Proving Evolution/Big Bang

[Rooney/ManUtd]

Can Someone explain to me how the universe came from small matter and where the matter came from. If we know that matter doesn't just appear and come from nothing then how did the universe form?

[Zinkovich]

Evolution and the big bang are entirely seperate theories. Evolution does not state how life started, only that it develops over time.

To be blunt, the Big Bang has the same logical/philosophical issues as the idea of God creating the universe. Both assume something coming out of the blue or always existing before inhibiting change, one stating it is an all powerful intelligent entity and the other stating it is a impersonal mass of condensed energy. I find neither theories satisfactory at this point in time, to tell you the truth.

(For evolution, go to the Creationism versus Evolution thread here: Creationism vs. Evolution)

[Rooney/ManUtd]

I find neither theories satisfactory at this point in time, to tell you the truth.

-If you don't mind me asking what do you believe to be the way the earth formed?

Also, I know that both Big Bang and Evolution are seperate theories, but in a way they are tied together.

[Zinkovich]

Can you please explain the link between evolution and the big bang theory? Spontaneous generation I can MAYBE see a sharing in data considering the origin issue involved, but evolution? Sorry, I don't see it.

I have no stance on the creation of the earth at the time because WE LACK DATA. We have very little evidence for any of the side's positions on the formation of the earth, so all we have thus far are idle speculations.

[Rooney/ManUtd]

The link (well my link anyways) is that if you believe evolution then you probably believe the Big Bang theory to be true. I mean, do you know anyone who believes in God and the Big Bang as well?

[Rooney/ManUtd]

Anyways, back on track. I just want to know how the universe formed if we know that matter can not spontaneously appear.

[Zinkovich]

I know people who believe in God and evolution. Your logic, therefore, does not conclusively prove that evolution supports a specific framework, nor does it prove evolution shares experimental/theoretical data with the big bang. Not that it did in the first place, no offense. Let me explain through a illustrative example I used when satirizing a poster who said because Hitler believed in evolution, evolution supports Hitler:

Initial example:
Martin Luther was the founder of prostestantism
Matin Luther was a anti semitist
protestantism is a antisemitist sect

Foor an even more ridiculous example:
Martin Luther proposes the first "Final Solution"
Hitler proposed a "Final Solution"
Hitler believed in both "Divine Right" and "Darwinism" and spoke of
God/Christ and atheism at the same time
Atheism and Christanity both justify antisemitism
Religion and lack of it is antisemitist
Existence is antisemitist
(sarcasm)

You see through example the issue of relating ideas by using people as proof of their connection? If you want, I can attempt to put it into words, but you must give me a while because it will involve some formal propositions and such.

[Zinkovich]

How do we know matter cannot spontaneous appear? Doesn't that conflict with the creation theory rather than the big bang?

The big bang, after all states, that the universe is converted energy, not that it appeared as matter. Meanwhile, creationism states that matter was created from nothing by an outside source.

[Rooney/ManUtd]

When i say evolution I am talking about Macroevolution and not micro evolution. Yes, i also know people who believe in god and evolution at the same time...just not macroevolution. Anyways thats beside the point sorry for getting off track. back the the question i posed earlier...How did the Universe form if matter cannot spontaneously appear?

[Zinkovich]

Read my previous post . It seems we are posting past each other simultaneously.

[Rooney/ManUtd]

Haha, yea we are posting past each other.

Well where did the energy come from. It had to be created but from what?

[Zinkovich]

Perhaps the energy always was, or came from nothing? The problem with cosmic origin debates is that we have nothing analogous to compare the condition of "things"(existence? nonexistence?) before the universe to. There really is very little speculation one can do when considering this fact.

Edit: I need some rest, so I won't be able to post until later today.

[Kuroko]

Rooney I'm well ahead of you buddy.

Your doing the same thing I did, mixing what we know of thermodynamics and hypothesised events.

Tell you what, the answer at this point is as much your conclussion as it is mine, which is to say, it's simply all perosnal.

0=1
My evidence.
0 can equal 1 after it completes the ciruit of 0=+1,-1 : +1,-1 =0

So to say, possitive energy, and negative energy or matter and anti-matter ballance out the universe as 0.

The ballance exists, we know there are equals and opposites to almost every thing.
However what may I ask, preceeded the calculation, or even, what caused it.

[Rooney/ManUtd]

I'm sorry Kuroko but that makes very little sense to me. Could you maybe explain it a little better. Where did the energy come from?

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Rooney/ManUtd Can Someone explain to me how the universe came from small matter and where the matter came from. If we know that matter doesn't just appear and come from nothing then how did the universe form?

Matter did in fact come from No-thing. Just because you are not able to discover nothing is not a sign that it did not ocur that way.

Did not 1 come from 0? Or did 0 come from 1.

How can you have 1 if you do not have 0 (nothing) to compare the idea of "one" with?

[Matt W]

How about you go here:

Creationism vs. Evolution

And read through the 78 pages of debate on it?

[Jack]

Did not 1 come from 0? Or did 0 come from 1.

One came before zero. Read here for the history of zero.
http://www.andrews.edu/~calkins/math...ph/biozero.htm

[Rooney/ManUtd]

yes, 0 does come before 1, however, you can't really apply something like numbers which were, in a way, created by man to something like matter and energy that comes from nowhere. If that was confusing plz tell me .

So are you saying that the matter and energy really did come from nowhere?

[Matt W]

*sighs* This has been done to death over in Science & Technology...please, go look over there.

[Zinkovich]

Rooney/ManUtd : Let me make a point here; it is fairly obvoius from your previous posts(and your equivalence of evolution with the big bang) that you have a certain stance on this issue, and divide into merely into seperate predefined viewpoints rather than differing uncertain probabilities, so a question: What alternative theory do you find more logically plausible/propose?