Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Lullaby Chainer · May 15, 2006, 10:09 am

Have any of you completely changed your mind about something after debating it on Volconvo?

Any atheists turn to theists? Any theists turn to atheists?

Share your revelations. Your new point of views. Share what thoughts were changed by the Volconvo experience.

I have a question for Tman. I remember debating the existence of God with you a long time ago. I remember you defending Christianity then. Now, it seems like you're an Atheist? I can't be sure, please correct me if I'm wrong.

phoenix_fire · May 15, 2006, 10:32 am

Nope. I am hopelessly brainwashed. At least, that's what I assume others assume.

Mia · May 15, 2006, 10:46 am

I have seriously re-thought my position after being 'thwarted' in debate here.

This is OK with me b/c I learned something. I would not continue to debate a position that I could no longer see the merit in for the sake of 'winning'.

Zhavric · May 15, 2006, 11:04 am

Then how do you account for this?

Mia · May 15, 2006, 11:32 am

Ummmmm, where was I thwarted in debate on that topic?

Rive · May 15, 2006, 12:55 pm

heh, owl

i've learned more than i've changed here. I know it says i only have like 4 posts but i used to have over 200(i think), so...

Sometimes i mold my opinion by some of the arguments, especially when i don't have much knoledge on the topic

Kite · May 15, 2006, 12:58 pm

I've learned that up is not down, don't try to use reason to persuede a religious fanatic, don't piss off the admins, and always wear protection.

Sonart · May 15, 2006, 01:38 pm

.

I don't know if it's from discussion on these boards or just a natural mellowing process, but I've actually become more tolerant of believers. I used to take a perverse joy in tormenting them but I've discovered that ON THE WHOLE, most believers are sincere, well-meaning and tend to be somewhat embarrassed by the excesses of their fire and brimstone breathren.

Likewise I've become equally embarrassed by the vitriol and hatred toward believers from some of my fellow non-believers. I think there's a lot of uncalled for derision of believers, which may in part be from having ourselves been derided most of our lives by the vocal, smug and self-righteous elements of the religious majority .

Part of this new tolerance on my part may likely be due to my steadily increasing belief that humans are hardwired for 'religion' and spirituality. I think it would be just as unfair to fault people for something they were born to believe as it is for the religious to fault what gays were born to be.

What I will continue to debate with believers, however, is the dogmatism which I believe leads to ignorance and intolerance, and to simply try to explain why I believe - or don't believe - so that believers might come to a better understanding that atheists are not the devils they've been taught but rather people with their own moral compasses and values who simply think differently.

.

PatrickHenry · May 15, 2006, 02:21 pm

It's hard to teach an old dog...

G. Adams · May 15, 2006, 02:25 pm

A long while back, an Aussie, Geoff I think, converted me from a staunch communist into a cynical anarchist. Not that a handful of ill educated, redneck libertarians can tell the difference anyway. Thankfully there are some more intelligent libertarians here so I don't lose faith in them all.

Osborn F Enready · May 15, 2006, 02:34 pm

I have learned much, and changed my views on many things.

I grow with every debate, whether I am thought to be right or wrong.

Anyone who says they haven't been changed at all, I think is being dishonest. Reading opinions, ideas and positions, that differ from your own, ALWAYS have an effect, even if it is simply reinforcing your own positions.

My goals of debate, 9 times out of 10, is to show REASONABLE DOUBT on the side of the government. They often claim to be "acting in our best intrest", yet reasonable doubt exists abound to that idea, or notion. Their case is flawed, and their powers based on erroneous, and flawed laws that have yet to be repealed, due to monopoly of marketing and campaigning by two major economic forces of media and print, who wish to avoid the issues at hand.

It befuddles me, amazes me, and perplexes me all at the same time, that Americans will not accept the concept of no choice, except when it comes to government.

Baskin-Robbins, 31 flavors and more?
Cars come in how many colors?
How many types of vehicles?
How many types of ANYTHING that is produced?
How many types of music?
How many types of food?

