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Thread: Are Unhappiness and Discontent Byproducts of Knowledge?

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    Thread Killer Muckraker's Avatar
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    Are Unhappiness and Discontent Byproducts of Knowledge?

    For the purposes of this thread, the term "knowledge" describes the grandiose and general - such as knowing the history of the Mayan civilization - as well as the specific, petty, and mundane - such as knowing who shot a spitball at you.

    I've always been an analytical and critical thinker but I've noticed that, as I grow older, I have been more proactively filtering out some sources of "knowledge."

    When I was younger, I recall joking with one of my critical friends about ignorance and religion. I said that I wished I could be religious because the world becomes much simpler and--well--religious people just look happy.

    I've observed a trend over the years. I am happy and content with/about something but then I acquire knowledge that causes discontent with that thing. There are ample examples of this happening for me, whereas the examples of knowledge yielding a greater happiness are scarce.

    So today I find myself filtering. For instance, I never watch or read "the news." I feel 95% of "news" causes purposeless discontent and unhappiness - it lacks utility and doesn't lead to derivative knowledge of value.

    Is it wrong to want a brain uncluttered by negative knowledge doing nothing but spreading itself and taking up space?

    My goal is to not turn out like my father - an extremely knowledgeable and bitter old man, muttering about the stupidity of the world and consumed by a compulsion to seek out the knowledge that confirms and further increases his discontent. I also don't want to be like my knowledgeable sister - a "Debbie Downer" incapable of enjoying anything because of the extensive research that must be done to prove it can not, and should not, be enjoyable.

    So that's the question: Is it wrong to eat fruit from the tree of knowledge only after you've cut off the bruised parts, washed it, and removed the pit?

    "It seems foolhardy, redolent of danger, and doomed to failure. Otherwise, I can find no fault with it." --Dickens (Nicholas Nickleby)

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    Stephen Best barts's Avatar
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    Are you not arguing that "Ignorance is Bliss"?

    Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College
    Thomas Gray

    Ye distant spires, ye antique towers
    That crown the watery glade,
    Where grateful Science still adores
    Her Henry's holy shade;
    And ye, that from the stately brow
    Of Windsor's heights th' expanse below
    Of grove, of lawn, of mead survey,
    Whose turf, whose shade, whose flowers among
    Wanders the hoary Thames along
    His silver-winding way:

    Ah, happy hills! ah, pleasing shade!
    Ah, fields belov'd in vain!
    Where once my careless childhood stray'd,
    A stranger yet to pain!
    I feel the gales that from ye blow
    A momentary bliss bestow,
    As waving fresh their gladsome wing,
    My weary soul they seem to soothe,
    And, redolent of joy and youth,
    To breathe a second spring.

    Say, Father Thames, for thou hast seen
    Full many a sprightly race
    Disporting on thy margin green
    The paths of pleasure trace—
    Who foremost now delight to cleave
    With pliant arm, thy glassy wave?
    The captive linnet which enthral?
    What idle progeny succeed
    To chase the rolling circle's speed
    Or urge the flying ball?

    While some on earnest business bent
    Their murmuring labours ply
    'Gainst graver hours that bring constraint
    To sweet liberty:
    Some bold adventurers disdain
    The limits of their little reign
    And unknown regions dare descry:
    Still as they run they look behind,
    They hear a voice in every wind,
    And snatch a fearful joy.

    Gay hope is theirs by fancy fed,
    Less pleasing when possest;
    The tear forgot as soon as shed,
    The sunshine of the breast:
    Theirs buxom health, of rosy hue,
    Wild wit, invention ever new,
    And lively cheer, of vigour born;
    The thoughtless day, the easy night,
    The spirits pure, the slumbers light
    That fly th' approach of morn.

    Alas! regardless of their doom,
    The little victims play;
    No sense have they of ills to come,
    Nor care beyond to-day:
    Yet see how all around 'em wait
    The ministers of human fate
    And black Misfortune's baleful train!
    Ah, show them where in ambush stand,
    To seize their prey, the murderous band!
    Ah, tell them they are men!

    These shall the fury Passions tear,
    The vultures of the mind,
    Disdainful Anger, pallid Fear,
    And Shame that skulks behind;
    Or pining Love shall waste their youth,
    Or Jealousy with rankling tooth
    That inly gnaws the secret heart,
    And Envy wan, and faded Care,
    Grim-visaged comfortless Despair,
    And Sorrow's piercing dart.

