Can you blame someone for suicide?

[gripsocks]

Do you think it's right to blame someone else when someone commits suicide.

I personally believe you shouldn't. Suicide is a choice, no matter the scenario, it's suicide because
you took your life not someone else. I also think this "edge" people say they get pushed to is
fictional, and that there is no place where you can't stop yourself from killing yourself.

I know some people have diagnosed diseases or disorders which involuntarily affects their judgement,
I'm not talking about these cases.

Especially with this "Cyber-Bullying Crisis" that is apparently going on I think people are quick
to pass the blame.

What do you think?

[Night]

This is a pretty deep subject for me on a personal level. In the darker chapters of my life I attempted suicide, and only survived because I left the music in my hotel room on too loud. By the time paramedics arrived after the 911 call I had quit breathing and my heart was about to quit.

I'm very glad that I was not successful. At the time, however, I was thoroughly depressed. I was nearing the end of heroin withdrawal, which can cause the worst, soul-crushing depression one can ever experience. At that time, living felt so bad that I just wanted everything to be over. I didn't think I would ever feel better. I thought at the time that my life would only get worse. I didn't think I could stay off of drugs, and in a way I was right. I thought I'd become one of the homeless street junkies you see downtown here in Vegas, begging for change at gas stations. I didn't want to live like that. I had been estranged from my family, who couldn't understand why I kept using. I guess no one really can unless they've been in the same place.

To explain why it's nearly impossible for most drug users to "get clean", you have to understand a few things. Most drugs act by "mimicking" chemicals already in the body. Alcohol "mimics" GABA, which depresses the nervous system. When a person quits drugs, the body doesn't immediately go back to normal. With alcohol it takes a few days, but with heroin and painkillers, it can take well over a year. The only reason I'm "normal" right now is that I'm on ORT (opiate replacement therapy) with suboxone, similar to methadone.

I'm glad to be alive and away from all of that. It wasn't fun. People have this misconception that drug users merely use because they want to have fun. That may be true at the very beginning, but after a while, it stops being fun, and becomes necessary to feel shitty (as opposed to really shitty).

My reasons for suicide weren't really unique. I thought the rest of my life would suck so I decided to pull the plug. Fortunately it didn't work, and things have improved in unexpected ways. I found with suboxone I don't even have a desire to go back to using, which is a miracle.

To anyone contemplating suicide, I can't tell you what to do. All I can do is share my own experience and hope it helps you. There is almost nothing in life that doesn't change, whether it be for better or worse. When someone is contemplating suicide, they generally only consider things that will get worse. I think people should not commit suicide when they're depressed. Depression is a neurochemical effect, and in my own experience, it passes with time.

Suicide is a permanent solution to what are almost always temporary problems, blown out of proportion.

There are better solutions.

[BlackSheep]

Do you think it's right to blame someone else when someone commits suicide.

I personally believe you shouldn't. Suicide is a choice, no matter the scenario, it's suicide because
you took your life not someone else. I also think this "edge" people say they get pushed to is
fictional, and that there is no place where you can't stop yourself from killing yourself.

I know some people have diagnosed diseases or disorders which involuntarily affects their judgement,
I'm not talking about these cases.

Especially with this "Cyber-Bullying Crisis" that is apparently going on I think people are quick
to pass the blame.

What makes you think that these cases have nothing to do with these diseases or disorders? Different situation effect people very differently. Odds are it is not as simple to say it was the cyber bullying. Odds are it was much more. Likely they are susceptible to these types of things and they have a troubled home life. Keep in mind people with things like a troubled home live rarely advertise in it and if they do it is lost in the petty complaints of the average teen.

What do you think?

I suffer from depression that was brought on by a failed marriage and then extended by an ugly divorce, criminal charges, being fired and a lot more. Before these things I would have laughed at the idea I would have every become depressed. I have never been suicidal and I am thankful for that. If I had been I would not likely be here to type this.

I think humans like to blame things. The seem to like blame a single thing or person and generally this is far too simplistic, but on the other hand people need to realize there are people out there who are on the edge and something like bullying is not something we should tolerate.

