Blind people are blind. (my phylosophy)

[mind]

Ever since I joined here I thought to myself that I would be enlighten and maybe gain more knowledge than what I already poses. Since that is what I always do every time I learn about something new… be it relationships or a new electronic gadget, Or anything for that matter, I always learn something new and I learn something new or improve it. But I am amazed how a lot of people live hard lives when the answers to their “hard life” are right under their noses. As a matter of fact, most of them are stubborn close minded following the wrong path that they were taught by their parents or role models…. Disregarding if what they taught them was/is right or wrong. .. This in itself, there is nothing wrong with that, because we are humans. Hence, hitlers followers…. or any other follower following evil.

Which brings me to my main point here. I have not learned jack from here. I am religious and the only thing I have “learned” (or have been reminded off) here is how a lot of people live their life by putting others down. Hell, (yes I said hell) this reminds me when I use to put people down myself. I understand the rules of social animal behavior. Intimidate the other alpha male so you can enhance your pride and gain his females. And not just gain only his females but also gain from his prosperity too. Things like his dignity, pride, money… you name it. I know this 100% because I use to do that myself when I was younger. The evidence is there if you where to speak to guys who would look up to me and females who would drool over me. but i gained the knowledge if knowing that there is a balance in there somewhere where there is a phase… the alpha male is alpha for a period of time and the guy/female under the alpha male is there for a short time too. The alpha soon learns (or should learn) that being an alpha is a game of being able to do things to be alpha… like intimidate, be blunt…etc. same applies to the one under the alpha-- student becomes the teacher.

Both have their benefits where the alpha matures and the one under the alpha matures too. Hence, continuing the laws of socializing. The problem arises when one gets stuck in one place. Where the alpha keeps on being an alpha till old age or an alpha follower keeps on being a follower till old age. That is when things go to hell. And that is where I am getting at. The fucked up and confused thing about all that is that we are suppose to learn our path unconsciously. People require degrees to be able to understand that let alone the common people. lets not forget that we are being controlled by the government too. lol, it is better to live in a fantasy world. the difference is that it is easy to change but it is not when one cannot see the light. hmmm... at any rate...

In this forum the participators go against religion religiously. Painfully showing their inabilities or abilities when they say such things as like “god is a monkey.” The true reality is that there may be a god because, point blank, gravity has no true explanation… though everyone believes in it no matter what. So, if you are smart, you will try to make sense of gravity. Easy right! Just explain it. Just like mainstream scientist say it is due to lava in the core of this earth. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm…. So did the scientist do a lab model with lava and came up with this reasoning? That is what they say so I guess I should believe them. But what if that does not make sense! What then? Do you question their “intelligence” (remember intelligence is gained) or do you swallow their assumptions? More over, and this is the truth, if scientist knew exactly how gravity works, they would be able to reverse engineer and make an anti-gravity aircraft (which they haven done shit). I mean, if I want to hack anything to make it work my way, I first need to know how it works. If I want to defy the laws of gravity I should be able to since scientist already know where gravity comes from. Or do they?… I mean if they really knew, they would be able to reproduce gravity or make something anti-gravity… which it has not been done yet, pilots would be flying aircraft's flying at the speed of light and making 90 degree tunrs in a heart beat. which is not true. Hence, we don’t really understand gravity at all. But lets just pretend we do .

Also, our galaxy seems to be spinning in one direction due to gravity… so if “scientist” are right, this means that there is hot lava in the center of our galaxy that is pulling everything together… lol…. Some scientists are full of shit. But hey! Who are we to go against their claims? C’mon now, us dumb ass religious people don't know shit. even with a brain, common people are stupid? You gotta be shitting me!
Every single non-religious believer will believe what is shoved down their throats though. Some non believes are that way due to spite because the creator did not answer to their begging… did now fix their "problems." while others just are bullies. Which one are you? Does not matter! The truth to your true self shows like an open wound to me. It says that you are close minded and that you get your “fuel to your life” by going against people. = close minded.

I have met many people who lived by such lies but latter I have seen them change their lie of a life. There is more to life than just being close minded.

Religious people, please stay away from such close minded people. They are bullies and will go against you even if you speak reason. I cannot stress that enough. And even the moderator may/will delete this post because the moderator/s only cares about a pay check (traffic) just like everyone else though. Though you either stand up for money or truth.

[mind]

hey people! scientist have everything figured out. stay calm and burn the bibles for ever. it will do you good.