    Ambition this shall tempt to rise,
    Then whirl the wretch from high
    To bitter Scorn a sacrifice
    And grinning Infamy.
    The stings of Falsehood those shall try,
    And hard Unkindness' alter'd eye,
    That mocks the tear it forced to flow;
    And keen Remorse with blood defil'd,
    And moody Madness laughing wild
    Amid severest woe.

    Lo, in the vale of years beneath
    A griesly troop are seen,
    The painful family of Death,
    More hideous than their queen:
    This racks the joints, this fires the veins,
    That every labouring sinew strains,
    Those in the deeper vitals rage;
    Lo! Poverty, to fill the band
    That numbs the soul with icy hand,
    And slow-consuming Age.

    To each his sufferings: all are men,
    Condemn'd alike to groan—
    The tender for another's pain,
    Th' unfeeling for his own.
    Yet, ah! why should they know their fate,
    Since sorrow never comes too late,
    And happiness too swiftly flies?
    Thought would destroy their Paradise.
    No more;—where ignorance is bliss,
    'Tis folly to be wise
    .


    Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd - Voltaire

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    dead for tax reasons Peter's Avatar
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    Damn, Barts beat me to it.

    Far too often to my liking, ignorance is bliss.

    And yes, this is probably a major factor in the longevity of religion.

    Religion is poison because it asks us to give up our most precious faculty, which is that of reason, and to believe things without evidence. It then asks us to respect this, which it calls faith. - Christopher Hitchens

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    Sapere Aude Jack's Avatar
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    Yet "ignorance is bliss" is a conditional statement as we can see in barts' quote. "...where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise." Unfortunately for some of us, America is on the road to becoming such a place. In my little world of close friends and Internet connections, ignorance is not bliss, it is not folly to be wise, and education, life experience and gained knowledge is respected.

    On a larger scale, and perhaps more to the point that Muckraker is alluding to, sometimes knowledge can rob us of the ignorant and unenlightened wonder that children enjoy looking at the universe or a forest. Childlike wonder is enviable but isn't a state we are allowed to remain in all our lives. We can still catch glimpses of it, will ourselves to ignore what we know and enjoy a moment of pure wonder. But I wouldn't want to go through life that way. I still enjoy wonder and delight at the world around me, even though the giddiness of childlike wonder is tempered by the knowledge and experience I've accumulated throughout my life.



    The Forum Rules

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    [John F. Kennedy]
    The principal value of debate lies in the development of logical thought processes, and the ability to articulate your positions publicly.
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    The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
    [Terry Pratchett]

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    dead for tax reasons Peter's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Jack View Post
    Yet "ignorance is bliss" is a conditional statement as we can see in barts' quote. "...where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise." Unfortunately for some of us, America is on the road to becoming such a place. In my little world of close friends and Internet connections, ignorance is not bliss, it is not folly to be wise, and education, life experience and gained knowledge is respected.
    Hmmmm, do I want to be happy or respected? Tough call.

    On a larger scale, and perhaps more to the point that Muckraker is alluding to, sometimes knowledge can rob us of the ignorant and unenlightened wonder that children enjoy looking at the universe or a forest. Childlike wonder is enviable but isn't a state we are allowed to remain in all our lives. We can still catch glimpses of it, will ourselves to ignore what we know and enjoy a moment of pure wonder. But I wouldn't want to go through life that way. I still enjoy wonder and delight at the world around me, even though the giddiness of childlike wonder is tempered by the knowledge and experience I've accumulated throughout my life.
    Well said.

    Religion is poison because it asks us to give up our most precious faculty, which is that of reason, and to believe things without evidence. It then asks us to respect this, which it calls faith. - Christopher Hitchens

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    Stephen Best barts's Avatar
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    I wonder, does this all not raise the issue of what is "happiness". I find the modern notion of "happiness" as a constant state of a sort of dreamy, self-satisfied contentment with an ever-present fillip of slightly elevated pleasure slightly nauseating. Rings of Soma.

    True happiness, I suggest, occurs when there is no pursuit of it, or particular want of it. It is in incidental, not unwelcome, side effect of living so that one's life actually matters.

    Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd - Voltaire

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    blasphemer grandpa's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: barts View Post
    I wonder, does this all not raise the issue of
    what is "happiness".
    I find the modern notion of "happiness" as a constant
    state of a sort of dreamy, self-satisfied contentment with
    an ever-present fillip of slightly elevated pleasure slightly nauseating.
    This is not so much an issue with me, because I rarely feel "happy" in that sense. I do, however, often feel how nauseating life can be. Generally spekaing, I think happiness is a few fleeting moments.

    Grandpa h.

    Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.

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    Thread Killer Muckraker's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: barts View Post
    Are you not arguing that "Ignorance is Bliss"?
    I wouldn't go that far. Bliss is a strong word and ignorance there seems to imply a blanket ignorance.

    I'm proposing the concept that otherwise intelligent, critical, analytical, and knowledgeable thinkers essentially plug their ears and go "nah, nah, nah, nah," at the prospect of acquiring negative, unproductive (even counterproductive) knowledge. I'm talking about proactive and targeted ignorance.

    For instance, I deliberately decrease or eliminate my exposure to purposeless news about accidents and violence - pretty much The News in its entirety.

    While my friend rereads books and watches movies over and over, I prefer to purposefully avoid repeat exposure to that which I enjoy the most. If I remember such and such a movie from my teen years as one of the best movies I've ever seen then I make it a point to never watch that movie again. I don't want to know what I would think about it today.

    It probably seems counterintuitive but I believe that targeted and proactive ignorance actually facilitates the acquisition of purposeful knowledge.

    "It seems foolhardy, redolent of danger, and doomed to failure. Otherwise, I can find no fault with it." --Dickens (Nicholas Nickleby)

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    Sapere Aude Jack's Avatar
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    I see your point and really can't argue against willful, targeted ignorance. I, too, avoid watching certain news stories or reading certain posts online that I suspect will only annoy or upset me and provide no benefit. For example, on a social networking site recently someone posted a link to a news story about kids who terrorized and killed animals. I don't know the kids, it wasn't in my area and I certainly won't learn anything new about human nature by reading it, so I didn't click through.



    The Forum Rules

    Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
    [John F. Kennedy]
    The principal value of debate lies in the development of logical thought processes, and the ability to articulate your positions publicly.
    [Senator Dick Clark of Iowa]
    The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
    [Terry Pratchett]

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    Thread Killer Muckraker's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Jack View Post
    In my little world of close friends and Internet connections, ignorance is not bliss, it is not folly to be wise, and education, life experience and gained knowledge is respected.
    I can see this. There is great value in purposeful knowledge. But knowledge that has no value aside from diminishing contentedness?

    If you are eating your favorite ice-cream cone and you notice a tiny button and next to it the message, "Press this button to instantly know everything it took for this ice-cream cone to be in your hand right now," would you press the button? Is there any possible bit of knowledge that could increase your enjoyment of the cone? Is the promise of gained knowledge enough to possibly, and probably, decrease your happiness?

    But I wouldn't want to go through life that way. I still enjoy wonder and delight at the world around me, even though the giddiness of childlike wonder is tempered by the knowledge and experience I've accumulated throughout my life.
    But is this also true if you have the choice to gain or ignore purposeless knowledge that would definitely destroy your wonder?

    "It seems foolhardy, redolent of danger, and doomed to failure. Otherwise, I can find no fault with it." --Dickens (Nicholas Nickleby)

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    Thread Killer Muckraker's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Jack View Post
    For example, on a social networking site recently someone posted a link to a news story about kids who terrorized and killed animals. I don't know the kids, it wasn't in my area and I certainly won't learn anything new about human nature by reading it, so I didn't click through.
    Perfect example. I'm contending that the modern world supplies so much access to purposeless knowledge, and the push to acquire it, that a person - especially a thinker - can become so inundated that they lose the opportunity to acquire and further knowledge that is of use to them.

    "It seems foolhardy, redolent of danger, and doomed to failure. Otherwise, I can find no fault with it." --Dickens (Nicholas Nickleby)

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    Lobotomized Angry Citizen's Avatar
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    That's on you then. As a thinker, I filter purposeless knowledge and absorb useful knowledge. If you're depressed, it's not the result of knowledge. The more I understand my reality, the happier I am. Sometimes, for instance, when I'm walking around campus, I'll stop and think to myself just how happy I am, and how life itself is such an amazing experience, and how much more there is to discover. Anyone who can't share that experience just isn't looking hard enough.

    A man said to the universe:
    "Sir, I exist!"
    "However," replied the universe,
    "The fact has not created in me
    A sense of obligation."


    -- Stephen Crane

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