Buddhism

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Suburbanite

Back to addressing all the would-be Buddhists here, I think that the religion is all fine and dandy but I have to wonder why it appeals to so many avoid non-Christians. Perhaps the absence of faith makes something as clearly laughable as Buddhism seem like a good idea. It is vanity that makes people think the Enlightenment is something they can obtain, or deserve. Further, the discipline it truly requires to be a Buddhist eludes you all. To say there are no Buddhist extremists is a fallacy; they are comprised of many fundamentalists. Those Buddhist who set themselves on fire in public as a sign of protest aren’t being a little extreme? True, they are non-violent; I guess suicide isn’t something that offends anyone…. I can’t say it really offends me either.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Interesting way to begin, 'I think that the religion is all fine and dandy, but . . .'

I also wonder why a religion like Christianity is so popular in the world today in it's multitude of variations. The scriptures are archeac, lack historical credibility and are out of place and time with the modern world. They allow slavery and portray a very vindicitve jealous God. I don't consider any faith laughable and I am puzzled by your statement describing Buddhism as having an 'absence of faith . . .'.

Many people of every religion have at one time or another commited suicide or in one way or another gave their life for their faith.

Of course there are extremists in any religion or faith, but Buddhists have not raised armies in the name of Buddha and fought religious wars like Judism, Christianity and Islam.

Suicide of course is offensive to people of many faiths. Buddhism seems to be offensive to tou in a very laughable contemptuous way. Contemporary Christianity is very offensive to me as a human tragedy holding science and other religions in contempt.

[Suburbanite]

That’s a valid question. I'm not a Christian if you got that impression I am truly sorry...for myself. I just don't like to see people try so hard to be what they aren't instead of just realizing who they really are. I don't think salvation for a Westerner comes from the East, and I would have to say nearly every "Buddhist" who starts off as a Westernized Christian, or Jew is simply lying to their selves once again. And I have to wonder why they would want to no just leave their religion, but then go to another one. I would have to imagine it is usually because people just like to be different and Buddhism is a way to do that... perhaps like Communism or Fascism. People who hate themselves can't accept anything about themselves, even the things that are good, and I think that is why you find so many Latte Drinking Blonde Haired Buddhists. Not because the religion holds any truth to them.

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Suburbanite,)
That’s a valid question. I'm not a Christian if you got that impression I am truly sorry...for myself. I just don't like to see people try so hard to be what they aren't instead of just realizing who they really are. I don't think salvation for a Westerner comes from the East, and I would have to say nearly every "Buddhist" who starts off as a Westernized Christian, or Jew is simply lying to their selves once again. And I have to wonder why they would want to no just leave their religion, but then go to another one. I would have to imagine it is usually because people just like to be different and Buddhism is a way to do that... perhaps like Communism or Fascism. People who hate themselves can't accept anything about themselves, even the things that are good, and I think that is why you find so many Latte Drinking Blonde Haired Buddhists. Not because the religion holds any truth to them.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

If your not a Christian, I will assume your taking a synical view towards Buddhism. Your assumtion of the reasons why people from the west embrace and study Buddhism or become Buddhist probably are not correct. I left Christianity long ago, studied Bhdhism and Arts of the Way for five years and then became a Baha'i. Most of the people I know who left western religions to become Buddhist or Baha'i, did so because they felt alienated by narrowness of the religious beliefs and the history of bloodshed between the western religions that still goes on today.

I chose Baha'i, because the reality of today's world is that to remain isolated in your own religion like Jews, Christians, Moslems and Baha'is leaves the world devided against itself and humans are the only species on earht that make war on itself.

I don't think the people who chose religions like Unitarian, Baha'i and Buddhism do so because they hate themselves, they do so because Jews, Christians and Moslems hate each other.

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
=Suburbanite,

That’s a valid question. I'm not a Christian if you got that impression I am truly sorry...for myself. I just don't like to see people try so hard to be what they aren't instead of just realizing who they really are. I don't think salvation for a Westerner comes from the East, and I would have to say nearly every "Buddhist" who starts off as a Westernized Christian, or Jew is simply lying to their selves once again. And I have to wonder why they would want to no just leave their religion, but then go to another one. I would have to imagine it is usually because people just like to be different and Buddhism is a way to do that... perhaps like Communism or Fascism. People who hate themselves can't accept anything about themselves, even the things that are good, and I think that is why you find so many Latte Drinking Blonde Haired Buddhists. Not because the religion holds any truth to them.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Actually I did not assume you were Christian, but your response was close to the view many Christians have of eastern religions. People from western religions are often very offended by those that 'cross over to the other side', If your not a Christian, I will assume your taking a synical view towards Buddhism and possibly other religions. Your assumtion of the reasons why people from the west embrace and study Buddhism or become Buddhist probably are not valid. I left Christianity long ago, studied Buddhism and Arts of the Way for five years and then became a Baha'i. Most of the people I know who left western religions to become Buddhist or Baha'i, they do so mainly because they felt alienated by narrowness of the religious beliefs and the history of bloodshed between the western religions that still goes on today.

I chose Baha'i, because the reality of today's world is that to remain isolated in your own religion like Jews, Christians, Moslems and Buddhism leaves the world divided against itself and as a result humans are the only species on earth that make war on itself. I also felt the religious scriptures and beliefs of the western religions were to old to be remotely relavent to the modern world, this was part of the reason I never became Buddhist.

You also appear to assume that people of the west cannot honestly believe in eastern religions, though many people from the east also believe that the east cannot embace the west and the west cannot embrace the east. I do not believe such a barrier exists.

I don't think the people who chose religions like Unitarian, Baha'i and Buddhism do so because they hate themselves, they do so because Jews, Christians and Moslems hate each other.

[Suburbanite]

Are you a Westerner?