[Angry Citizen]

You.. really didn't want to make this topic. That is, unless you are fully expecting the dogpile that is about to occur, starting with me (or whoever finishes before me).

I have not learned jack from here. I am religious and the only thing I have “learned” (or have been reminded off) here is how a lot of people live their life by putting others down. Hell, (yes I said hell) this reminds me when I use to put people down myself. I understand the rules of social animal behavior. Intimidate the other alpha male so you can enhance your pride and gain his females. And not just gain only his females but also gain from his prosperity too. Things like his dignity, pride, money… you name it. I know this 100% because I use to do that myself when I was younger. The evidence is there if you where to speak to guys who would look up to me and females who would drool over me. but i gained the knowledge if knowing that there is a balance in there somewhere where there is a phase… the alpha male is alpha for a period of time and the guy/female under the alpha male is there for a short time too. The alpha soon learns that being an alpha is a game of being able to do things to be alpha… like intimidate, be blunt…etc.

Both have their benefits where the alpha matures and the one under the alpha matures too. Hence, continuing the laws of socializing. The problem arises when one gets stuck in one place. Where the alpha keeps on being an alpha till old age or an alpha follower keeps on being a follower till old age. That is when things go to hell. And that is where I am getting at. The fucked up and confused thing about all that is that we are suppose to learn our path unconsciously. People require degrees to be able to understand that let alone the common people. lets not forget that we are being controlled by the government too. lol, it is better to live in a fantasy world. the difference is that it is easy to change but it is not when one cannot see the light. hmmm... at any rate...

I am sorry you feel this way, but perhaps it is you with the closed mind. The vast majority of atheists and agnostics on this board were once Christians, myself included. We became atheist or agnostic by careful logical deduction. How can we be closed minded if we have at least one enormous example in our lives of being quite open minded? It annoys me that you think we are closed minded when we are the ones who have had to escape the most vile and powerful indoctrination force ever seen. We were raised from birth to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Many of us have read the Bible cover to cover numerous times. Some of us were forced to attend churches, watch Christian-themed films, read Christian-themed literature, and were constantly reminded that every single one of our friends, family members, neighbors, coworkers, bosses, classmates, teachers, leaders, and authority figures in general (or at least the vast majority) believed that, if we turned from the path of God, we would be destined for a) an eternity of nonexistence, or b) an eternity of suffering, depending on the particular sadism of the individual. And yet, we threw off these shackles in favor of intellectual freedom. And you have the audacity to call us closed minded?

The true reality is that there may be a god because, point blank, gravity has no true explanation… though everyone believes in it no matter what. So, if you are smart, you will try to make sense of gravity. Easy right! Just explain it.

Those of us with an inclination for science are constantly seeking to push the boundaries of our knowledge. My field is not gravitational physics. Since I'm an aerospace engineering student, I tend to spit in the face of gravity. I'd love for gravity to have a proper explanation. Sadly, human knowledge has limitations that may or may not be rectified with time. There's nothing we can do except ignore superstition and continue studying reality.

Just like mainstream scientist say it is due to lava in the core of this earth.

You just confused magnetism with gravitation.

That is what they say so I guess I should believe them. But what if that does not make sense! What then?

If something doesn't make sense, I find out how the theory was made, how it may have been derived, and perhaps try to understand the mathematics behind it. I don't accept science at face-value. I know it's been wrong in the past, and it will be in the future. But until contrary evidence emerges, I have to trust that the model is accurate. However, if something at a cursory glance sounds implausible, it doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible. And as a corollary to this statement, let me add: if some theory disobeys all models ever created to explain nature, then yes, it's almost certainly impossible. I would no more accept creationism, the Ark story, or Jesus' miracles than I would accept a scientific theory that attempted to disprove the law of conservation of energy.

More over, and this is the truth, if scientist knew exactly how gravity works, they would be able to reverse engineer and make an anti-gravity aircraft (which they haven done shit).

Sometimes nature doesn't respond very well to science fiction. As far as we know, gravity can't have a positive value (I.E. repulsive force). That's what allows it to form objects like black holes and neutron stars. No, we don't understand gravity entirely. But I defy you to explain God to me entirely.

Some non believes are that way due to spite because the creator did not answer to their begging… did now fix their "problems." while others just are bullies. Which one are you?

