Concepts of Reality

[R.F.]

On Certain Structures of Reality


There are certain points of common argument I believe have been unfairly interpreted. Namely that our universe is somehow fine-tuned, and that humans are, by some means, a privileged species. Above all else that life has purpose.

First I think we should start with how we view the world through a secular technique. There is no dogma to accept in scientific observations. There are only explanations that are in reasonable accordance with the given evidence of a thing. It is with secular thought I hope to receive clarity on these topics. Although I suspect many “non-secular” ideas will attempt to explain these things as well

It seems to me, and I am no theoretical physicist, that our universe is very chaotic- on what grounds do some assume it was “finely tuned”.

I in no way think we are somehow privileged- in what way is a human more deserving of life than say a puppy?

I don’t claim our individual lives can’t be potentially meaningful; it seems however that if life had meaning- that all life would have meaning, so in asking “what’s the purpose of human life?” We would need to ask “what’s the purpose of a puppy’s life?” If we are the only one with purposeful lives, then refer to my second question.

[ozzie666]

i dont think that asking "whats the purpose of human life?" automatically puts us above anything. admittedly it seems to be that way with alot of people but i ask myself that question on the grounds that humans are not like any other creature on the planet, similar, but not the same. and this makes one curious to know if we have some sort of higher purpose? not suggesting that i believe there is. just another perspective per se.

[R.F.]

i dont think that asking "whats the purpose of human life?" automatically puts us above anything. admittedly it seems to be that way with alot of people but i ask myself that question on the grounds that humans are not like any other creature on the planet, similar, but not the same. and this makes one curious to know if we have some sort of higher purpose? not suggesting that i believe there is. just another perspective per se.

What then would you think gives humans a higher significance or value over other species? What attributes do we have that no other organsim has?

[ChimneySweep]

What then would you think gives humans a higher significance or value over other species? What attributes do we have that no other organsim has?

Self-awareness, i.e the ability to ask the very questions you are seeking answers to. The value is simply the holistic view it enables us to take, which is not to say it necessarily gives us higher value in all things.

[R.F.]

Self-awareness, i.e the ability to ask the very questions you are seeking answers to. The value is simply the holistic view it enables us to take, which is not to say it necessarily gives us higher value in all things.

self-awareness is a condition of consciousness- which is definately observable in the animal world

[Peter]

On Certain Structures of Reality


There are certain points of common argument I believe have been unfairly interpreted. Namely that our universe is somehow fine-tuned, and that humans are, by some means, a privileged species.

Fine tuners make the same mistake the puddle makes when it thinks, "look how perfectly this pothole was made around me".

Above all else that life has purpose.

Life does have purpose - to go on. At it's core, lifes purpose is just the result of the laws of chemical bonding which is how life began IMO. In other words, after replication got started no other purpose was ever needed to arrive at humans.

Instead of bemoaning the fact that we weren't give a purpose by some skydaddy we should be rejoicing that we are free to name our own purpose in the universe - be the captains of our destiny. I guess this frightens some people.

[sthack99]

admittedly it seems to be that way with alot of people but i ask myself that question on the grounds that humans are not like any other creature on the planet, similar, but not the same. and this makes one curious to know if we have some sort of higher purpose?

Not the same in what regard? Sure, humans possess things and attributes that, oh, let's say...plants do not. But the same can be said about the plant, so why not ask the very same question for it instead? Perhaps pine trees are the "superior" lifeform with the higher purpose. I mean, they can withstand just about any temperature, and they can sure out live any human.

[ozzie666]

Not the same in what regard? Sure, humans possess things and attributes that, oh, let's say...plants do not. But the same can be said about the plant, so why not ask the very same question for it instead? Perhaps pine trees are the "superior" lifeform with the higher purpose. I mean, they can withstand just about any temperature, and they can sure out live any human.

every single organism on the planet has attributes that may outshine a certain aspect of what it means to be human but i can garuntee you, there is a reason humans are at the top of the food chain.

we can make weapons (with individual moving parts) sophisticated tools (not just rocks) we can build homes and structures (not saying an animal doesnt but when have you seen an animal build a skyscraper?). although some may consider this a bad thing, (and im not saying it makes us better or worse but different) what about the human ability to mate for life, or at the opposite end of the scale, be completely independant for your entire life? no animals have jobs or currency or cars...

because we are able to do all of this stuff, it sets us apart. like i said not better, just different.

[sthack99]

every single organism on the planet has attributes that may outshine a certain aspect of what it means to be human but i can garuntee you, there is a reason humans are at the top of the food chain.

we can make weapons (with individual moving parts) sophisticated tools (not just rocks) we can build homes and structures (not saying an animal doesnt but when have you seen an animal build a skyscraper?). although some may consider this a bad thing, (and im not saying it makes us better or worse but different) what about the human ability to mate for life, or at the opposite end of the scale, be completely independant for your entire life? no animals have jobs or currency or cars...

because we are able to do all of this stuff, it sets us apart. like i said not better, just different.

Just because primates evolved to this point before any other mammal does not mean we were "chosen" or we are "special". This is just how things worked out.

[Charlatan]

Reality is that there just was a universe instead of there not being a universe. Probing around trying to explain a big bang or something that happened by chance is fruitless unless there is something to gain therein. There isn't, unless you want to create your own universe.

Reality is about struggle. Everything that exists in our universe struggles to do things, from black holes to meteors, to businessmen to starving people. Everything is supposed to struggle to exist, and exist as best it can.

[ozzie666]

Just because primates evolved to this point before any other mammal does not mean we were "chosen" or we are "special". This is just how things worked out.

i never said we were chosen. i said there's a reason we are at the top of the food chain, there's a reason we can do all of these things and other animals cant. because primates got lucky and came out on top, and we are reaping the rewards.

[Sum1sGruj]

To answer part of the OP, the universe is 'finely-tuned', meaning that it's ability to have life or even be so stable is due to many aligned variables.
The cosmological constant, for one, could be any degree of chaotic, but it instead is just almost uniform.

To answer another thing I've seen stated on here, though not completely relevant, is that humans are at the top, but evolution fails to explain why we are so dominant. At a certain point in human history, we somehow gained billions of neurons in our brains instantly. There is so much talk about other animals not fitting right in the theory of evolution, and yet us humans are the biggest problem of all. If that's not irony, I don't know what is