Nihilism

[Fallen Angel]

Originally posted by RebelWithanAK@10-03-2003 11:00 PM hahaha, "an agricultural economy will not feed the people." Why? It always has before...

Agriculture is a possession as well.

[Rave7pt0]

8, I think you're mistaken about the Buddhist belief.

That whole belief structure is about breaking down your personal "categories," which means intentionally forgetting all the bases upon which to judge things. It's essentially about losing the motivation to "do" and finding the way to just "be."

The seven fold path is the path towards that state of "being."

Attachment to material possessions would stand in the way of that path, to be sure. Having material possessions, however, doesn't.


And just to close this post, the root of all evil isn't material things according to Buddhists. It's judgement. The belief that you are "right," and esspecially "more right" than others.

[Impenitent]

I would comment about nihilism but what's the point? it doesn't mean anything anyway...


unless...

[G. Adams]

Originally posted by Rave7pt0@10-06-2003 11:04 AM 8, I think you're mistaken about the Buddhist belief. That whole belief structure is about breaking down your personal "categories," which means intentionally forgetting all the bases upon which to judge things. It's essentially about losing the motivation to "do" and finding the way to just "be." The seven fold path is the path towards that state of "being." Attachment to material possessions would stand in the way of that path, to be sure. Having material possessions, however, doesn't. And just to close this post, the root of all evil isn't material things according to Buddhists. It's judgement. The belief that you are "right," and esspecially "more right" than others.

It would be suffering, not evil, and I would argue that it is attatchment, rather than judgement that is the root of all suffering for buddhists. At least Tibetan Buddhism, the middle path, which is the one I've studied.

[Section 8]

Buddhist are on a quest fot the ultimate truth.

[whyexist]

Sorry,
I agree with you mostly, you might as well question your self "Why Exist?"
Therefore, why not read some answers to your questions here:
Why Exist?

What is the purpose of life? So, religious people invented an answer...God....
Inventing an answer prevents further inquisitive thinking, religion is a fake purpose for life.
Rather live with no purpose than have an absurd purpose.
why not? thus, somebody can tell us :
-What is the meaning of life?
Please.... help!!!!!!
-miquel

[PatrickHenry]

Only G. Adams comes here much anymore. With the exception of Rave, I haven't seen the others in many moons.

My faith in God causes me to care about other people. He loves them, so I do too. Those who hate Him are destined for destruction, while those who love Him are on the pathway of eternal life...

[Starboy]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Those who hate Him are destined for destruction, while those who love Him are on the pathway of eternal life...

Hate what? It is like hating the easter bunny. What easter bunny? It is just silly.

Starboy

[PatrickHenry]

You are full of hate, Starboy, and you are blinded by it and to it.

[Starboy]

Quote by: PatrickHenry You are full of hate, Starboy, and you are blinded by it and to it.

If I have told you once, I must have told you a million times. Pay attention Patrick. I am full of contempt for dishonest, hypocritical, double standard practicing supernaturalists. It is contempt. Loads and loads of contempt. Get is strait.

Starboy

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Starboy It is contempt. Loads and loads of contempt.

Contempt is hate, and hate is blind.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Webster's Main Entry: con·tempt Pronunciation: k&n-'tem(p)t Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Latin contemptus, from contemnere 1 a : the act of despising : the state of mind of one who despises : DISDAIN b : lack of respect or reverence for something 2 : the state of being despised 3 : willful disobedience to or open disrespect of a court, judge, or legislative body <contempt of court>

Contempt sums it up very well. I dispise such dishonest people. I lack respect for such people. I have no reverence for such people. Yes there is hate but that doesn't even begin to describe it. I abhorr such people. To me they are an abomination. There is also loathing, aversion, disgust, distaste, horror, repugnance, repulsion and resentment. Does that clear it up for you. And I didn't always used to feel this way. However the last decade of contact with supernaturalists is what did the trick. But even though I do not care for supernaturalist much at all I am still a live and let live person. Yes I see them as a steaming pile of shit on the lawn. It stinks. It has flies. It is dirty. It is a hazard to navigation. It is right there in my face. But that pile has just as much right to be what it is as I do. But I don't have to like it and I am certainly free to tell it what I think of it.

Starboy

[PatrickHenry]

Your hate stinks...

[Starboy]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Your hate stinks...

Good. It is about time that Christians get a shovel full or two of the crap back that they have been shoveling.

Starboy

[Capitalist Pig]

Cut it out. Argumentum ad hominems are not effective arguments and they are not tolerated here, and you guys know this.