Neither. Who's the bully here? You just condemned a sizable portion of the populace -- the most intelligent portion, mind you -- as ignorant, while you show your complete ignorance of even basic gravitational theory. Yet we're the bully? I also find your appeal to 'begging' to be vacuous. In the paragraph above this one, you were complaining that science hadn't invented a (possibly impossible) device for antigravity. Reality nor God responds to our complaints. That's something we've learned to deal with. Perhaps you haven't.

[Jack]

I'd be embarrassed if I had posted the drivel in the OP as a defense of my supposedly superior position as a believer.

[mind]

You.. really didn't want to make this topic. That is, unless you are fully expecting the dogpile that is about to occur, starting with me (or whoever finishes before me).

dog pile shit can easily be scooped with a shovel.

I am sorry you feel this way, but perhaps it is you with the closed mind. The vast majority of atheists and agnostics on this board were once Christians, myself included. We became atheist or agnostic by careful logical deduction. How can we be closed minded if we have at least one enormous example in our lives of being quite open minded? It annoys me that you think we are closed minded when we are the ones who have had to escape the most vile and powerful indoctrination force ever seen. We were raised from birth to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Many of us have read the Bible cover to cover numerous times. Some of us were forced to attend churches, watch Christian-themed films, read Christian-themed literature, and were constantly reminded that every single one of our friends, family members, neighbors, coworkers, bosses, classmates, teachers, leaders, and authority figures in general (or at least the vast majority) believed that, if we turned from the path of God, we would be destined for a) an eternity of nonexistence, or b) an eternity of suffering, depending on the particular sadism of the individual. And yet, we threw off these shackles in favor of intellectual freedom. And you have the audacity to call us closed minded?

i can assure you with logic or proof that i am not close minded. heck, i love science... just imagine that. a dumb ass believer loving science? no way huh! science it is easy dude. i just open my eyes and explain what i can see. what is hard about that? but can you understand that just by eyesight alone, one cannot know true reality? or, for that matter, one cannot come to (a modern human's) conclusion by just that perception alone. let me see you eat pizza with out smelling it or hearing you say i like to drink beer with out feeling it's effect. things are more complicated than what you believe.


so don't feel sorry for how i feel. as a matter of fact, i feel sorry for you. which is nothing if you decide to stay that way. like alice in wonder land was happy in her land.

now, i ask myself where you converted due to what makes you happy or due to spite... there is a huge difference there. if you are happy believing in what yo believe, hey! more power to you. please... teach others to be in the state that you are. but if you are trying to teach people the truth... please show them the facts first.

i understand that it is hard to believe in god by someone telling you why you should. but there are people who are more knowledgeable than the teacher, still, that does not prove that there is no god. it only shows that the teacher is a poor excuse of a teacher. every teacher has their followers though... it depends on the good or evil though.

though i do admire your alpha tendencies. i would not follow anyone teaching me religious crap too. in this way, you are not wrong regarding your believes... just as long as you don't abuse other people verbally to make you feel good.

i was once a catholic but then converted to christian.... not because someone told me to but because that's where i felt more conformable with... and still am.

the fuken irony is that in all US currency, it says in god we trust. yet, most of them don't believe in god.... like yourself. which is fine... but you have to understand that the government is a mafia.... can you? lol

so just like you don't believe everything a scientists says.. do you... i'm sure you don't... don't believe everything about what religious people say... easy!

i don't really understand the complexity.

Those of us with an inclination for science are constantly seeking to push the boundaries of our knowledge. My field is not gravitational physics. Since I'm an aerospace engineering student, I tend to spit in the face of gravity. I'd love for gravity to have a proper explanation. Sadly, human knowledge has limitations that may or may not be rectified with time. There's nothing we can do except ignore superstition and continue studying reality.

hmmm.... i don't grasp why you go agaiust scientist here who believe to know where gravity comes from. though i of appreciate your knowledge of engineering.

yet, i ask myself... does a close minded person reaches the next level of knowledge first regarding the previous knowledge than does an open minded? intelligence is at play here.

You just confused magnetism with gravitation.

what is there to confuse? can you explain the difference? from what i know, magnetism attracts metals like steel while it does not do crap to aluminum metals... so can you explain gravity to me?

[el ايمان]

One thing I have learned here is how incredibly humble you are.