Yet still, people ACCEPT the INCORRECT NOTION that there are only two parties to pick from in this country, because that is all the media and seated (bi-partisan) puppets talk about.

Does anyone know without looking it up, how many OFFICIAL political parties there are in the United States? I bet not.

The answer? 54 Political Parties, NOT INCLUDING the two major parties.
The third biggest, or most popular party? The Libertarian Party from what I can surmise based on facts and representation.

So, why do YOU PEOPLE settle for not hearing from any but two, failure, back-biting, lying, corrupt parties?!?!?

http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm

Mia · May 15, 2006, 11:52 pm

Soapbox?

Lol!

**Jack** · May 16, 2006, 12:01 am

Quote:

why do YOU PEOPLE settle for not hearing from any but two, failure, back-biting, lying, corrupt parties?!?!?

Not me. I want to hear from all 54 of the failure, back-biting, lying, corrupt parties.
I suspect anyone who desires power through the political quagmire.

**Jack** · May 16, 2006, 12:24 am

The majority of my average day is spent performing tasks that are mind-numbingly dull, repetitive and often unappreciated. If that was all I could look forward to every day, I'd take both the blue pill and the red pill and wash them down with the Kool-Aid.
I come here to recharge my mental batteries. Have I expanded my knowledge any? Some, but not too often. Have I learned anything I didn't know before? Not yet. Has anything changed my mind since joining? No.

What I've enjoyed best is being able to defend points of view I previously was reluctant to talk about, either because I felt it inappropriate or because I didn't want to risk inciting violence toward myself. Discussing homosexuality and atheism in a venue like this is both more rewarding and less dangerous than sitting in a booth at the local Ho-Jo's.

Scribbler1 · May 16, 2006, 01:01 am

I have modified my stance on some things, but not radically so. I try to be informed before I say anything or try like hell to keep my mouth shut (not easy). The main thing I get from all this is probably the opportunity to look at things from another perspective. Not that I'll change my mind, mind you.

I can bend a little on a position but it's not in my nature to break.

**Jack** · May 16, 2006, 01:12 am

Quote:

I can bend a little on a position but it's not in my nature to break.

Have you noticed that with age bending, both physically and philosophically, becomes harder and more likely to lead to lead to serious injury?
Old and stiff in all ways but the one that could be truly useful. Unless you're me.

Rainbow · May 16, 2006, 04:27 am

Quote:

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer

Thoughts have changed by the Volconvo experience

Have any of you completely changed your mind about something after debating it on Volconvo?

Zero changes.

A note aside :
The Volcanvo's Philosophy and Religion forum has become a "gasoline" to fuel some members' weird (put it extremely mildly) approach on religious aspects.
Many religious topics are filled with material that any acceptable form for debate has not much in common with it. Hatered, cynicism, jeer, degradation, ect. all the way, instead.
That is the level the Volcanvo' Philosophy and Religion presents today. Therefore, I believe that Volcanvo's Philosophy and Religion forum should have been moderated with much greater dose, in order to root out offensive stance(s). It seems Volcanvo forum is "off limits".
That is a little strange, since Volcanvo site is widely opened to public and it should protect all those who follow their religious path. People should excersize their religious privilege and rights granted to them by the Constitution and the Law. "Freedom of Speech" does not carry and/or grant the rights to offend religions and/or their followers, along with their values, respectively.

Personally, I am not interested whether people follow or not a religious path.
That is everybody's personal matter.

G. Adams · May 16, 2006, 04:47 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Rainbow

Zero changes.

