The stupidity of "Saving the empovershed by empoverishing their counterparts..."

[Dodds]

Your whole article boiled down to 'the rich are evil and everyone else deserves their money'. Did I get the "sad but true story of wages in America"? Don't get me wrong...I'm not opposed to people earning a decent wage, but I didn't see any details in your article about any particular jobs just that in general productivity has increased while wages haven't....and? I bet other costs have increased too along with advances in technology making people more efficient overall...so because people are working more efficiently they just magically deserve more money?

Historically in the USA that has been the case, along with technological advancements. Until the 1970s.

http://www.newschool.edu/scepa/publi...le%20wages.pdf

So basically you are a part of the problem that is killing the American dream. So in answer to your question, yes they deserve more. It is what the USA was founded on.

Why isn't it the norm?

A lot of reasons. Stagnant wages being one of them, a lack of investment by the government in social programs, a lack of access to further education, lack of investment by the private sector, the demise of union membership and many many others.

Have people forgotten how to fend for themselves and aren't taking responsibility for their own actions?

As has been asked of you before and your answer was pretty stupid, how can you say someone is responsible for where they are born, what their parents income is and to what social-political environment they were brought up in??? Answer that and then go on about personal responsibility. Its a bullshit argument that ignores all data, general common sense and personal circumstance.

[grandpa]

Historically in the USA that has been the case, along
with technological advancements.
Until the 1970s.

Economy-wise, it's like we've been hit by suicide planes every year after 9-11 as well. I remember when all our economic problems had such simple explanations.

So long as the rich are taken care of faithfully. That's my concern.

Grandpa h.

[Dodds]

Economy-wise, it's like we've been hit by suicide planes every year after 9-11 as well. I remember when all our economic problems had such simple explanations.

So long as the rich are taken care of faithfully. That's my concern.

Grandpa h.

Oh me too, after all high and continued unemployment, low social mobility, tent cities and the destruction of already inadequate social safety nets is a price worth paying so long as the top 1% get a tax break.

[Dieval]

Historically in the USA that has been the case, along with technological advancements. Until the 1970s.

http://www.newschool.edu/scepa/publi...le%20wages.pdf

So basically you are a part of the problem that is killing the American dream. So in answer to your question, yes they deserve more. It is what the USA was founded on.

I'm part of the "problem that is killing the American dream" by wanting people to take part in the "American dream" and make their own decisions and take an active part in their own lives direction. Yeah, OK. You're promoting big-government and a lack of responsibility (NOT responsibility for where someone was born or what their parents do but AFTER they have become an adult and need to take care of their own business). So, in my view, it sounds like you don't know what the "American dream" is.

A lot of reasons. Stagnant wages being one of them

You know, I didn't like the "stagnant wages" at McDonalds so I moved on to something better...imagine that..

, a lack of investment by the government in social programs, a lack of access to further education, lack of investment by the private sector, the demise of union membership and many many others.

We don't need more government programs. Plenty of people have access to "further education" - you just want someone else to pick up their tab - again, something I don't agree with. What types of investment would you like to see in the private sector? I'm not a big fan of most unions so their "demise" is not a bad thing, IMO.

As has been asked of you before and your answer was pretty stupid, how can you say someone is responsible for where they are born, what their parents income is and to what social-political environment they were brought up in???

I never said that anyone was responsible for those things (as I've repeated over and over and you refuse to acknowledge)....HOWEVER, there comes a time in your life where you're an adult and you need to stand up on your own two feet and take control of your life and it's direction. You're not responsible for where you're born, but you are responsible for where you end up. You're not responsible for your parents income but you are responsible for yours. (Again, these things apply once you're an adult).

[Dodds]

I'm part of the "problem that is killing the American dream" by wanting people to take part in the "American dream" and make their own decisions and take an active part in their own lives direction. Yeah, OK. You're promoting big-government and a lack of responsibility (NOT responsibility for where someone was born or what their parents do but AFTER they have become an adult and need to take care of their own business). So, in my view, it sounds like you don't know what the "American dream" is.