[Angry Citizen]

i can assure you with logic or proof that i am not close minded. heck, i love science... just imagine that. a dumb ass believer loving science? no way huh! science it is easy dude. i just open my eyes and explain what i can see. what is hard about that? but can you understand that just by eyesight alone, one cannot know true reality? or, for that matter, one cannot come to (a modern human's) conclusion by just that perception alone. let me see you eat pizza with out smelling it or hearing you say i like to drink beer with out feeling it's effect. things are more complicated than what you believe.

I assure you, the problems I grapple with on a daily basis far exceed pizza eating or beer drinking. Reality is complicated, I agree. But what does this have to do with God, atheism, or closed mindedness?

now, i ask myself where you converted due to what makes you happy or due to spite... there is a huge difference there. if you are happy believing in what yo believe, hey! more power to you. please... teach others to be in the state that you are. but if you are trying to teach people the truth... please show them the facts first.

Okay. The facts are, God is the providence of religion. Religion is based on holy texts, by and large. These holy texts have known inaccuracies, both historical and scientific (and there is reason to suspect mathematical as well). This casts aspersions on the idea of God as an extant creature. It is theists who must make arguments for their God. It is not the atheists' job to disprove the mere idea; only the evidence offered.

i was once a catholic but then converted to christian.... not because someone told me to but because that's where i felt more conformable with... and still am.

And I 'converted' to atheism not because anyone told me to or because I felt better (though I do indeed feel much better), but because it is simply the foundational position in all of logic. Whenever a claim is made that has no evidence, all people revert to a state of atheism -- except people who have been conned by the supposed virtue of 'belief' and 'faith'.

the fuken irony is that in all US currency, it says in god we trust. yet, most of them don't believe in god.... like yourself.

Firstly, most people in America believe in God (don't worry, I'm doing my best to end this). Secondly, that was added, what, during the 50s at the height of the Cold War so as to highlight a key difference between saintly capitalism and godless communism? Thirdly, who cares what the money says? Fourthly, what does the government have to do with religion, besides being explicitly secular (supposedly)?

i don't grasp why you go agaiust scientist here who believe to know where gravity comes from.

No scientist knows where gravity comes from. Depends on the theory you ascribe to. I find the notion of a graviton patently ridiculous. I like Einstein's geometric interpretation, but of course, I have no way of knowing what really goes on to cause gravity. In fact, we don't even know where mass comes from yet!

what is there to confuse? can you explain the difference?

At millions of degrees Kelvin, theoretically there is no difference. But we live in a world in the low-hundreds of degrees Kelvin, and therefore there's a difference of about 21 orders of magnitude IIRC. That's a 1 with 21 zeroes.

Edit: Turns out I was actually discussing the square root of the difference between the two. It's actually 42 orders of magnitude greater. That's a 1 with 42 zeroes.

from what i know, magnetism attracts metals like steel while it does not do crap to aluminum metals

Elecromagnetism holds your body together, keeps you from falling through the Earth, keeps the Earth from collapsing in on itself, causes light, causes all chemical reactions, and hell, it'll even lift your car off the ground if you run a strong enough current through a big enough solenoid.

so can you explain gravity to me?

Nope. Wish I could, but neither atheism nor science claims absolute knowledge. That is the field of the religious -- who, of course, fall over themselves disagreeing.

[el ايمان]

Isn't gravity just a measure of mass?

[Angry Citizen]

No. Gravity is a measure of the force exerted between two (or more) masses. It's measured in newtons (or pounds -- which is actually pretty interesting; most people don't know that pounds are actually a unit of force, so you can't actually 'lose' any pounds... you may lose mass, however).

[el ايمان]

But the force is dependent on each object's mass, right?

[Angry Citizen]

Yes, by the relation F = m1m2/r^2, where F is the force due to gravity, m1 is the mass of the first object, m2 is the mass of the second object, and r is the radial distance between the two objects. Of course, this is only valid for a very significant number of problems; not necessarily all.

[mind]

jack, there is nothing to be embarrassed about.... regarding anything. i understand you are a moderator and i hope you do now throttle my posts here. i believe i have the right of free speech. i would appreciate if you follow that... still. i am open minded to anything new i can learn. if you can bring something new to the table, that is awesome. now, if you decide to throttle my posts here, that is fine also. though one who is knowledgeable cannot stop to wonder why i am lagging here and not somewhere else. still, it may not be you, but please give me a challenge and explain gravity to me.... since you believe you understand it. and, also, explain, why you understand something and not other things... thanks. :)