A note aside :
The Volcanvo's Philosophy and Religion forum has become a "gasoline" to fuel some members' weird (put it extremely mildly) approach on religious aspects.
Many religious topics are filled with material that any acceptable form for debate has not much in common with it. Hatered, cynicism, jeer, degradation, ect. all the way, instead.
That is the level the Volcanvo' Philosophy and Religion presents today. Therefore, I believe that Volcanvo's Philosophy and Religion forum should have been moderated with much greater dose, in order to root out offensive stance(s). It seems Volcanvo forum is "off limits".
That is a little strange, since Volcanvo site is widely opened to public and it should protect all those who follow their religious path. People should excersize their religious privilege and rights granted to them by the Constitution and the Law. "Freedom of Speech" does not carry and/or grant the rights to offend religions and/or their followers, along with their values, respectively.

Personally, I am not interested whether people follow or not a religious path.
That is everybody's personal matter.

The concept of "Freedom of Speech" is encapsulated entirely in the name. It is not a gift from some authority to be withdrawn if we say "the wrong thing". You have a freedom of speech, you are free to express yourself in whatever way you wish, providing you do not cause real harm to someone.

I've learned that far too many people are willing to submit to authority while posting here.

Scribbler1 · May 16, 2006, 05:48 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

Old and stiff in all ways but the one that could be truly useful.

Well, I WAS having a good day! Thanks a bunch, pal.

Rainbow · May 16, 2006, 08:17 pm

Quote:

Quote by: G. Adams

The concept of "Freedom of Speech" is encapsulated entirely in the name. It is not a gift from some authority to be withdrawn if we say "the wrong thing". You have a freedom of speech, you are free to express yourself in whatever way you wish, providing you do not cause real harm to someone.

I've learned that far too many people are willing to submit to authority while posting here.

#1
The source is irrelevant.
One needs to respect and/or tolerate others, at least. Since there are some people not willing to comply with that fundamental characteristic(s) for communication and/or interacting with/between others, so there is the Constitution and the Law to uphold it.

#2
What is that ? :-)
Are you positive you have posted the right data in the right thread ? :-)
Why should I care some people have a desire to provide Feds with some data ?

May 15, 2006, 10:09 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Lullaby Chainer Posts: 3,018	Thoughts have changed by the Volconvo experience Have any of you completely changed your mind about something after debating it on Volconvo? Any atheists turn to theists? Any theists turn to atheists? Share your revelations. Your new point of views. Share what thoughts were changed by the Volconvo experience. I have a question for Tman. I remember debating the existence of God with you a long time ago. I remember you defending Christianity then. Now, it seems like you're an Atheist? I can't be sure, please correct me if I'm wrong. *Powerful.. magical.. e-e-e-eevil..*

May 15, 2006, 10:32 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	Nope. I am hopelessly brainwashed. At least, that's what I assume others assume. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

May 15, 2006, 10:46 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	I have seriously re-thought my position after being 'thwarted' in debate here. This is OK with me b/c I learned something. I would not continue to debate a position that I could no longer see the merit in for the sake of 'winning'. "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

May 15, 2006, 11:04 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Zhavric Made of pure win. Posts: 3,710	Then how do you account for this? Theists: supplying volconvo with lose since 2004.

May 15, 2006, 11:32 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	Ummmmm, where was I thwarted in debate on that topic? "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

May 15, 2006, 12:55 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Rive little light of mine Location: In the shadows Posts: 127	heh, owl i've learned more than i've changed here. I know it says i only have like 4 posts but i used to have over 200(i think), so... Sometimes i mold my opinion by some of the arguments, especially when i don't have much knoledge on the topic what are they gonna do when the lights go down? Without you to guide them all to Zion? What are they gonna do when the rivers overrun? Other than tremble incessantly

May 15, 2006, 12:58 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Kite Evil Overlord Location: A Geofront, somewhere in Antarctica Posts: 938	I've learned that up is not down, don't try to use reason to persuede a religious fanatic, don't piss off the admins, and always wear protection. I know your type. You think, "I'll just get me a costume, rip off the neighborhood kids." Next thing you know, you've got a jet shaped like a skull with lasers on the front! -The Monarch

