Who would Jesus torture?

[Nono]

This question is PatrickHenry's signature at the moment. I think it's a damned good question.

This thread may end up down in Miscellaneous, though I hope not.
Nor does it belong in Phil.&Rel. -- It's an eminently political topic at a time when the Religious Right has all but seized political power in the United States.

So you Bible-banging bushbots, you have the floor. Tell us who Jesus would torture? Hugo Chávez? Michael Moore?

[tusaki]

The answer is simple: no one. The torture (also known as hell) is to be removed from the love of Jezus.

At least this is how I understand Christianity.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Yawn.


Torture, the buzz word of the media. "OMG Torture!!!!"


Lives of innocent Americans and our allies in one hand, and the rights of a terrorist that would behead your father, rape your mother and shoot your brother in the other....

And you people worry about the rights of murderers. Get a clue people, all you are saying is "Come kill us Mr. Terrorist, were to weak to survive."

[Nono]

Quote by: Vicchio Yawn.

Stop trying to slither out of the question, V.
Find the balls to answer it.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I did answer the question Nono. Your question is ignorant. Jesus wouldn't Torture anyone, he would just use his Devine powers to convert the little bugger into telling him whatever he needed to know. Actually, he's Jesus, he wouldn't HAVE to torture anyone, he's God, he KNOWS what the Terrorist needs to know. So your question, is moot. As is your premise.

Personnaly, I would take a ball peen hammer to a terrorist knee caps in a heartbeat if I felt that was the ONLY way I could get critical information that would SAVE LIVES.

You on the other hand, would let people die, so as to protect the "rights" of said terrorist.

I believe in Life.

[Pooeypants]

Mr Vicc, as far as I can see, Nono has made no such statements. Please stop with the strawman accusations because it is most tiring.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio I did answer the question Nono. Your question is ignorant. Jesus wouldn't Torture anyone, he would just use his Devine powers to convert the little bugger into telling him whatever he needed to know. Actually, he's Jesus, he wouldn't HAVE to torture anyone, he's God, he KNOWS what the Terrorist needs to know. So your question, is moot. As is your premise. Personnaly, I would take a ball peen hammer to a terrorist knee caps in a heartbeat if I felt that was the ONLY way I could get critical information that would SAVE LIVES. You on the other hand, would let people die, so as to protect the "rights" of said terrorist. I believe in Life.

And here we have the perfect example of a weasley slip away from the intended thrust of the question. