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Zinkovich · Aug 12, 2006, 01:21 am

I noticed we have a lot of posts/threads concerning the Bible, but very little based on PROVING the Bible. So here is the thread for those who believe in the Bible as absolute truth to stand up for the validity of your stance. Provide your proofs and evidences! Let's examine them, and let the facts(and interpretations thereof) speak for themselves.

Also, some guidelines:

1.) Be civil, and address each others concerns and questions
2.) Let's try not to have this devolve into pointless e-posturing and triumphant grandstanding at one another, please. It only leads to anger, and lots of flames, and of course--pain for the one who started this thread

3.) Engage. Please, let's not speak past each other.
4.) Please, none of this:

A: My proof of the Bible is Mark 13
B: Okay, how is it proof
A: Well, Matthew 4 says......
B: *long flame on his ignorance rather than a civil post stating the problem with using the Bible to prove the Bible*
A: Excuse me but HOW dare you QUESTION the God MOST HOLY. YOU WILL BURN AND LEBELON, THE DEMON WHO TORTURES ALL WHO DISAGREE WITH POSTER A, WILL RAPE YOU IN THE NINTH CIRCLE OF HELL AS I LAUGH TRIUMPHANTLY FOR ALL ETENRITY WHILE UP IN HEAVEN DRINKING HOLY MARTINIS OR SOMESUCH
B: You haven't answered my concern :(
A: Because it was irrelevant
B:

How wonderfully avoidant of you....
A: HOW DARE YOU, etc., etc.
B: Still avoiding my quesiton, huh?

*A and B continue the same circle on and on and on for eternity until the thread is forever ignored by Zinkovich to make the pain on his monitor go away*

So, with that said, and with my fears of what this thread will become hopefully put to rest, let's hear some of these proofs, shall we?

Here's some ideas of where to start concerning proof\logical arguments:
1.)While not conlusive, defending the hisoritic aspect of the Bible will at least establish it as accurate in the temporal sense.
2.) The Biblical creation Story; either the Old earth or Young Earth interpretations, of course, depending on where you stand.
3.) Why we should consider it true as opposed to the other possibilities concenring the naturre/purpose of man/the universe

Edit: Reedited per Isherwood's valid points concerning nonconclusiveness.

**Jack** · Aug 12, 2006, 02:30 am

Quote:

1.)The existance of knowledge of Good and Evil in all human beings, i.e. that we all know we are doing unholy things when we do them

This wouldn't prove the validity of the bible. It would only speak to a society's acceptance of that book's teachings. Acceptance of something as true is not proof of that thing's reality.

Quote:

3.) Supernatural events relating to the Bible(Flood, demonic possession, etc.)

This would require a belief in those supernatural events as possible (in the case of floods, supernatural floods, not natural ones) before you could even begin to discuss whether or not their occurrences were evidence of biblical truth.

Zinkovich · Aug 12, 2006, 02:33 am

Well, they were just suggestions, but thanks for pointing that out.

Technosoul · Aug 13, 2006, 11:04 pm

The Bible does contain knowledge about the difference between good and evil, and most Western world churches would agree to that as a fact. And the Bible is made out of paper, and paper is tree pulp. And so the knowledge of good and evil is in fact printed on tree pulp and has become a "tree of knowledge between good and evil" if we believe those two facts as truisms.

Now when one consumes the words (the words so stated as being the "furit" of that tree) then people become what they eat (the mind can consume knowledge like the body does food - AKA food for thought.) And so they become like walking, talking, bibles. Now the essence of the knowledge goes to their head and that can make them high as it inflates the ego and so they go around judging others who do not know all the knowledge, or whom they feel missinterpreted the knowledge. As judges (using the knowledge of good and evil for the purpose of judging others) they become as a God, knowing good from evil.

The judgements turn to anger and soon they are stoning each other with verse and chapter, and havin a big "food fight" with those symbolic apples. And so then holy wars happen and violence and distruction become a way of life.

And so that is proof of the existence of the Bible, for it is you, and it is me, and it is the world as we know it today.

For behold, the world has become as a Bible knowing good from evil. As predicted in that warning to Adam and Eve.

And the Bible had a brother called the Koran. And another brother called the New Testiment, and one brother killed his other brother, and we had 9-11, and many other such problems. And so the Bible has manifested as a reality, and that reality in this world is self evident as a truth. What more could you ask for if you want to proof?

Comments welcome.

Zinkovich · Aug 14, 2006, 12:03 am

What you are saying may be useful as a symbolic parable, a poetic way of pointing out a strange staple of the Judaic religions, if you will, but does not seem to constitute conclusive proof for the biblical God.

Good flow and writing too.

Technosoul · Aug 14, 2006, 06:54 am

Quote:

Quote by: Zinkovich

What you are saying may be useful as a symbolic parable, a poetic way of pointing out a strange staple of the Judaic religions, if you will, but does not seem to constitute conclusive proof for the biblical God.

Good flow and writing too.

Not sure if you were addressing me with the above comments or not as you did not use quote option.

I thought the O.P. wanted conclusive proof that the Bible was real, not proof for a biblical God. Apparently you did not comprehend the teachings of the Bible nor of that biblical God that inspired (some of) the words those people wrote down.

According to the text you can no longer have conclusive proof of God because he has forsaken the human race because they did not obey his law. You can only have faith of his existance nowadays during this span of time when He will remain apart from human visability, belief based on faith that the words in the Bible are correct. If you could otherwise prove the existance of God then the Bible would not be true and would then be of non-effect - not needed. Because absolute proof of God would not demand faith nor belief, because facts do not demand proof, they are the proof.

And so you got a choice of belief that is founded on circular reasoning or non-belief. But which ever way you look at it you cannot have conclusive proof of a Biblical God as that would not be in conformity with what the Bible is teaching us to believe in via faith.

A paradox, a riddle, a mystery. That is all you will find and no real nuts and bolts evidence. So why debate this at all? Debate will only proove that I am right.

jamesbdunn · Nov 28, 2006, 10:35 am

The original stone tablets of the Ten Commandments are the ONLY legitimate Words of God. All texts written by man since then are exactly what the Ten Commandments said they would be, vial.

You shall have no other gods before Me & You shall not make for yourself an idol. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God.

So what happens, people write for themselves the Bible, Quran, and a variety of other texts to idolize. Leading people to believe that they will be forgiven for doing vial acts against the Ten Commandments.

In EVERY publication since the stone tablets, PEOPLE have sought to gain reverence by other people. ALL Priests, Rabis, Prophets, Preachers, and other persons and texts that admonish the Lord and God in service of their own desires, are in FACT purveyors of works AGAINST the original stone tablets.

A person can neither add to nor subtract from the words of the stone tablets without deviating from the words of God. The stone tablets are the basis for the most popular religions, and are the ONLY words directly transcribed by GOD. It can NOT be interpretated by any person, it can only be read by each person.

Nowhere in the stone tablets does it infer that ANY person shall listen to any other person for guidance. NO PERSON shall interpret the stone tablets for another person. To do so is to speak in the LORDS name.

Since no person can speak in the Lords name, then ALL prophets are purveyors of works against the words of God and the ONLY words directly written by God, the Ten Commandments.

A person can be mentally inspired, possess desire, be good intentioned, and verbally eloquent. The words transcribed upon parchment alter with language and time. God wrote its words in stone, not on parchment. The words of the Ten Commandments were intended to last for all time. I suspect the tablets still exist.

Jagged · Nov 28, 2006, 10:51 am

Im dubious

Aug 12, 2006, 01:21 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Zinkovich Absolutely Superb Posts: 774	Conclusive Proof for the Bible? I noticed we have a lot of posts/threads concerning the Bible, but very little based on PROVING the Bible. So here is the thread for those who believe in the Bible as absolute truth to stand up for the validity of your stance. Provide your proofs and evidences! Let's examine them, and let the facts(and interpretations thereof) speak for themselves. Also, some guidelines: 1.) Be civil, and address each others concerns and questions 2.) Let's try not to have this devolve into pointless e-posturing and triumphant grandstanding at one another, please. It only leads to anger, and lots of flames, and of course--pain for the one who started this thread 3.) Engage. Please, let's not speak past each other. 4.) Please, none of this: A: My proof of the Bible is Mark 13 B: Okay, how is it proof A: Well, Matthew 4 says...... B: long flame on his ignorance rather than a civil post stating the problem with using the Bible to prove the Bible A: Excuse me but HOW dare you QUESTION the God MOST HOLY. YOU WILL BURN AND LEBELON, THE DEMON WHO TORTURES ALL WHO DISAGREE WITH POSTER A, WILL RAPE YOU IN THE NINTH CIRCLE OF HELL AS I LAUGH TRIUMPHANTLY FOR ALL ETENRITY WHILE UP IN HEAVEN DRINKING HOLY MARTINIS OR SOMESUCH B: You haven't answered my concern :( A: Because it was irrelevant B: How wonderfully avoidant of you.... A: HOW DARE YOU, etc., etc. B: Still avoiding my quesiton, huh? A and B continue the same circle on and on and on for eternity until the thread is forever ignored by Zinkovich to make the pain on his monitor go away So, with that said, and with my fears of what this thread will become hopefully put to rest, let's hear some of these proofs, shall we? Here's some ideas of where to start concerning proof\logical arguments: 1.)While not conlusive, defending the hisoritic aspect of the Bible will at least establish it as accurate in the temporal sense. 2.) The Biblical creation Story; either the Old earth or Young Earth interpretations, of course, depending on where you stand. 3.) Why we should consider it true as opposed to the other possibilities concenring the naturre/purpose of man/the universe Edit: Reedited per Isherwood's valid points concerning nonconclusiveness. Last edited by Zinkovich; Aug 12, 2006 at 02:56 am.

