Pets/Companion animals

[Critter]

Quote by: Isherwood I have mixed feelings. I support adopting animals from shelters, and they're all spayed/neutered before being available. I favor that practice to discourage those who might adopt just to start a puppy mill. But when you raise the animal and he/she is always under your control and you're not adding to the unwanted pet population, then the need to spay/neuter is lessened. I have no objection to spaying or neutering in general. There are some humans who could profit from such an operation.

Chloe is spayed; I made the decision to have the procedure done because she tries to slip out the door when I come in, go out, or open the door to sign the UPS guy's clipboard. Also, being with two other female cats, she was a bit too aggressive, so rather than find a new home for her, I chose to have her spayed.

The other two, however, aren't spayed, and I hesitate to do so, considering they're all indoor cats. I'm not fond of surgically altering an animal for my own convenience (I'm vehemently against de-clawing). I can deal with the cat-in-heat thing once every few months, and I realize that spaying helps prevent certain types of cancers and such, but Lucky in particular I can't bear to part with overnight, and she's so sensitive I just don't want to put her through that, because I know she'll be scared to death and she won't understand what's going on. Chloe on the other hand, adjusts very well, and I knew she'd handle it okay.

[Jack]

'm vehemently against de-clawing

Me too, and docking dog's tails. There are better ways to deal with clawing, and tail docking is just unnecessary.
If you had a male cat indoors, the spraying can be too much to bear. In cases where the human has to choose between neutering and giving up the animal, I'd support neutering.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Isherwood Me too, and docking dog's tails. There are better ways to deal with clawing, and tail docking is just unnecessary.

I remember one day at the park I was astonished to see a gal with two Dobies, both with full, floppy ears, and long whippy tails. I was so tickled that I went up to her, asked her if that was her choice and when she explained that is was, gave her an 'attagirl'.

Just to be fair, I was talking to a Vizsla owner another day... with their half docked tails, I wasn't completely sure if it was actually docked or just sorta short. They said, yes, it was docked and that was because the breed's long, thin whip of a tail had a tendancy to break if wagged into something hard enough.

Quote by: Isherwood I always felt goldens were just big doofuses, friendly to a fault and very easy going. Your account surprises me a bit. I didn't know goldens had that in them.

Yeah, Mr. Knucklehead got some odd noodles in his genetic soup.



Like you said, Goldens are usually friendly to a fault, especially with people. All I need to do is look at a Golden, whether I know them or not, and they'll generally come over with a full body wag to say hello.

Not Britain... he's daddy's boy and almost completely indifferent to other people. Park regulars will often call Mali over for a friendly greeting. Mr. Beach Stud won't even give them a glance. :rolleyes:

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[underbear1]

Elaine Boosler had a funny comedy bit about getting a boxer, which they had the tail docked, the ears clipped, and nuetered it, she says, the dog looked at her as if to say,"if you wanted a smaller dog, you should have bought a smaller dog."

[Jack]

thin whip of a tail had a tendancy to break if wagged into something hard enough.

I don't know. I guess I can accept that as a nearly logical reason. I have had a dog with a broken tail from that. But her's was docked post-trauma, not a preemptive thing.
My Keeshond lost a leg in an accident when he was about 4 years old. I had to have it removed to save his life. He got along fine without it, as I knew from reading and talking to his vet he would. I don't consider limb loss in any animal as anything more than a challenge to adapt to.

[lsbskins1]

Oooo!

I have two dogs, both rescue dogs. Mutts. Max and Zeus. I would run into traffic for them. They stay in my room every night, have a fenced yard in which to frolic and sleep in the bed if and when they wish. They are trained not to "go" in the house, know what sit means, and recognize me as Alpha. They are both good with kids and accept any other dog I introduce to them. They both bark when strangers are around, but I doubt either would bite any human, though Max might lick you to death if you let him. How people live without a dog or two in their lives is beyond me.

[Critter]

Quote by: Isherwood Me too, and docking dog's tails. There are better ways to deal with clawing, and tail docking is just unnecessary. If you had a male cat indoors, the spraying can be too much to bear. In cases where the human has to choose between neutering and giving up the animal, I'd support neutering.

If I had a male cat, I would definitely have to have him neutered, both because of the spraying and the obvious other reason.

