The Benefits of Peaceful Protest

[iolo]

Those pro-zionists not wholly committed to the Final solution of the Palestinian Problem frequently urge this suffering people to adopt non-violent methods of getting their case heard. Currently two thousand of the prisoners of the colonial régime who have been locked up without trial are on hunger strike, and seven have been moved to the prison medical centre, including two who have been on hunger strike for 59 days and are presumably close to death. The zionist authorities are punishing the protesters by putting them in solitary confinement and denying them family visits. All is well, however: their plight finally made a small paragraph at the bottom of Page 29 in the Guardian. The free press of the USA is doubtless giving them far greater publicity!

[iolo]

Those pro-zionists not wholly committed to the Final solution of the Palestinian Problem frequently urge this suffering people to adopt non-violent methods of getting their case heard. Currently two thousand of the prisoners of the colonial régime who have been locked up without trial are on hunger strike, and seven have been moved to the prison medical centre, including two who have been on hunger strike for 59 days and are presumably close to death. The zionist authorities are punishing the protesters by putting them in solitary confinement and denying them family visits. All is well, however: their plight finally made a small paragraph at the bottom of Page 29 in the Guardian. The free press of the USA is doubtless giving them far greater publicity!

And so far it has no responses either.

[Senor Hoint]

I have trouble believing that violence is justified most of the time. One of my close friends commonly argues that the violence employed by the Palestinians is somehow justified, but I don't really see it. The victims of the violence are people just like the Palestinians.

Of course, Gandhi's tactics wouldn't have worked against the Nazis. I'm not saying this situation is so extreme, but if you look at the casualty figures they are quite lopsided in favor of the Israelis. My Jewish friends who tend to support Israel (largely out of ignorance, in my opinion) tend to emphasize Palestinian terrorism without realizing or fully appreciating the crimes of the Israelis against the Palestinians.

[barts]

Like most people, I suspect, I begin with both an abhorrence of violence being used to achieve a political ends. The facts are, however, that many political gains are not possible until violence is used. Of course, it might be useful to define violence. We live in an age where merely photographing a police officer can be deemed a terrorist act, and subject to legal sanctions.

Israel deplores the violence used by the Palestinians, yet Israel is a nation born out of violence. The same can be said for the United States. I doubt civil rights would have made much progress in the US without violence. Apartheid in South Africa was, in part, defeated because of violence.

Are there some examples of national liberation or political gain where violence did not play a major role? Perhaps. India comes to mind. But such example are rare.

Generally, in politics and economics when there are fundamental issues at stake, it is sad to observe that until there is violence meaningful negotiations don't take place.

In the case of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, I'm confident that Israel will never negotiate in good faith in the absence of either violence that it fears rises to the level of existential threat, or the United States withdraws financial and material support for the Israeli military. At present, Israel has no intention of giving back even one square metre of land to the Palestinians.

The political fact is that in many situations violence not only works, but also it is the only means to an end.

[Senor Hoint]

I doubt civil rights would have made much progress in the US without violence.

I'm not sure I understand this calculation. Do you mean violence on the part of the established power structure? The overt violence against peaceful demonstrators was, in my view, one of the (if not the) decisive factor in swinging public opinion towards civil rights.

[barts]

I'm not sure I understand this calculation. Do you mean violence on the part of the established power structure? The overt violence against peaceful demonstrators was, in my view, one of the (if not the) decisive factor in swinging public opinion towards civil rights.

I'm not sure that civil rights in America would have made much progress if the cities weren't burned and riots didn't happen. Until those in power fear for their continuation, they tend not to negotiate.

As for violence and civil rights, one of the causes of the Civil War (or so we like to believe) was the emancipation of slaves.

This is an interesting note,

They burned down churches as the Church of England was against what they wanted; they vandalised Oxford Street, apparently breaking all the windows in this famous street ... Politicians were attacked as they went to work. Their homes were fire bombed. Golf courses were vandalised.

This was all done by women trying get the right to vote in Britain. Would they have got the right vote without resorting to violence? Not unless, in my view, some external events meant that those in power needed women to have the right to vote to serve some other interest, as happened in Canada in 1917.

[Thanatos]

Burning things is one sure-fire way to get attention when you're being ignored.

However, most of the time it is more trouble than it is worth.

[grandpa]

Burning things is one sure-fire way to get attention
when you're being ignored.
However, most of the time it is more trouble than
it is worth.

Inevitably, some will either dismiss such acts as "terrorism," or as mere skits for attention. Sure, part of it is a response to being ignored, but there's an obvious component that's too often ignored: Anger at society, and its hypocrisy and lies. Where truth is told and people have more equal dignity and rights, troubles like destruction of property are bound to be reduced. Until this happens more, some will think it's worth doing.

Grandpa h.

[iolo]

My point would be that, by and large, only violence gets any attention whatever. Watch the news in most countries.