[Darklordabc]

In most cases of sucide, the shame is on the person jumping of the chair. But in very few cases, you can blame someone. Like you would probably be right to blame that austrian rapist father, IF his daughter had actually killed herself. A certain level of suffering justifies non-existence.

[BlackSheep]

In most cases of sucide, the shame is on the person jumping of the chair. But in very few cases, you can blame someone. Like you would probably be right to blame that austrian rapist father, IF his daughter had actually killed herself. A certain level of suffering justifies non-existence.

I find your statement "In most cases of sucide, the shame is on the person jumping of the chair" insensitive and ignorant.

I have known a few people who were suicidal and who attempted suicide. I knew them well. I can't imagine you knew anyone well who did or you would not make such a statement. Suicide is said by some to be the easy way out. Trust me when I say there is nothing easy about ending your life for most people. Often suicidal people are driven mad by the desire to kill themselves, but they can not bring themselves to do it.

People in general do not attempt suicide because they are lazy, selfish or inconsiderate it is because they are tormented. It is because for whatever reasons life for them seems to much to bear. It seems to them often that death is far preferable, because nothing could be worse. I helped my partner at the time through a phase like this. It is not rational. The suffering is not even objectively worse than others, but that is how mental states worked. I am odd in that I suffer from depression and never have had a suicidal thought. I on the other hand have felt the relenting desperation of knowing life is not going t get better. It was wrong of course, but at the time it is your reality. I simply wanted to curl up in a ball and cease to exist. At that point you are generally convinced everyone would be better off without you. You feel you are waste of food, air and peoples time.

[Darklordabc]

People in general do not attempt suicide because they are lazy, selfish or inconsiderate it is because they are tormented.

Ya everbody is tormented in some parts of there life, but not everbody commits suicide. So why do some actually do while others just suffer through it? The answer will most likely still bring shame upon the suicider.
Let me explain:
Ignorance: The people actually think life wont get better - In everday life, ignorance is shameful. If i dont know the capital of my coutnry because of ignorance, then the shame is on me. Just because somebody commits sucide because their ignorant of the fact that life will get better, doesnt automatically make there ignorance justifed.
Selfishness: Most people who suffer, and DONT commit suicide, dont do it because they cant stand the pain it will cause for their family/friends. So we must assume the suicider either didnt consider their family/friends or felt there suffering was worst then the suffering there family/friends would go through. Either they didnt consider (ignorance) or they didnt care enough (selfishness) its still shame on them.
Foolishness: This is partly covered in Ignorance, but im refering to attention seeking attemps that follow through, or trying to get revenge against your ex, or something petty like that. This too is shameful

The only non-shameful way to commit suicide is when life really is consistently horrific and rationally likely to continue that way. I want to disrespet the dead, but we should be honest about the sensibility of their suicide, at least for the sake of other people considering it. In other words, if we excuse their actions, arent we sorta making it more acceptable?

[BlackSheep]

Ya everbody is tormented in some parts of there life, but not everbody commits suicide. So why do some actually do while others just suffer through it? The answer will most likely still bring shame upon the suicider.

For the same reason that different people jumping over the same stream will have different results. Some will make it without a hitch, some will hit the mud at the edge of the stream, some will fall in and get soaked, some will break a leg and others will slip, fall and strike there head and drown in the few inches of water.

The mind is a very complex thing. Some people have fears that are overwhelming and devastating to them. Some are morbidly shy. Some are drawn to danger and they are all diferent.

Let me explain:
Ignorance: The people actually think life wont get better - In everday life, ignorance is shameful. If i dont know the capital of my coutnry because of ignorance, then the shame is on me. Just because somebody commits sucide because their ignorant of the fact that life will get better, doesnt automatically make there ignorance justifed.

I can speak directly to this. I have been depressed for over 10 years and I struggle with this almost every day. I struggle with cognitive behavior techniques to convince my emotional side that what my emotional side focuses on is not all there is. I am very aware on an intellectual level that things can and will get better, but the emotional side is not and without a constant battle to counter those feelings it can overwhelm me. This is not ignorance in any way, shape or form. It is not shameful in any way, shape or form. I am proud of what I have and am dealing with. It is not easy and I hope you never understand it first hand.