Do not respond to this warning within the thread.

[SteveA]

Quote by: GreatWyrm of Babylon If contentment is all that matters, let us perfect the system of wiring the pleasure centers of our minds to run off of house current. Or I suppose, hand generators so we can still experience nirvania when the power plants stop working...

Obviously such a scenario makes you sad. So, if you were to be nihilistic, and follow what makes you contended, you wouldn't jack your pleasure center up to a few neurodes. Nihilism protects you from this. Though maybe you could be convinced of doing if for someone elses sake, even if you didn't feel pleasure in it. So denying your nihilistic desires could be destructive. It depends on how you value things.

I think evolutionary pressures create much of our values (this isn't just genetic but largely social) as well as things learned during life.

Here's the way I view how humanity works:

Why don't people sit around watching TV with a beer 24 hours a day? Because any society or group of people that did this would suffer and be less represented in future generations.

Why do religions generally not promote suicide or self-destruction but instead tend to support family structures and prosperity? Because religions that tend toward self-destruction, likely already self-destructed.

Why is the Earth perfect for humans to live on? Because the people on Venus complaining about the climate aren't still around.

Etc.

So you could add nihilism to this and come up with a few things:

Would a nihilistic society self-destruct? It's entirely possible, but if not all societies self-destructed at the same time, we'd find no societies present that exhibited any great tendencies toward self-destructive nihilism.

On the converse, we could say that if a society promoted nihilism and didn't self-destruct, that culture would adapt in some form or other to avoid the potentially destructive effects of nihilism.

To me the meaning of life is to simply assure there's another generation around in the future to contemplate this question. It's about the survival of life. If they can find pleasure in living, all the better, but I believe there's a natural balance between pleasure and pain, sort if like Yin/Yang ... our bodies physically are programmed to always desire something more, and pain never lasts forever, either extreme doesn't appear beneficial and again evolution would reject that. An ideal society should be able to tolerate nihilism without imploding. If a society is reliant on external morals that could be removed at some point, this isn't a very stable situation. So if for example, everyone was forced to have children, whether they wanted to or not, it would be easy to breed a population of people that didn't desire to reproduce, if later that pressure to reproduce were removed, the society would quickly die off. It's best to let people who desire to reproduce do so, and those that don't shouldn't be forced to. In many other ways it's best to let people act according to their desires for similar reasons. Not only is it, in my opinion, difficult to make judgements on what's best for other people, it's important that a person is judged by their own standards instead of the standards of others. Imagine if 1000 people were slaves to a single person. If that person made bad decisions in providing for their safety, the entire group could perish, whether or not some of the 1000 would have done something different. Maybe we can say it's their fault for following him - well, I can't argue much with that. Being too much a follower can have its disadvantages, though oftentimes it can be a benefit ... if you follow the correct leader.

As always, I tend to drift but I'll repeat: An ideal society is one that can tolerate nihilism without imploding. A society that has external morals forced upon it to deny nihilism grows complacent and susceptible to whether or not that external moral reference exists. Every society should be vaccinated against self-destructive nihilism by learning to deal with it, rather than simply trying to remain isolated from it.

To put nihilism in a more positive light, imagine a society in which peoples values were such that nihilistic action not only gave them pleasure but allowed prosperity as well. You can't do much better than that, IMO.

Consider as well that prosperity and offspring make many people happy, so I doubt a nihilistic society would self-destruct, unless a lack of independence existed, which could pull everyone down at the same time, that's why some forms of isolation and protection in a society seem necessary. The issue is in people seeing the long-term instead of the short ... and my political comment for the thread is that governments tend to encourage short sighted, destructive planning, because of the volatility they tend to create which adds longer term uncertainties and inability for long term planning to be beneficial.

[Livemike]

Quote by: RebelWithanAK We live to be contented, satisfied, and have occasional bouts of happiness. We have no divine right to anything, nor do we have a divine obligation to anything. Anybody who tells you different is trying to control you - which, of course, rather limits contentment, satisfaction and especially happiness. As such, how anybody can cling to petty vendettas for whatever reason is beyond me.

Whether we have a "devine" right is irrelevent. A strictly secular right is perfectly fine
for all our purposes. Given this it's obvious that we have a right to own and control our
own body.

[Compugasm]

Yes, God did exist. He died. But the world was most shocked to find out how small God was. Imagine winds.... storms... the miracle of life. All from this tiny God with such tiny hands and feet. Mystery solved! Now then, it's business as usual, on the streets and highways that God built.