Wheat and corn do not have brains so they are not conscious of their existence in the first place.Quote by: Angry Citizen
Wheat and corn do not have brains so they are not conscious of their existence in the first place.
Is a bee conscious of its existence?
Serious as a heart attack...
...and twice as deadly.
Maybe we don't have arghlblarghls and are subsequently not aware of the perception of snurgleblurgle.
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
-- Stephen Crane
You've convinced me I'm going to hell for murder if I don't become morally superior to the morally superior vegans. Fruitarianism for me. No seed killer here. Let there be LIFE. Death to the murderous vegans who have descended from eating meat to justify killing animals to the exclusive eating of all parts of plants including seeds to justify killing plants. The path that comes from one murder is clear.
"…[I]f once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination. Once begin upon this downward path, you never know where you are to stop. Many a man has dated his ruin from some murder or other that perhaps he thought little of at the time." ~ Thomas De Quincey
Last edited by minorwork; 14th June 2012 at 03:48 AM.
If the terrain and the map do not agree, follow the terrain.
When motherhood becomes the fruit of a deep yearning, not the result of ignorance or accident, its children will become a new race.
The being that feels the pain cares. Nobody said pain is intrinsically bad, but it intrinsically hurts. Prolonged pain, aka suffering, hurts more. I can and do empathize with people OR creatures that experience this and choose not to participate in buying/eating meat. A animal raised for human consumption feels pain, suffering and then death, choice is not a factor in it's life while corn has no purpose other to be eaten, yes? Sure, a vegan 'murders' corn, steps on ants, probably contributes to killing gofers when veggies are harvested. Hypocrisy is a part of life, no one is free from it's clutches! It's less about that and more about learning new information and then making different choices. And just maybe extending your circle of compassion to those who need it.
I think the disagreement is on this idea of objective purpose. Because a cow can feel pain it has purpose?
Unless you are bringing in some kind of supernatural meaning into the mix, the only "purpose" I see between both is the same: to pass on its genes to the next generation. The evolutionary road has just taken two different paths.
Serious as a heart attack...
...and twice as deadly.
Yes.
Such a nonsensical meaningless statement. I suspect you were unable to come up with an argument so you decided to respond with blabbering. Wheat and corn do not have consciousness or perception. Humans have consciousness and perception. It does not matter what we are perceptive the fact is we are perceptive. Wheat and corn are not.
Cows can feel pain. What a ludicrous statement.
I'd like to see this "proof." Reactivity doesn't equal pain.
Corn and wheat have no self-interest. They lack any evidence of self-awareness or anticipation of futurity.
How do you know? How is this meaningful?
You miss his point entirely. You say wheat and corn do not have consciousness or perception. He is asking why consciousness or perception should matter.Such a nonsensical meaningless statement. I suspect you were unable to come up with an argument so you decided to respond with blabbering. Wheat and corn do not have consciousness or perception. Humans have consciousness and perception. It does not matter what we are perceptive the fact is we are perceptive. Wheat and corn are not.
Why should we base our ethics on that criteria? We could instead choose to assign moral importance based on containing chloroplasts, which animal cells lack but plant cells have. In this case only an anti-vegan diet would be ethical.
If you do not have a REASON why consciousness or perception are objectively important than you do not have a sound argument.
EDIT:
I of course agree that cows can feel pain. What I call into question is that the ability to "feel pain" is the criteria by which we determine that we have a moral responsibility to a thing.Cows can feel pain. What a ludicrous statement.
Does a bee feel pain? Is a bee's pain at all the same as a cow's? Why does a bee not seem to mind killing itself to defend the hive? Does it experience sorrow or negative emotions/feelings in its own sacrifice?
We can't know. Even if we could, we still would have to have reasoning for why this matters in determining if an animal or object is morally significant.
Serious as a heart attack...
...and twice as deadly.
Correct, feeling pain does not equal purpose and in evolutionary terms, yes, they both pass on their genes.
I meant to say that animals make choices, they have desires, likes and dislikes and if left alone, they would live a 'life' so to speak independent of us. Corn does not exhibit those traits. Corn simply grows and then, if not maintained and harvested, dies. It does not sense pain, and it contains many of the nutrients our bodies need, so eating it does not pose a moral dilemma.
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