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Suburbanite,)
Are you a Westerner?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Yes, I'm from the US, but grew up in Central and South America. I have lived in China for six years. I have studied Arts of the Way (Martial Arts) for many years. One thing I found is that the Arts practiced in the west were very foreign to the original Arts in the east. When I came to China I found the Arts highly commercialized and foreign to the original Arts. Understanding Buddhism became important to making the Arts meaningful to me, because the origins of the Arts are in Buddhism, Taoism and ancient traditions of the Orient that are poorly understood today in both the east and the west.

Actually I believe that leaving one belief and becoming something else is no longer that answer. The same problem exists with remaining cloistered withing the beliefs, traditions of any one faith or religion. The answers are in aquiring knowledge and understanding of both the east and the west and healing the divisions that bring violence to the world.

In some ways I believe that Buddha originally taught this way. He also said not to make statues of him or follow and worship him. He said his teachings and those of many enlightened ones in history pointed to the way to end suffering and bring enlightenment, but they were not the way.

Read 'If you meet the Buddha on the road kill him' by Sheldon Kopp.

[Man Against Time]

lol "The arts of The Way."

There are a lot of "the Ways." Its stupid to use it in that context.

[Impenitent]

there is only one Tao, many styles to get there

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Man Against Time,)
lol "The arts of The Way."

There are a lot of "the Ways." Its stupid to use it in that context.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Ignorance sees the views of others as stupid.

The use of the term Way does not assume 'One Way'

[zorgasm]

For a school project on a religious leader, I chose to do a chronicling of the life of Sidhatha Guatama, aka Buddha, the enlightened one.

Although I do not accept/condone one specific religion, I do have the utmost respect for Buddhism and it's followers.

I find that Buddhism has almost become 'trendy'. It seems as if countless hipster doofuses (possibly including myself...) choose to explore this religion because it is now considered funky, hip, cool, whatever you want to call it. I know it is in the Buddhist's ideals to be understanding and accepting, but I was curious.

If there are any Buddhists out there, how do they feel when the religion they take so seriously is somehow comprimised by those who choose to follow it loosely simply for the trendiness?

I'm not sure if anyone is following me, but I'd be interested to hear some input!

[PeterAngelo]

Buddha had the philosophy of a guy I met who lives under a bridge - and any other preacher.

He believed that the "wisdom" he imparted to the strangers he met had a value. He did not feel that asking for payment was begging - just payment for his time and talent.

He kept it small and personal - instead of tied to a giant bureaucracy that always turns into a giant money-sucking war machine.

His is a way of life that is not harmful - and can be usefull - education always is.

I agree that education is the only thing of value - success is impossible without it.

The "religion" of the world should be the religion of learning and growing intellectually.

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (zorgasm,)
For a school project on a religious leader, I chose to do a chronicling of the life of Sidhatha Guatama, aka Buddha, the enlightened one.

Although I do not accept/condone one specific religion, I do have the utmost respect for Buddhism and it's followers.

I find that Buddhism has almost become 'trendy'. It seems as if countless hipster doofuses (possibly including myself...) choose to explore this religion because it is now considered funky, hip, cool, whatever you want to call it. I know it is in the Buddhist's ideals to be understanding and accepting, but I was curious.

If there are any Buddhists out there, how do they feel when the religion they take so seriously is somehow comprimised by those who choose to follow it loosely simply for the trendiness?

I'm not sure if anyone is following me, but I'd be interested to hear some input!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

I am not a Buddhist per say, but I am a serious student of Buddhism. Trendiness is meaningless and harmless. I am more concerning with fanatical religion, intolerance and fundimentalism in Christianity, Islam, Judism and Hinduism. Fanical religion, fundimentalism and intolerance kill.

[Man Against Time]

So does life. You arent against that too, are you?


I am yet to find a single satisfactory answer to why something that leads to killing is wrong. From any higher perspective, it seems irrelevant to me. That something leads to war in no way makes it vile, wrong, or worthless.

[PeterAngelo]

In nature "killing" is the norm. Not to kill for profit, food, self-defense, or a variety of reasons is un-natural.

We fight nature all the time - and lose.

Dumb humans.

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Man Against Time,)
So does life. You arent against that too, are you?

I am yet to find a single satisfactory answer to why something that leads to killing is wrong. From any higher perspective, it seems irrelevant to me. That something leads to war in no way makes it vile, wrong, or worthless.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Death and killing are part of the natural course of nature. Death like shit happens. Its part of life, but making war over religion is not. The people of Yugoslavia all speak the same language and they are cousins, but that country witnessed one of the most brutal religious conflicts in recent history. I visited Ireland several times and spent time at several of the Reconciliation Centers where orphans of the religious conflict are raised. There are thousands of orphans from the bombs and assassinations just in the past thirty years or so. The death toll in the Holy Lands, India-Pakistan, Indonesia, Phillapines and Africa continues to rise. In Africa, the UN has implicated the leaders of the Roman and Protestant churches as being involved in some of the most brutal ethno/religious conflicts in Africa's history.

The people in most of these conflicts are not seperated by racial differences, The blood shed is over religion. In parts of Africa it is a combination of tribal/religious conflicts when different tribes converted to different churches and Islam.

How do you justify this level of killing in the name of religion?

[PeterAngelo]

Religion is only part of the political process that uses the religious connection to government to justify the killing - always in the name of the GOD ON OUR SIDE.

God has nothing to do with religion - politics - or human evil.

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PeterAngelo,)
Religion is only part of the political process that uses the religious connection to government to justify the killing - always in the name of the GOD ON OUR SIDE.

God has nothing to do with religion - politics - or human evil.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

That still doesn't justify killing in the name of religion. It is not the government that kills it is the people. Of course God doesn't have anything to do with it.