As far as I'm concerned, the cats come first. I don't have expensive furniture; if they wanna claw the ratty old La-Z-Boy, I don't care. I have no need for top-of-the-line furnishings. That's just the sacrifice you make when you share your home with animals, IMO.

[bishop]

hey, for all of you with cats, an excellent toy to get them is a laser pointer.. my male loves the thing and chases it all over the place.. fun to see the little bugger panting when he's all done.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: bishop hey, for all of you with cats, an excellent toy to get them is a laser pointer..

:) Works for some dogs too... I remember a gal at the park had a laser pointer. It was hilarious. She'd stand there chatting with her friends, absently pointing the laser here and there, and her pit mix would be going absolutely nuts tearing around after the light beam on the ground. Twenty minutes later, she's caught up on all the gossip, her mutt is panting in exhausted bliss and all was right with the world.

Until one day the battery ran out. Poor little Peanut was at a complete loss, staring and pestering mom to make the red bug come out and play.


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[Scribbler1]

Quote by: bishop hey, for all of you with cats, an excellent toy to get them is a laser pointer.. my male loves the thing and chases it all over the place.. fun to see the little bugger panting when he's all done.

There is another toy Barney goes nuts over. He was a feral cat and was apparently thrown out of the litter WAY too soon (He thinks he's a squirrel) and he would stalk things like leaves in the breeze and birds (never killed them, though) and this seems to imitate that pretty well. It is simply a rod with a string and a little clump of feathers at the end of the string. When you flick the rod and the feathers start flying through the air Barney will literally go airborne trying to catch it. The problem is he is now hopelessly addicted to it. When we come home he goes to my office door and yells at us. It's like, "I know it's in there so what are you waiting for?"

The downside is the feather gadget doesn't last long after he gets a hold of it, so I roll my own.

[bishop]

Quote by: sonart Twenty minutes later, she's caught up on all the gossip, her mutt is panting in exhausted bliss and all was right with the world.

heh, it's always a good time seeing any animal (especially dogs) in that state.. i like when my parents' dog (a rot/german shephard, collie mix) recovers from her workout and then spends the next 10 minutes at the watering hole.. it's all national geographic yo. gotta be funny seeing a big dog going nuts over it though.. i'm always trying to guide the beam so that our little guy goes flying right onto my girlfriend, but haven't been successful - yet.

Quote by: scribbler The downside is the feather gadget doesn't last long after he gets a hold of it, so I roll my own.

i've seen them in the stores, but never decided to get one. we have a bunch of toys for them, the spoiled little brats that they are.. random balls (that they never use), catnip toys, twisty ties, a little cat condo, verticle and horizontal scratch pads, a water fountain, the wand with the thing at the end, etc... made some crab salad for lunch today and they got the juices - they definitely like tuna juice much better. sometime this summer, i need to buy some wood and twine and bring them to jaz's mother's place - and make my own cat condo (or at least a scratch post).. my female cat has a habit of completely destroying all her scratch toys cuz she uses them so vigorously.. the last scratch post i had, she managed to tear the post off the base. heh, we definitely gave her the nickname "beast" for a reason. she and i had a nice session last night with the brush - now she's all proud and shiny.

[Jack]

I don't want to alarm anyone, as I too give my cats tuna juice, but check out this (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450509) page for information on the effects of tuna fish canned for humans on cats that get too much.

[bishop]

yeah... the problem for humans is mercury poisoning from what i've heard.

they definitely don't get tuna all that often though.. maybe once a month tops (usually once every other month).. i just pour the juices on top of their science diet food, so they're still getting all the nutrients they need - just with some added flavor. the link didn't seem to say how much tuna is too much though (although i just gave it a quick skim).

ever get the canned wet food from trader joe's? my guys love that stuff. nice to open the can and be able to recognize the food in it, rather than the ultra processed crap that manufacturers like friskies makes.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: bishop i've seen them in the stores, but never decided to get one. we have a bunch of toys for them, the spoiled little brats that they are.. random balls (that they never use), catnip toys, twisty ties, a little cat condo, verticle and horizontal scratch pads, a water fountain, the wand with the thing at the end, etc...

