Most Christians have an Infantile view of god / religion

[phoenix_fire]

I disagree. I can interpret my organic chemistry final any way I see fit, but my professor can then see fit to have me interpret an F on my final average.

[Jack]

A religion with no followers and no leaders would be a religion for adults.

I think you just described the unitarian church, perhaps the episcopalians.

[Ingenious]

Infantile might not be the best word of choice, but I believe that as humans there is no way we could ever comprehend God. Religion is the closest thing we have to having a glimpse of what God is or is not. Religion was created by man. Religious texts and teachings are merely words that are written by man. Words, and thoughts even, cannot come close to making God comprehensible. And as for the correlation between Jesus and Bhuddha, I believe that most religions are the same, with the same basic teachings. The only contrast between most religions are the variations that occur due to geographic locationing, culture, and lifestyle. Iconic religious figures differ due to the the stated differences in lifestyle. The majority of the Asian populus follow the teachings of Bhuddha because Bhuddha was an iconic Asian religious figure. Most of the western civilation worships Jesus because the Romans accepted it as their dominant religion, and the Roman influence was spread throughout the western civilization. Religion can be viewed as attire. You wear what suits you. And it is only normal for you to take pride in what you wear and glorify your attire. All religions try to make life more comprehensible, whether it be through detailed metaphors or simple philosophies. Whatever suits you.

[twoanickel]

Quote by: samsara15 It seems to me that Christianity almost demands that one have an infantile view of God. Otherwise, you could not be a servile follower of the 'canon', but would insist on an interactive religion that one was free to interpret as one saw fit. A religion with no followers and no leaders would be a religion for adults.

That is what most people recognize as ANARCHY. But I suspect that you are being true to your innermost being when you say in effect that God has no right to reign over the world He has created for Himself; not only created, but further, also ocntinually gives to everyone "life, breath, and all things." Without Him you could not even take a breath; yet you think He has no more right to reign over His creation than you do. That is rebellion at its deepest.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Ingenious Infantile might not be the best word of choice, but I believe that as humans there is no way we could ever comprehend God. Religion is the closest thing we have to having a glimpse of what God is or is not. Religion was created by man. Religious texts and teachings are merely words that are written by man. Words, and thoughts even, cannot come close to making God comprehensible. And as for the correlation between Jesus and Bhuddha, I believe that most religions are the same, with the same basic teachings. The only contrast between most religions are the variations that occur due to geographic locationing, culture, and lifestyle. Iconic religious figures differ due to the the stated differences in lifestyle. The majority of the Asian populus follow the teachings of Bhuddha because Bhuddha was an iconic Asian religious figure. Most of the western civilation worships Jesus because the Romans accepted it as their dominant religion, and the Roman influence was spread throughout the western civilization. Religion can be viewed as attire. You wear what suits you. And it is only normal for you to take pride in what you wear and glorify your attire. All religions try to make life more comprehensible, whether it be through detailed metaphors or simple philosophies. Whatever suits you.

Actually, Buddha was an Indian figure. It is an entirely different culture. And for hundreds of years, Christianity flourished despite the Romans.

[Ingenious]

Indian is asian. And Christianity did not flourish in the Western Civilization until after the Romans adopted it and their influece spread through the Western Civilization.

[phoenix_fire]

Indian is most definately not Asian. It is a subcontinent and the culture is very distinct from any in the world, much less its neighbors. And you can argue the definition of flourish if you want, but this is sidetracking the debate. Suffice it to say that, while parental/cultural norms may have some influence (with some people more than others), they are definately not paramount in determining someone's faith. Most people will at some time question their faith and this forces them to make a more informed decision. I can tell you and have told others that, while my parents are supposed to be of the same religion as me, we believe and live very differently; almost as if we believed in different faiths altogether.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: phoenix_fire And you can argue the definition of flourish if you want, but this is sidetracking the debate.

Certainly it is. We should avoid it less the blaring gaping hypocritical holes in Christianity come to light. "Philo of Alexandria didn't care enough to write about Jesus or didn't hear of him, but Christianity was flourishing in his time period... and even though the people who were actually ALIVE at the time could care less about this Christ guy doesn't lend evidence to the idea that Jesus was a myth... honest."

You're right. That is off-topic and I've thoroughly pummeled you churchies to death with it in other threads so there's no reason to delve into it here.

Suffice it to say that, while parental/cultural norms may have some influence (with some people more than others), they are definately not paramount in determining someone's faith.

Okay.

Prove it.

[phoenix_fire]

Interesting how we are all victors in our minds, Zhavric.

As to the last, I am the proof. My Taiwanese evangelical friend with Buddhist parents is the proof. Countless people that I have met in the course of my ministry are the proof. I could go on.

[m3talsmith_redu]

Quote by: PatrickHenry I have hope for an eternal future. You have to face the end of your existence.

Really, psychologically, in the end does it matter? I don't really care if I live beyond my life right now. How does hope in an everlasting life, as the Bible puts it, help console you on the crap that happens to you in this life? My only answer is ignorance is bliss.

This coming from a long time Christian, since the age of 7, doubting the substance of things, and even a reason for things.

[m3talsmith_redu]

Quote by: Saint Vern It does not depend on a majority vote or anyone's "feelings". And as we have a severe dearth of literacy and understanding of reality--with everyone seemingly opting to go the easy way--the fact that most people probably disregard christianity as "just religion" is not exactly a shocker. Just as our government system is not one of majority rule, neither is the meaning of words or the reality of the world.

The easy way would be to stick to it without questioning it (Christianity). You hypocrite!

[Zhavric]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Interesting how we are all victors in our minds, Zhavric. As to the last, I am the proof. My Taiwanese evangelical friend with Buddhist parents is the proof. Countless people that I have met in the course of my ministry are the proof. I could go on.

It's amazing how you theists twist in the wind whenever anyone challenges you to prove something.

No one is demanding you prove one or two instances. No one is asserting that ALL people are ALWAYS the same religion as their parents. We are asserting that a MAJORITY of individuals are the same religion as their parents. What do you offer against this assertion? Anecdotal "evidence" which is THE weakest form of evidence... and it really doesn't count in this situation as you haven't offered anything about the majority.

You have, again, failed to debate.

[Saint Vern]

Quote by: m3talsmith_redu The easy way would be to stick to it without questioning it (Christianity).

Oh but I have indeed questioned it. I spent years questioning it, and do you know what happened? I, as opposed to you people who hate God and therefore cannot approach the question with anything approaching objectivity, went in completely indifferent to the Word of God and found in it the answer to every question or problem a person can face. (And not because this is what I wanted to find, as I turned my nose up at college roommates and friends had begged me to consider Messiah.) Of course this reality is as opposed to the world, which gives you...what? A knuckle sandwich each day for merely daring to stand up for yourself.

Yes, the Creator and Savior is a great Guy, and much more interested in being on your side than is the ruler of this world.

:-)

[Zhavric]

Why do you lie?

Quote by: Saint Vern Oh but I have indeed questioned it. I spent years questioning it, and do you know what happened? I, as opposed to you people who hate God and therefore cannot approach the question with anything approaching objectivity, went in completely indifferent to the Word of God and found in it the answer to every question or problem a person can face. Of course this reality is as opposed to the world, which gives you...what? A knuckle sandwich each day for merely daring to stand up for yourself. Yes, the Creator and Savior is a gblah blah blah

The bolded section. Unless you've actually questioned whether or not god is real, then your claim to objectivity is absolutely false.

Just as one cannot equate 2 and 2 to 5, one cannot draw the conclusion that god is real based on the available evidence without memetic abuse being involved.

You simply did not question.

[Saint Vern]

Quote by: Zhavric Why do you lie?

Why are you bitter?

The bolded section. Unless you've actually questioned whether or not god is real, then your claim to objectivity is absolutely false.

You really assume quite a bit, all of which you hand-pick for its hoped-for benefit to your biased prejudices.

Just as one cannot equate 2 and 2 to 5, one cannot draw the conclusion that god is real based on the available evidence without memetic abuse being involved.

No extra credit shall be awarded for inventing words.

You simply did not question.

Yes I did answer it, but not "simply"...which is what bothers you. I answered it in such a way that you cannot come up with a cogent response. Now do you want to discuss something or should I just chalk you up as yet another frustrated God-hater.

[puellamore]

You still don't comprehend. (Why am I not surprised.) The point has been made to you several times that we cannot hate something which does not exist and yet you still keep referring to me and others as "those who hate god". And in the final analysis, it doesn't really matter whether or not god exists, or whether Jesus of Nazareth (one of the greatest philosophers to have lived) is a divine supernatural being. What matters is your relationship and attitude toward your fellow human beings and the world around us. What matters is whether or not you want to base your actions on love and respect for other creatures and for the magnificent natural world, or whether you want to hurt and abuse that which is around you based on a dogmatic (and false) interpretation of the teachings of a great man.

And I apologize for going slightly off-topic.

[Saint Vern]

Quote by: puellamore You still don't comprehend. (Why am I not surprised.) The point has been made to you several times that we cannot hate something which does not exist and yet you still keep referring to me and others as "those who hate God".

Ah...but I do indeed understand. You see, that street runs both ways, and that you hate the very concept of God means you cannot pull yourself away from your degenerate hatred of us who love Him. Which means not only are you a God-hater but you also have far more hatred toward your fellow human beings than is healthy.

Jesus still loves you.

:-)

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Saint Vern Why are you bitter?

lol What was that about assuming?

You really assume quite a bit, all of which you hand-pick for its hoped-for benefit to your biased prejudices.

Good to see that you agree with me that you never approached the subject objectively. If you had, you would have said so here instead of sounding like an ass.

No extra credit shall be awarded for inventing words.

Credit will be deducted for failing to pass basic vocabulary. I know those seven letter words can be killer, but...

Memetics

Yes I did answer it, but not "simply"...which is what bothers you. I answered it in such a way that you cannot come up with a cogent response. Now do you want to discuss something or should I just chalk you up as yet another frustrated God-hater.

You can consider me to be whatever you want. Until you establish that you approached the issue of Christianity by starting from the standpoint of "god does not exist" then your claim to objectivity is a lie. It's like being a smoker and claiming you examined all the health reports published by Big Tobacco: that's not objectivity.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Saint Vern Ah...but I do indeed understand. You see, that street runs both ways, and that you hate the very concept of God means you cannot pull yourself away from your degenerate hatred of us who love Him. Which means not only are you a God-hater but you also have far more hatred toward your fellow human beings than is healthy. Jesus still loves you.

AAahahaaahahahahaaahahahaaaAHAHaAHahahaaaHAAHAaahaha... *gasp*

AAahahaaahahahahaaahahahaaaAHAHaAHahahaaaHAAHAaahaha... *gasp*

AAahahaaahahahahaaahahahaaaAHAHaAHahahaaaHAAHAaahaha... *gasp*


wow... lol... I haven't read anything more retarded. Thank you for proving the premise of this thread. You have established beyond any shadow of any doubt that your view of god is, indeed, infantile.

If only I had more room in my sig...

[Saint Vern]

Quote by: Zhavric What was that about assuming?

Are you reading-impaired?

Good to see that you agree with me that you never approached the subject objectively. If you had, you would have said so here instead of sounding like an ass.

You still have not impugned my statements, or established any authority on your part to make such wild claims about me. Oh...and the Creator remains proven, so tough luck.

You can consider me to be whatever you want. Until you establish that you approached the issue of Christianity by starting from the standpoint of "god does not exist" then your claim to objectivity is a lie

Oh. Well, until you prove otherwise we shall assume that you still are a wife-beater. Fair?