemn" Catholics who use birth control. Rather for the most part, try to redirect them toward a more "holy" and "sacramental" relationship with each other, until they are bonded through the flesh by marriage.

Right of Center · Sep 6, 2006, 11:03 pm

Catholics do not believe in sex unless for procreation. Their idea is unless you want to create a baby why have sex? Which makes sense. Sex is reproduction, enjoyable yes, but not some form of ancient recreation. The Catholic church supports abstinence. Sex after marriage. It is part of the Sacrament of Marriage. Jews do not believe in sex before marriage either. The Catholic Church, (at least most dioceses in the US) do not condemn birth control users but rather try to redirect them to the more "holy" and "sacramental" alternative, in hopes of reaching a more divine connection with their spouse and God.

TehNinja · Sep 7, 2006, 01:03 am

Quote:

Quote by: hexadecimal

The Catholics condenm contraceptives because a passage from a bible where God commands a man to impregnate his brother's wife and at the last second pulls out "spilling his seed". God gets angery and whips the guy good. I think God was angery not because he spilt seed but instead disobeyed God. Either way a single sperm has a one in a million chance of impregnanting an egg.

Where do you get that idea from? Link, bibliography, or quote please.

The Second Law · Sep 7, 2006, 11:37 am

Google "Onan's sin" or "sin of withdrawal". He disobeyed God by spilling his seed on the ground.

A Ron White line says it more humorously:

Ron's grandmother, upon walking in on him masturbating: You know, it's better for your seed to fall into the belly of a whore than to the ground.
Ron: All right, got fifty bucks?

--Second

PatrickHenry · Sep 7, 2006, 03:06 pm

It couldn't be a cynical view that birthcontrol prevents the generation of more Catholics, who give the Church their money?:rolleyes:

Sex is for fun. Making more people is the underlying biological purpose, but that doesn't happen every time now does it?

Quote:

Quote by: RoC

Their idea is unless you want to create a baby why have sex?

...? <snicker> I wonder how many Catholics only have sex for making babies...LOL!

Critter · Sep 7, 2006, 03:21 pm

I wonder how many Catholics save sex for marriage?

phoenix_fire · Sep 7, 2006, 04:52 pm

Well, the scriptural backing in this sitch is a little flawed anyway. I think that God was most angry with Onan for disobeying his father and for his selfishness in not caring about the well-being of his sister-in-law. The law was in place about giving the wife of a deceased brother a son because it was the most efficient form of social welfare they had. A widowed woman with no sons would not be able to provide for herself in her old age, so the best thing that could be done for her would be to provide a son to her that would be bound by law and honor to make sure that she didn't end up homeless and starving to death.

TehNinja · Sep 7, 2006, 07:18 pm

Quote:

Quote by: phoenix_fire

Well, the scriptural backing in this sitch is a little flawed anyway. I think that God was most angry with Onan for disobeying his father and for his selfishness in not caring about the well-being of his sister-in-law. The law was in place about giving the wife of a deceased brother a son because it was the most efficient form of social welfare they had. A widowed woman with no sons would not be able to provide for herself in her old age, so the best thing that could be done for her would be to provide a son to her that would be bound by law and honor to make sure that she didn't end up homeless and starving to death.

yes.

also, i think that your signature is a bit decieving, taking verses out of their context.

Right of Center · Sep 7, 2006, 07:49 pm

I know that my father did, his 5 brothers and his 2 sisters (maybe thats why they had so many kids, no birth control?). Me and my sister are expected to do the same. It is a belief that sex is not to occur unless for procreation, and birth control is a form of weakness. You can't have the integrity, or the self-control to stop yourself from having sex. So instead you use either a pill, condom, or surgical procedure, to stop yourself from procreating. That way you can have sex when you want and never have to worry about having unwanted repurcussions.

The current belief on this is not so strict. Currently married couples can use birth control and not be criticized. However the people that have premarital sex and promiscuous relationships are criticized because they are doing a lusty, greedy, unrightous thing to do. While this is definitly not Catholic doctrine it has become more acceptable. It is still not sanctioned by the church but it is not extremely criticized either.

**Jack** · Sep 7, 2006, 09:19 pm

Quote:

they are doing a lusty, greedy, unrightous thing to do.

Woops, you forgot to include "wholly natural".

Right of Center · Sep 7, 2006, 09:26 pm

That too. Thankyou so much for taking quotes, oh hell, entire posts out of context. I was saying what the Catholic's church regards the issue of sex before marriage. I wasn't reflecting my opinion of other people that have pre-marital sex.

I believe abstinence is the right way to go, not only because the church says so, but because it is safer and 100% fullproof. I do not condone nor criticize other people for doing something I would not do, unless it harmed me in any way.

Aeris · Sep 7, 2006, 09:44 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Right of Center

I believe abstinence is the right way to go, not only because the church says so, but because it is safer and 100% fullproof.

Why not? Worked for Mary.

Right of Center · Sep 7, 2006, 10:22 pm

I don't think you are as stupid as you appear Aeris therefore I will not respond to your post.

phoenix_fire · Sep 7, 2006, 10:52 pm

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

yes.

also, i think that your signature is a bit decieving, taking verses out of their context.

They're not supposed to go together: I'm just playing off of the fire theme.

**Jack** · Sep 8, 2006, 01:15 am

Perhaps TehNinja missed the phoenix tie-in with the references to fire?

TehNinja · Sep 8, 2006, 07:01 pm

ah, got it

fire rocks!!

Aug 31, 2006, 06:54 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
hexadecimal Sedimentary Rock Posts: 1	The Catholic Church and Birth Control The Catholics condenm contraceptives because a passage from a bible where God commands a man to impregnate his brother's wife and at the last second pulls out "spilling his seed". God gets angery and whips the guy good. I think God was angery not because he spilt seed but instead disobeyed God. Either way a single sperm has a one in a million chance of impregnanting an egg.

Sep 1, 2006, 12:23 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	I have known more than one unmarried Catholic stuggle with the birth control issue. I aksed them wasn't the sex before marriage a bigger issue? One said she did not know it was a sin. How can birth control be such a big deal to implant in every Catholic's head? Amazing. "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Sep 7, 2006, 11:37 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
The Second Law Molten Ash Location: Texas Posts: 98	Google "Onan's sin" or "sin of withdrawal". He disobeyed God by spilling his seed on the ground. A Ron White line says it more humorously: Ron's grandmother, upon walking in on him masturbating: You know, it's better for your seed to fall into the belly of a whore than to the ground. Ron: All right, got fifty bucks? --Second Economic Left/Right: 5.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.44 </sig>

Sep 7, 2006, 03:21 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Critter Bullets & Bracelets Location: Northwest Ohio Posts: 658	I wonder how many Catholics save sex for marriage? Making people go, "WTF?!?!?" since 1979.

Sep 7, 2006, 04:52 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	Well, the scriptural backing in this sitch is a little flawed anyway. I think that God was most angry with Onan for disobeying his father and for his selfishness in not caring about the well-being of his sister-in-law. The law was in place about giving the wife of a deceased brother a son because it was the most efficient form of social welfare they had. A widowed woman with no sons would not be able to provide for herself in her old age, so the best thing that could be done for her would be to provide a son to her that would be bound by law and honor to make sure that she didn't end up homeless and starving to death. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Sep 4, 2006, 09:18 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
DavidShankle Sedimentary Rock Posts: 24	That one passage, while a strong one, is not the only basis for this dogma. According to the Catholic Faith, birth control is even contrary to natural law. According to nature, the purpose of intercourse is to procreate. So to do something and then to artificially prevent the natural outcome is to defy natural law. It's like eating a meal and then going to the bathroom and vomitting it all up. The purpose of eating is to take in nourishment... so to go vomit it all up is to defy the natural purpose of eating. The same goes for sex.

Sep 6, 2006, 11:00 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Right of Center Truthfully Sarcastic Location: Montana Posts: 194	I am Catholic. I go to church regularly. Our priest summed it up this way: Sex is to procreate. If you are not trying to make a baby why have sex? It is what the Catholic church calls greed, "need", lust, etc., etc. Jews didn't believe in sex before marriage either. It is considered part of marriage. You are not supposed to share your flesh, unless you are intimately bonded through the flesh. It is quite obvious why the Catholic church opposes abortion and morning-after pills. They kill the embryo. They stop a human being from growing. It is murder. The Catholic church believes in abstinence. While they do not support abortion and similar practices, the church does not condone sex for non-creation purposes. It does not "condemn" Catholics who use birth control. Rather for the most part, try to redirect them toward a more "holy" and "sacramental" relationship with each other, until they are bonded through the flesh by marriage.

Sep 6, 2006, 11:03 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Right of Center Truthfully Sarcastic Location: Montana Posts: 194	Catholics do not believe in sex unless for procreation. Their idea is unless you want to create a baby why have sex? Which makes sense. Sex is reproduction, enjoyable yes, but not some form of ancient recreation. The Catholic church supports abstinence. Sex after marriage. It is part of the Sacrament of Marriage. Jews do not believe in sex before marriage either. The Catholic Church, (at least most dioceses in the US) do not condemn birth control users but rather try to redirect them to the more "holy" and "sacramental" alternative, in hopes of reaching a more divine connection with their spouse and God.

Sep 7, 2006, 07:49 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Right of Center Truthfully Sarcastic Location: Montana Posts: 194	I know that my father did, his 5 brothers and his 2 sisters (maybe thats why they had so many kids, no birth control?). Me and my sister are expected to do the same. It is a belief that sex is not to occur unless for procreation, and birth control is a form of weakness. You can't have the integrity, or the self-control to stop yourself from having sex. So instead you use either a pill, condom, or surgical procedure, to stop yourself from procreating. That way you can have sex when you want and never have to worry about having unwanted repurcussions. The current belief on this is not so strict. Currently married couples can use birth control and not be criticized. However the people that have premarital sex and promiscuous relationships are criticized because they are doing a lusty, greedy, unrightous thing to do. While this is definitly not Catholic doctrine it has become more acceptable. It is still not sanctioned by the church but it is not extremely criticized either.

Sep 7, 2006, 09:26 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Right of Center Truthfully Sarcastic Location: Montana Posts: 194	That too. Thankyou so much for taking quotes, oh hell, entire posts out of context. I was saying what the Catholic's church regards the issue of sex before marriage. I wasn't reflecting my opinion of other people that have pre-marital sex. I believe abstinence is the right way to go, not only because the church says so, but because it is safer and 100% fullproof. I do not condone nor criticize other people for doing something I would not do, unless it harmed me in any way. Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have. Quote by Davy Crockett

Sep 7, 2006, 10:22 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Right of Center Truthfully Sarcastic Location: Montana Posts: 194	I don't think you are as stupid as you appear Aeris therefore I will not respond to your post. Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have. Quote by Davy Crockett

Sep 8, 2006, 01:15 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,869	Perhaps TehNinja missed the phoenix tie-in with the references to fire? The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Sep 8, 2006, 07:01 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
TehNinja Molten Ash Posts: 61	ah, got it fire rocks!! The trouble with having an open mind is that everything falls out.