Selfishness: Most people who suffer, and DONT commit suicide, dont do it because they cant stand the pain it will cause for their family/friends. So we must assume the suicider either didnt consider their family/friends or felt there suffering was worst then the suffering there family/friends would go through. Either they didnt consider (ignorance) or they didnt care enough (selfishness) its still shame on them.

As I stated in my last post. They frequently feel they are a horrible burden on their friends and family and in many cases this is actually demonstrated to them day after day. People, even families often have no idea how to help someone like this and so avoid them or react to them as you are now, but telling them they are ignorant, selfish or foolish. Friends will abandon them. My ex-girlfriend to this day tells me I saved her life because I didn't judge her and I didn't abandon her like everyone else did. It is a shame people kill themselves over this, but the shame does not lay with them. I don't blame their friends or family or them. It is not a matter of blame. It is a matter of a human being struggling and trying to find help and no one knowing how to help them.

Foolishness: This is partly covered in Ignorance, but im refering to attention seeking attemps that follow through, or trying to get revenge against your ex, or something petty like that. This too is shameful

I have no direct experience here. I would assume there is more to it than meet they eye. If someone is ready to trade their life for some vengeance I suggest there is more going on than just that.

The only non-shameful way to commit suicide is when life really is consistently horrific and likely to continue that way. I dont mind to disrespet the dead, but we should be honest about the sensibility of their suicide, at least for the sake of other people considering it. In other words, if we excuse their actions, arent we sorta making it more acceptable?

The problem is you want to judge objectively what they are incapable of. When you are down there everything is subjective and objectivity is are very hard commodity to come by.

People do not simply consider suicide. They are driven to it. It is not an easy road and I think there are far more important issues to deal with than shaming the dead. I think we need to try to really understand what is going on and help them instead of calling them Ignorant, selfish and foolish.

[Darklordabc]

So you think there are no circumstances where commiting suicide is shameful? That what it sounds like

[GeekyBatman]

I think it is probably wrong to blame someone else for someone committing suicide, because they couldn't possibly (at least, it's highly doubtful) that they knew what they were doing could lead to suicide. Most likely because they didn't even think about that possibility.

But, yes, to be perfectly honest. At least, there are people who probably shoulder some of the blame for someone else committing suicide. In those cases of cyber bullying for instance, let's be honest- their bullying led those people to suicide, even if it wasn't the only reason behind the suicides. Sure, the person who committed suicide made the decision to commit suicide, when they certainly didn't have to, but if they weren't being bullied, or they weren't being abused, or they weren't whatever, would they have ever made the decision to commit suicide? Maybe, but also maybe not. It's all very circumstantial, but I do feel there are cases where someone can be blamed (not toally, but partially) for someone else committing suicide.

[GeekyBatman]

So you think there are no circumstances where commiting suicide is shameful? That what it sounds like

My opinion on this is that yes, suicide can be shameful, of course. I almost always have empathy for those who are suicidal, have attempted suicide, or have committed suicide, but at the end of the day, they surely left behind people who loved them and will be hurt over their suicide, and will have to live with that loss for the rest of their lives. Still, though, my empathy typically outweighs that bit of blame, except in the instance of a parent committing suicide. I can't help but feel anger towards people who have children, but commit suicide and leave their children behind.

[BlackSheep]

So you think there are no circumstances where commiting suicide is shameful? That what it sounds like

I honestly can't think of a situation where someone tries to take their own life where they are not under massive horrific stress.

[BlackSheep]

My opinion on this is that yes, suicide can be shameful, of course. I almost always have empathy for those who are suicidal, have attempted suicide, or have committed suicide, but at the end of the day, they surely left behind people who loved them and will be hurt over their suicide, and will have to live with that loss for the rest of their lives. Still, though, my empathy typically outweighs that bit of blame, except in the instance of a parent committing suicide. I can't help but feel anger towards people who have children, but commit suicide and leave their children behind.

In general when I hear of stories of how a person has committed suicide and left family members behind I realize how terrible they must have felt to do that.