Innate

[Cadre]

Which do you prefer.

Innate learning or learning through experience and why?

[argonak]

Doesn't innate mean: built in?

Nots sure what you mean.

Cadre, do you mean learning by text, or lecture, vs. experiencial learning. EG. someone telling you fire will burn you and it will hurt vs. sticking your finger in a fire and finding out just exactly what if feels like?

[Suburbanite]

Cadre explain your topics better before you post them, it shouldn't just be a few lines.

[ruiner]

im into irate learning

[Cadre]

Originally posted by dave654, Cadre, do you mean learning by text, or lecture, vs. experiencial learning. EG. someone telling you fire will burn you and it will hurt vs. sticking your finger in a fire and finding out just exactly what if feels like?

Dave knows exactly where it's at.

First hand experience VS reliability on the knowledge taught to you by others
Which do you prefer

I want to gauge reactions before I post.

I'm sorry if my question was unclear, I thought I was direct as possible. If one doesn't understanding the meaning of the word 'innate' in this context they should merely request my clarification.

[dalin]

Sometimes first-hand learning is impractical. Imagine starting a math class by asking kids to derive first-hand all their formulas that were tediously developed by mathematical geniuses.

However, where it is possible, I prefer experience. I find that if I learned something myself, I'm more confident of it, and have a close understanding of it somehow. It would seem logical, as one main advantage for humans is our superior reasoning skills.

[Impenitent]

a priori synthetic judgments are not possible

[mrmufin]

Originally posted by Cadre, First hand experience VS reliability on the knowledge taught to you by others Which do you prefer I want to gauge reactions before I post.

How would I gain first hand knowledge of, say, the Civil War? Some things can only be taught, while others can only be experienced. I prefer both.

Regards,
mrmufin

[PhanthomOps]

Boy, this one looks to be dysfunctional.

Let's determine what is is we are discussing before we get too far a field.

To: argonak:
You are correct - lets see what the dictionary says:

Innate means: originating in or derived from the mind or the constitution of the intellect rather than from experience.
This occurs at birth

Learning means: the act of experience of one that learns, knowledge or skill acquired by instruction or study, modification of a behavioral tendency by experience as exposure to conditioning.
This occurs after birth

To ruiner:
Irate learning implies that your experience would be more emotional than instructional. This would also indicate that unless the circumstances are explosive that you don't learn at all.

To:mrmufin:
This form of learning works for you, and that is very good.

To cadre:
Your original premise was incorrect - all learning is subsequent to birth. Whether it is by reading text, attending classes, personal instruction and/or personal experience, it is still the process of learning.

Since you did finally explain your point - Experience opposed to being taught by others, your question is more easily approached.

In one way or another we all learn by being taught by another. Whether by a parent, a teacher, a friend, a supervisor, etc.

As we are individuals:
1) some of us retain more through being taught via visual methods that involve some sort of action by us.
2) some of retain more via the written text method.
3) some of us learn more primarily through experience and analyzing what has transpired.

Motivation is a major factor in the learning process.

It is proven that when the following three aspects of teaching are employed - a person will retain the majority of the information disimnated in that session.
Hearing - Seeing - Doing

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

I think it is more accurately deplicted as:
#1 Having the data presented and manipulated.
#2 Manipulating the data yourself.
#3 Finding an application for the data and using it to work the application.

[5010]

guided experience works for me

[moondusk]

I think innate or experiential would depend on the situation, but I prefer the experiential whenever applicable.

[Occam]

First, innate learning is an oxymoron. Either something is innate or it is learned. If we were born with the ability to speak English that would be innate. However, there are differences in the way we learn. We learn our native language just by hearing and copying but we learn calculus and second languages by explicit means, lectures, books, classroom, etc.

Since most of our "official" learning is explicit we tend to think of that which we learn by example, especially very early, as innate. For example, are we born with our ethics or did we learn them? And if we learned them, why are many people's ethics very different from what their parents say or think they taught them? Few of us recall where we learned our ethical behavior patterns; they just seem to have always been there.

Of course, that describes our language, too. I certainly don't remember anything pre-linguistically, yet I'm sure I copied my parents. Similarly, we mimic our parents' behavior (not their admonitions) as we develop our ethics. [As adults we often believe what people say they are more than what their actions show they are. We look at what a parent says he is, then we look at the very different offspring. Perhaps the son or daughter is copying what the person really is, or was when the child was young.]

Additionally, secondary influences can have a great impact. For example, my French Canadian grandmother spoke to me only in French until I was three, and I spoke that language almost exclusively. Then I lived with my English grandmother who said no grandchild of hers was going to speak any foreign language, and by the time I was four and a half she had knocked it all out of me. I speak only English and know absolutely no French.

So, in summary, we may be born with great bio-computers that have differing capabilities in specific areas, but we are not pre-programmed. Some of our programming (learning) is implicit, some explicit, some early and some late. While our memories may complicate identifying where and how certain things were learned, nothing indicates that we were born with any knowledge.

Occam

[PhanthomOps]

Occam:

1) Who teaches a baby to crawl?
2) Who teaches a baby to reach up, pull itself up, and try to stand?
3) Who teaches a baby to stand?
4) Who teaches a baby to walk? Yes, we hold their hands for support, but only after they display the ability to stand and then to attempt to walk.
5) Who teaches a baby to reach up and try to touch the toy hanging on the crib?
6) Who teaches a baby to naturally suck on its' mothers breast or a bottle?
7) Who teaches a baby to once it can crawl and walk around to investigate its' surroundings?
8) Who teaches a baby to utter sounds, or to coo, to laugh, to cry?
9) etc.

No one - therefore, I conclude that this must be innate - originating at birth.

[5010]

Originally posted by PhanthomOps, Occam: No one - therefore, I conclude that this must be innate - originating at birth.

So since no one told Einstein the Theory of Relativity, was it innate - originating at birth?

[PhanthomOps]

To: 5010:

His curious natue was, however, the rest of it was due to his parents, education and individual desire to go beyond the norm.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

But your point was that if you were not taught it was innate. Therefore, Newton was innate at Calculus, Openhiemer was innate at nuclear physics, and Karl Marx was an innate socialist.

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

1) Who teaches a baby to crawl?
He is trying to walk but this is the best copy he is capable of.
2) Who teaches a baby to reach up, pull itself up, and try to stand?
Practice, a lot of it.
3) Who teaches a baby to stand?
Watching others. Babies that recieve less attention take longer. Blind babies take a lot longer.
4) Who teaches a baby to walk? Yes, we hold their hands for support, but only after they display the ability to stand and then to attempt to walk.
ditto
5) Who teaches a baby to reach up and try to touch the toy hanging on the crib?
Babies have a growth stage where they prefer to grab, but the grabbing itself is learned.
6) Who teaches a baby to naturally suck on its' mothers breast or a bottle?
This one is likely the real thing.
7) Who teaches a baby to once it can crawl and walk around to investigate its' surroundings?
Is curiosity a skill?
8) Who teaches a baby to utter sounds, or to coo, to laugh, to cry?
It has ears, just like it has eyes.
9) etc.
ect ditto

[Impenitent]

inate skills indeed...

monkey see, monkey do...

animal traits are not human cognitive skills...