The American dream is that your children will have a higher standard of living than yourself, and that everyone has the opportunity to climb the social ladder. Its stupid, failed, ignorant opinions like yours that kill that dream. So yes you are a massive part of the problem. The upbringing thing I shall deal with later.

You know, I didn't like the "stagnant wages" at McDonalds so I moved on to something better...imagine that..

Which also has stagnant wages. I see you did not read my link. Oh my imagine that, actual evidence that disproves your assertions and proves mine and you don't read it. Don't let the facts get in the way of your failed ideological belief system.

We don't need more government programs.

You blatantly do.

Plenty of people have access to "further education" - you just want someone else to pick up their tab - again, something I don't agree with.

I actually don't, I just think that people who work the hardest should get the most reward. I guess that is something you disagree with.

What types of investment would you like to see in the private sector?

Investment in jobs, technology, training and job security for their overworked and underpaid workforce.

I'm not a big fan of most unions so their "demise" is not a bad thing, IMO.

Despite the obvious economic advantages, again don't let the facts get in the way of your beliefs.

I never said that anyone was responsible for those things (as I've repeated over and over and you refuse to acknowledge)....HOWEVER, there comes a time in your life where you're an adult and you need to stand up on your own two feet and take control of your life and it's direction.

This is just like breaking both of someones legs and then saying they have a fair chance to win a race. In other words, as I asserted before, your argument is bullshit.

You're not responsible for where you're born, but you are responsible for where you end up.

Do you accept that where you are born has an effect on where they end up?

You're not responsible for your parents income but you are responsible for yours. (Again, these things apply once you're an adult).

Do you accept that your parents income has an effect on where you end up? I guess you will say no. And that is why you and people like you are killing America and the American dream.

[Dieval]

The American dream is that your children will have a higher standard of living than yourself, and that everyone has the opportunity to climb the social ladder. Its stupid, failed, ignorant opinions like yours that kill that dream. So yes you are a massive part of the problem. The upbringing thing I shall deal with later.

ROFL Nice. I promote freedom, hard work, and responsibility and I'm the one that's killing the dream. You promote big government, hand outs, and a lack of responsibility and somehow the American dream will thrive...that's probably the stupidest thing I've heard.

Which also has stagnant wages. I see you did not read my link. Oh my imagine that, actual evidence that disproves your assertions and proves mine and you don't read it. Don't let the facts get in the way of your failed ideological belief system.

Your "evidence" suggest that McDonalds doesn't pay well? Holy shit?! Who'd uh thunk it!

You blatantly do.

I've never suggested such, so you're obviously wrong here.

I actually don't, I just think that people who work the hardest should get the most reward. I guess that is something you disagree with.

That's a pretty broad and vague statement, but it sounds like it has good intentions.

Investment in jobs, technology, training and job security for their overworked and underpaid workforce.

You get out in to the real world much? That happens.

Despite the obvious economic advantages, again don't let the facts get in the way of your beliefs.

"economic advantages"? For who?

This is just like breaking both of someones legs and then saying they have a fair chance to win a race. In other words, as I asserted before, your argument is bullshit.

Your analogy is so far off base that it doesn't deserve a response.

Do you accept that where you are born has an effect on where they end up?

No. If you have the drive and determination you can get anywhere you want...that being said, most people don't have that drive or determination and blame others for their circumstances (just like you're doing).

Do you accept that your parents income has an effect on where you end up? I guess you will say no. And that is why you and people like you are killing America and the American dream.

You're right - NO. Another personal experience: My friend came from a very very poor family. Lived off of government welfare. Parents involved with lots of drugs and very uncaring about their children. My friend will be graduating college this week, paid for by taking out loans that my friend is responsible for repaying - not waiting for a handout from the government. My friend took it upon them self to change their circumstances and make their life better. I have the utmost respect and am very proud of this person for not letting their circumstances get the best of them.