Same here, and he ignores almost ALL of the crap I keep stepping on. But this thing surprised the hell out of me when my Wife bought it. The cat can't get enough of it. And he also loves this cheap ring as well. It's thin plastic and has a ball (about the size of a ping pong ball) in a track open at the top (when he smacks the ball it travels around the ring) and a scratching area in the middle made from corrugated cardboard. The thing cost me $9 and the refills for the scratching thing are about $5 for 2. You can have all the rest of that cat stuff. All he really uses are those two things.

[bishop]

my guys actually use all the stuff i bought them.. they definitely have their favorites though..

[JessiR85]

I love animals; that is the reason why I think inbreeding white tigers is wrong.

BEAUTY CONDEMNED THEM TO SUFFER
The white tiger is admired by people because of its beautiful, ritzy, white coat with dark brown stripes and their penetrating pale ice blue eyes. These beautiful features are given when a tiger carrying the recessive allele (gene) necessary for the white color mates with another tiger carrying the same allele. In nature, this event is sporadic; it occurs in about one out of 10,000 births. Consequently, humans have found inbreeding father to daughter, brother to sister, mother to son, and so on as the only way to preserve the existence of the white tiger. I believe inbreeding white tigers is a cruel act no matter what the final purpose is.
Owners of zoos, circuses, and other profit organizations believe that inbreeding white tigers is not wrong. Their reason for doing it is because they say the white tiger is a popular animal that increases the visitors’ attendance. As a result, their profit is greater. I do not think all the money that they make will be able to make up for all the suffering the white tiger goes through. In addition, some people say that they agree with inbreeding the white tiger because it is the only way to conserve them. However, they are not conscious of the consequences that this brings or they simply do not care about the suffering or the quality of life these animals will have. If they truly cared to conserve the species, they would think of the circumstances and situations they are submitting the tigers to.
The first generation of white tigers that was first introduced into the U.S. was from Indian origin. In a short period of time, this Bengal tiger bloodline died leaving no traces of a pure Indian origin Bengal white tiger in the U.S. The subsequent generation, which is the one we see today, proceeded from a pure Siberian male and Bengal female cross that took place at a small zoo in South Dakota. Therefore, the white tigers that we see today are not from a pure Bengal cross; instead they are just a cross of Bengal and Siberian tigers. Throughout the years, the people that say that they are inbreeding the tigers to preserve the “specie” made people believe that the white tiger was a separate subspecies in danger of extinction. In fact, the white tiger is a generic mutation of the Bengal subspecies. To make it even worst, as said before, the tigers in the U.S. are not even from a pure Bengal bloodline. This fraud was created just to have a reason to justify this cruel act. Inbreeding white tigers is not right because there is no veracity in the individuals’ reasons. They want to hide the fact that what they are really creating is a mutation and a cross of different subspecies.
White tigers are used as an attraction and an object to increase business in zoos, circuses, and all profit organizations. These business people know that the white tiger is a popular animal, therefore, they take advantage of this situation. They approve inbreeding and sometimes practice it as well because this will bring monetary gains; they focus in being opulent. This is a cruel, invalid and immoral reason to justify the inbreeding of white tigers. They make this situation worse when they force them to live behind bars for the rest of their lives.
When a white tiger is bred to an orange colored tiger carrying the white tiger gene, only 1 out of 4 tiger cubs are born white. The other three that remain in the litter are not good enough for the owners because they are not white. Therefore, the owners will get rid of those defenseless tiger cubs because it does not fit their criteria and people are not satisfied when they see an orange colored tiger. Some of those tigers will end up in a non-profit organization dedicated to rescue animals, but others will be sentenced to death. This brings two thoughts to my mind. First, I think is sad how humans are willing to sacrifice the lives of these poor animals in order to fulfill their ambition and desire to see the white tiger in entertainment display. In addition, my other thought is that these individuals are indirectly showing and introducing racism to society by rejecting the normal colored tiger cubs because they are not white.
Inbreeding white tigers is an act that has increased over the past years. Some people buy tigers because they think that tigers will be great pets. This belief changes once the tiger starts growing and the problems come along. Therefore, these tigers are left in organizations dedicated to the rescue of animals but sadly most of these places are full. As a result, people have to keep the tigers caged in their backyards where they will die from malnutrition or the insalubrious conditions they have to live under. Also, zoos, circuses, and other private owners dedicated to inbreed the white tigers will get rid of tigers that do not look good enough for them. These people will also try to take them to non-profit organizations but the answer will be the same: “Sorry, we are full.” People keep inbreeding white tigers but almost nobody seems to care about building places where these tigers will be able to live a decent life. The problem is that there is not enough places for these animals to live and there is too many people inbreeding them and rejecting them.
The most shocking consequence that involves the inbreeding of the white tiger is the high death rate and the unhealthy life that most of them are condemned to. Studies show that about 80% of white tiger cubs born will die from birth defects caused by the attempt to create the white coat in the tiger. The remaining 20% will die in their early ages. The main cause is because inbreeding will create birth defects such as immune deficiencies, scoliosis of the spine, cleft palates, mental impairments, and crossed eyes. To fulfill people’s desires or ambitions, most of the white tigers will not even live in this world for one minute. The ones with birth defects will die soon as complications in their health will start to develop or they might be killed because they are deformed. People are willing to sacrifice the tiger’s life or sentence them to a life full of suffering just to fill their pockets with dirty money.
Humans are said to be different than any other living creature because we feel and because we think before we act. In this case, I do not think the individuals that inbreed the white tiger should be categorized as humans because they have no feelings and definitely they are not thinking about the consequences. They are acting with cruelty that makes them put money and science over humane feelings, ethics, and morals. I believe inbreeding the white tiger is wrong in all senses. I prefer not to be selfish and allow the white tiger to vanish slowly leaving in our memories an example of nature’s beauty and the human effort to give them a higher quality of life. I certainly do not want to have cruel and sad images as the example of how far human cruelty can go.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: bishop my guys actually use all the stuff i bought them.. they definitely have their favorites though.