May 15, 2006, 01:38 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Sonart It's simply logical Location: San Diego Posts: 4,593	. I don't know if it's from discussion on these boards or just a natural mellowing process, but I've actually become more tolerant of believers. I used to take a perverse joy in tormenting them but I've discovered that ON THE WHOLE, most believers are sincere, well-meaning and tend to be somewhat embarrassed by the excesses of their fire and brimstone breathren. Likewise I've become equally embarrassed by the vitriol and hatred toward believers from some of my fellow non-believers. I think there's a lot of uncalled for derision of believers, which may in part be from having ourselves been derided most of our lives by the vocal, smug and self-righteous elements of the religious majority . Part of this new tolerance on my part may likely be due to my steadily increasing belief that humans are hardwired for 'religion' and spirituality. I think it would be just as unfair to fault people for something they were born to believe as it is for the religious to fault what gays were born to be. What I will continue to debate with believers, however, is the dogmatism which I believe leads to ignorance and intolerance, and to simply try to explain why I believe - or don't believe - so that believers might come to a better understanding that atheists are not the devils they've been taught but rather people with their own moral compasses and values who simply think differently. . I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

May 15, 2006, 02:21 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,446	It's hard to teach an old dog... "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

May 15, 2006, 02:25 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,163	A long while back, an Aussie, Geoff I think, converted me from a staunch communist into a cynical anarchist. Not that a handful of ill educated, redneck libertarians can tell the difference anyway. Thankfully there are some more intelligent libertarians here so I don't lose faith in them all. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

May 15, 2006, 02:34 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	I have learned much, and changed my views on many things. I grow with every debate, whether I am thought to be right or wrong. Anyone who says they haven't been changed at all, I think is being dishonest. Reading opinions, ideas and positions, that differ from your own, ALWAYS have an effect, even if it is simply reinforcing your own positions. My goals of debate, 9 times out of 10, is to show REASONABLE DOUBT on the side of the government. They often claim to be "acting in our best intrest", yet reasonable doubt exists abound to that idea, or notion. Their case is flawed, and their powers based on erroneous, and flawed laws that have yet to be repealed, due to monopoly of marketing and campaigning by two major economic forces of media and print, who wish to avoid the issues at hand. It befuddles me, amazes me, and perplexes me all at the same time, that Americans will not accept the concept of no choice, except when it comes to government. Baskin-Robbins, 31 flavors and more? Cars come in how many colors? How many types of vehicles? How many types of ANYTHING that is produced? How many types of music? How many types of food? Yet still, people ACCEPT the INCORRECT NOTION that there are only two parties to pick from in this country, because that is all the media and seated (bi-partisan) puppets talk about. Does anyone know without looking it up, how many OFFICIAL political parties there are in the United States? I bet not. The answer? 54 Political Parties, NOT INCLUDING the two major parties. The third biggest, or most popular party? The Libertarian Party from what I can surmise based on facts and representation. So, why do YOU PEOPLE settle for not hearing from any but two, failure, back-biting, lying, corrupt parties?!?!? http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

May 15, 2006, 11:52 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	Soapbox? Lol! "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

May 16, 2006, 12:24 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,792	The majority of my average day is spent performing tasks that are mind-numbingly dull, repetitive and often unappreciated. If that was all I could look forward to every day, I'd take both the blue pill and the red pill and wash them down with the Kool-Aid. I come here to recharge my mental batteries. Have I expanded my knowledge any? Some, but not too often. Have I learned anything I didn't know before? Not yet. Has anything changed my mind since joining? No. What I've enjoyed best is being able to defend points of view I previously was reluctant to talk about, either because I felt it inappropriate or because I didn't want to risk inciting violence toward myself. Discussing homosexuality and atheism in a venue like this is both more rewarding and less dangerous than sitting in a booth at the local Ho-Jo's. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

May 16, 2006, 01:01 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	I have modified my stance on some things, but not radically so. I try to be informed before I say anything or try like hell to keep my mouth shut (not easy). The main thing I get from all this is probably the opportunity to look at things from another perspective. Not that I'll change my mind, mind you. I can bend a little on a position but it's not in my nature to break. Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.