Bitching and moaning about not being responsible for their circumstances accomplishes nothing at all.

[Dodds]

ROFL Nice. I promote freedom, hard work, and responsibility and I'm the one that's killing the dream. You promote big government, hand outs, and a lack of responsibility and somehow the American dream will thrive...that's probably the stupidest thing I've heard.

Nice I provide facts to back up my position you go on about freedom. I doubt you know what freedom is.

Lets look at other facts, the countries with the highest rates of social mobility are social democracies. Your answer is the most ignorant thing you have posted.

Your "evidence" suggest that McDonalds doesn't pay well? Holy shit?! Who'd uh thunk it!

Again from this I can see you have not read it. Again no surprise. Why let the facts get in the way of your belief structure.

I've never suggested such, so you're obviously wrong here.

So you are the fountain of all knowledge in the USA? My giddy aunt you guys are fucked.

That's a pretty broad and vague statement, but it sounds like it has good intentions.

So you agree with the principles of socialism. Thats good.

You get out in to the real world much? That happens.

Not even nearly enough. As tax rates for the rich fall so does investment. Again fact.

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/pub...-eating-it-too

Seems your "real world" consists of your fantasies and beliefs.

"economic advantages"? For who?

The entire economy.

Your analogy is so far off base that it doesn't deserve a response.

Your ignorance knows no bounds. It is common sense that a child with a private tutor and who goes to a good school has more opportunity than another child who doesn't. Deal with it.

No. If you have the drive and determination you can get anywhere you want...that being said, most people don't have that drive or determination and blame others for their circumstances (just like you're doing).

Stats back me up, what you do is bury your head in the sand and talk bollocks.

You're right - NO. Another personal experience: My friend came from a very very poor family. Lived off of government welfare. Parents involved with lots of drugs and very uncaring about their children. My friend will be graduating college this week, paid for by taking out loans that my friend is responsible for repaying - not waiting for a handout from the government. My friend took it upon them self to change their circumstances and make their life better. I have the utmost respect and am very proud of this person for not letting their circumstances get the best of them.

Bitching and moaning about not being responsible for their circumstances accomplishes nothing at all.

And ignoring data and talking about handouts(you don't even know what I would advocate and just say big government) is nothing more than ignoring facts and blaming someone for something that is not their fault.

And btw your "friend" will have a lower rate of income than someone who would have the same qualification in the 60s. His or her wage will have stagnated. Fact.

[grandpa]

Oh me too, after all high and continued unemployment, low
social mobility, tent cities and the destruction of already inadequate
social safety nets is a price worth paying so long
as the top 1% get a tax break.

Interestingly enough, these days "conservatives" have a harder time replying with "WHERE?" and leaving it at that. Of course, some will still do that.

But here's some food for thought:
"The United States should participate in the reconstruction of Haiti
by forcing the Federal
Reserve to free up an initial tranche of $100 billion in the form of
0% Federal credit for US
exports to Haiti via the US Export-Import Bank. The $100 billion
line of credit already promised by Obama to the IMF should be
commandeered and diverted to Haiti for this purpose. Nations with
industrial capacity should be strongly encouraged to join in this
effort on the basis of parity and equality."
http://rense.com/general89/savehati.htm

People don't often enough ask themselves, "What are the options before you?" It isn't just the RICH 1%, either.

Grandpa h.

[Dieval]

Nice I provide facts to back up my position you go on about freedom. I doubt you know what freedom is.

You haven't provided "facts". You've provided papers written by people who support your position, however, that doesn't make their view a "fact". Sorry.

Lets look at other facts, the countries with the highest rates of social mobility are social democracies. Your answer is the most ignorant thing you have posted.

Back to the whole socialist mentality again...imagine that.