Nov 28, 2006, 10:35 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
jamesbdunn James Dunn Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 122	The Bible, Quran, and all other texts are idolized works of people The original stone tablets of the Ten Commandments are the ONLY legitimate Words of God. All texts written by man since then are exactly what the Ten Commandments said they would be, vial. You shall have no other gods before Me & You shall not make for yourself an idol. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God. So what happens, people write for themselves the Bible, Quran, and a variety of other texts to idolize. Leading people to believe that they will be forgiven for doing vial acts against the Ten Commandments. In EVERY publication since the stone tablets, PEOPLE have sought to gain reverence by other people. ALL Priests, Rabis, Prophets, Preachers, and other persons and texts that admonish the Lord and God in service of their own desires, are in FACT purveyors of works AGAINST the original stone tablets. A person can neither add to nor subtract from the words of the stone tablets without deviating from the words of God. The stone tablets are the basis for the most popular religions, and are the ONLY words directly transcribed by GOD. It can NOT be interpretated by any person, it can only be read by each person. Nowhere in the stone tablets does it infer that ANY person shall listen to any other person for guidance. NO PERSON shall interpret the stone tablets for another person. To do so is to speak in the LORDS name. Since no person can speak in the Lords name, then ALL prophets are purveyors of works against the words of God and the ONLY words directly written by God, the Ten Commandments. A person can be mentally inspired, possess desire, be good intentioned, and verbally eloquent. The words transcribed upon parchment alter with language and time. God wrote its words in stone, not on parchment. The words of the Ten Commandments were intended to last for all time. I suspect the tablets still exist.

Aug 12, 2006, 02:33 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Zinkovich Absolutely Superb Posts: 774	Well, they were just suggestions, but thanks for pointing that out.

Aug 13, 2006, 11:04 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,664	The Bible does contain knowledge about the difference between good and evil, and most Western world churches would agree to that as a fact. And the Bible is made out of paper, and paper is tree pulp. And so the knowledge of good and evil is in fact printed on tree pulp and has become a "tree of knowledge between good and evil" if we believe those two facts as truisms. Now when one consumes the words (the words so stated as being the "furit" of that tree) then people become what they eat (the mind can consume knowledge like the body does food - AKA food for thought.) And so they become like walking, talking, bibles. Now the essence of the knowledge goes to their head and that can make them high as it inflates the ego and so they go around judging others who do not know all the knowledge, or whom they feel missinterpreted the knowledge. As judges (using the knowledge of good and evil for the purpose of judging others) they become as a God, knowing good from evil. The judgements turn to anger and soon they are stoning each other with verse and chapter, and havin a big "food fight" with those symbolic apples. And so then holy wars happen and violence and distruction become a way of life. And so that is proof of the existence of the Bible, for it is you, and it is me, and it is the world as we know it today. For behold, the world has become as a Bible knowing good from evil. As predicted in that warning to Adam and Eve. And the Bible had a brother called the Koran. And another brother called the New Testiment, and one brother killed his other brother, and we had 9-11, and many other such problems. And so the Bible has manifested as a reality, and that reality in this world is self evident as a truth. What more could you ask for if you want to proof? Comments welcome.

Aug 14, 2006, 12:03 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Zinkovich Absolutely Superb Posts: 774	What you are saying may be useful as a symbolic parable, a poetic way of pointing out a strange staple of the Judaic religions, if you will, but does not seem to constitute conclusive proof for the biblical God. Good flow and writing too.

Nov 28, 2006, 10:51 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Jagged 99 Red Balloons Location: Washington DC Posts: 274	Im dubious