We've had a rather fascinating toy phenomena at our local dog park. For years and years I've carried a ratty old cardboard box full of beatup tennis balls in the back of my car, for playing fetch at the park. Even bought a nifty chuckit to fling 'em with. Nifty invention.



Anyway, about a year ago a dogwash/pet store up the street from the park started selling what we used to call 'Squeeky Head' soft latex squeeky balls, a bit smaller than a tennis ball.



What we call them now is 'Doggy Crack'. From the moment we first spotted them at the park, my two simply ignored the tennis balls and ran off to steal the crack balls from whatever dog was chasing one. Within a week the embarrassment of constantly returning stolen squeeky balls forced me to buy some for my dogs, whereupon we immediately became the target for every crack ball stealing dog in the park. One huge brute, a rot-something mix named Handsome, would hear the squeek from halfway across the park and come barreling over to steal what he could. His poor parents... Handsome loved them so much that rather than give them up, he'd swallow them whole.

At 13, Britain can't keep up with Mali in fetching, so he's content to just walk around or lie there, squeeking away, and he's very possessive, quick to warn off any ner'do'well who gets too curious. Occassionally, if another dog seems interested, he'll go over to them and, giving the ball several resounding squeeks, shove it right in their face... just to, y'know, confirm that he has the ball and they don't.

Mali, on the other hand, rockets after each throw and brings the ball back... sort of. Dropping it anywhere within a ten foot radius is considered a good return, but it means that I have to be hyper-alert to other crack ball addicts waiting to rush in and steal the thing.

Worse is when either of them becomes distracted... maybe running off to the nearby brush at the sound of a squirrel or whatever. Both of them have learned a new command... "Find it!" To my amazement, both of them seem to recall where they had the ball, and will tear off in a hunting pattern towards where they last had the ball, and more often these days than not, will return with the prize.

And at $2.50 a pop, thank gawd. I tell folks my dogs have $15 a week crack ball habit. :)

Oddest of all, this particular store seems to be the only place in town you can get these toys. When I occassionally go to other parks or the local dog beach and mention 'Crack Balls', folks tend to look at me as if I've lost my mind.

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[shawmutt]

I'm curious as to how many of us have pets, what pets we have and what they mean to our lives.

I have never been without some sort of animal companion. Currently I have two fish tanks, a 30 gallon with assorted small fish, and a 10 gallon with my killer cichlid Princess (this is my actual fish, I took the pic for an aquarium website and added the caption). I lost interest in the 30 gallon; it’s a boring community tank. I still maintain it and take good care of the fish, but I haven’t bought a new fish for a while and I’m just letting the current inhabitants live out their lives. I’m really fond of princess however, and she has a life span of 10-12 years. I brought her home as a baby about four years ago.

We also have our two cats Max and Sophie, Max is the orange tabby, Sophie the silver. Sophie’s the older cat and a grump, and hangs out with us when it’s convenient for her. Max is a clown and loves attention. He’s also a ham, as shown in these pictures (click) (click). All the pictures of max were from nearly a year ago, he has grown quite a bit and is almost as big as Sophie now. My wife and I played World of Warcraft for a short time, and the first thing we did was get matching cats .

Both are fixed and declawed (front paws only). I was against declawing until I spent time with declawed cats and realized they don't know the difference. The first couple days we had Sophie she raked her claws down the front of my $500 speaker, I decided declawing was the way to go. They are indoor cats, but we have them leashed trained and occasionally take them out for a breath of fresh air.

This year I hope to get a dog, but with my wife being pregnant and all it might have to wait until next year. I want something big like a lab.

For theists, does your dominion over animals extend to your pets?

Yes, although my cats think otherwise

Are they supposed to behave according to your wishes?

It depends—I certainly don’t expect fish to do what I tell them, I do expect cats to listen when I tell them to get off the counter and do expect them to use the litter box but not much else, dogs I expect to do whatever I can train them to do.

Will they share eternity with you? Do pets have souls?

No, and yes. While I do believe in a “higher power” and therefore am a theist, I don’t believe our “souls” are fleshless carbon copies. I don’t believe we are the same beings after death as we were in life, so while it might be desirable to think that I’ll have a bunch of favorite pets waiting for me when I die, I don’t believe that I will.

Which animals make the best pets? Are you a dog or cat person...a snake person, a ferret fancier?

Dogs, hands down. One or two have been part of the family during my whole childhood. I haven’t had one since I was 18, since I moved out and started living in apartments. Well, that’s not completely true, I spent a couple years with a roommate that had a rottweiler named Jake—I loved that dog and treated him as my own. I hope to own a dog this year.

Living is less joyful for me without them.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Jack]

Thanks, shawmutt, for bumping this thread. I've been meaning to update it for several days, then forget once I get here.

Two weeks ago tomorrow I adopted an 11 year old Corgi from the humane society. My last dog died of old age last October, and I found 5 months was as long as I could go without a canine companion.

Oliver, my new best bud:

[Eclipse]

Max is a clown and loves attention. He’s also a ham, as shown in these pictures (click) (click).

Lol. The places cats get themselves

We used to have 3 dogs and 4 cats and several more in the past on the family's acreage but since I've moved away to the city I haven't been able to get one.

Although I'd consider myself more a dog person, some cats are great companions. Last one's to come into the family we got a deaf blue heeler who was absolutely awesome and really smart and a cute kitten who always cuddled up near me on the couch and drooled excessively for a kitten while enjoying a good pet.

Humanists, do pets have a right to exist by their own rules? Do you allow your pets to behave naturally, or do you train them?

I don't train my pets to be professional by any means. Just a usual good natured friendship where they adapt to, or pick up, some of the simpler signs of obedience like "Hey buddy, come 'ere." etc. where it is more a recognition of emotion and possible delicious treats. :) If it comes into the house, there are some general rules as with people going into other's homes, like not relieving yourself.

Is the concept of "pet" anathema to your beliefs?

I would not call it such entirely. A stray dog sticks around if you treat it well and eventually falls into the family willingly. I would call it better then the pound if it's a good home. Maybe the terminology is a bit stray. Perhaps I would call it a friend instead of a "pet" where ownership and superiority is implied.

I may pick up some issues here and there with some things. Like the shitzu my mother got one day who was tied up in a backyard with a family who didn't care for it. Kept it on a small leash in a fenced area, didn't clean up the small yard, didn't pay any attention to it besides feeding it. A stinky place really and with no natural water around, they didn't bathe the dog. It had a few health issues at first like infected gums and stuff. I'm glad they decided to give it away.

Two weeks ago tomorrow I adopted an 11 year old Corgi from the humane society. My last dog died of old age last October, and I found 5 months was as long as I could go without a canine companion.

Sorry to hear. Always poor to lose a good friend. Wish you and Oliver the best.