So you are the fountain of all knowledge in the USA? My giddy aunt you guys are fucked.

Only because of people like you.

So you agree with the principles of socialism. Thats good.

No. Apparently we have different views of what hard work is and how it's rewarded....imagine that.

Not even nearly enough. As tax rates for the rich fall so does investment. Again fact.

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/pub...-eating-it-too

Seems your "real world" consists of your fantasies and beliefs.

I'm not Canadian, so try again. The companies I have worked for (except McDonalds) have promoted training for their employees and have covered the costs of multiple classes to improve their employees...funny how this happened at the large companies that people like you hate so much... again, imagine that.

Your ignorance knows no bounds. It is common sense that a child with a private tutor and who goes to a good school has more opportunity than another child who doesn't. Deal with it.

It's common sense that everyone comes from different family and you're fighting a losing battle trying to make everyone come from equal places...why do you want to remove people's individuality and freedom?
Stop telling people they can't and won't succeed because they've been dealt a losing hand and let them know that they have freedom to do whatever they want with their lives.

And ignoring data and talking about handouts(you don't even know what I would advocate and just say big government) is nothing more than ignoring facts and blaming someone for something that is not their fault.

So what do you advocate?

And btw your "friend" will have a lower rate of income than someone who would have the same qualification in the 60s. His or her wage will have stagnated. Fact.

And? Are you suggesting that people who come right out of college should make $1.5 million/year rather than the $35/40k they'll probably make?

[grandpa]

Nice I provide facts to back up my position you
go on about freedom.
I doubt you know what freedom is.

It's just too fun to play with words, isn't it? Certain people advocate "freedom," but freedom as defined by the state and by the wealthy.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

You haven't provided "facts".
You've provided papers written by people who support your position,
however, that doesn't make their view a "fact".

Yes, but what parts are they making up? Did they say, for example, that satellite dishes are the state flower of Michigan? Using your style of dismissal, one could say the same thing about all generations -- past, present and future. We're all wrong if we quote sources we agree with, right?

Grandpa h.

[Dodds]

You haven't provided "facts". You've provided papers written by people who support your position, however, that doesn't make their view a "fact". Sorry.

I am afraid that the papers I have provided are peer reviewed and are indeed facts. Sorry. Your idiotic belief system is wrong.

Back to the whole socialist mentality again...imagine that.

Just trying to teach you what it actually is.

Only because of people like you.

You mean people who know things? Well we are fuckers us people in the know.

No. Apparently we have different views of what hard work is and how it's rewarded....imagine that.

And here you once more show your ignorance. Fancy that. The bastion of all knowledge in the USA again showing ignorance.

I'm not Canadian, so try again. The companies I have worked for (except McDonalds) have promoted training for their employees and have covered the costs of multiple classes to improve their employees...funny how this happened at the large companies that people like you hate so much... again, imagine that.

Thats funny, a former work colleague of mine started behind the counter at Mucky Ds and worked her way up to shop manager. And once more you ignore the data. Funny that also.

Also some data from the USA.

http://econographia.com/post/1526140...crease-private

WOW look at that I was right again. Bet you ignore it.

It's common sense that everyone comes from different family and you're fighting a losing battle trying to make everyone come from equal places...why do you want to remove people's individuality and freedom?

Deny it? I am trying to promote it. You won't understand that though as you already know everything lol.

Stop telling people they can't and won't succeed because they've been dealt a losing hand and let them know that they have freedom to do whatever they want with their lives.

Whos telling them that? I am just pointing out the facts. Deal with it.

In fact most people in the USA believe that social mobility is possible. Just a pity the figures don't back up that belief. Again its people like you who destroy that belief by doing nothing about it.

So what do you advocate?

Graduate tax at earnings over $37000.

And? Are you suggesting that people who come right out of college should make $1.5 million/year rather than the $35/40k they'll probably make?

And????AND?????

Also your point is outstandingly ignorant and stupid.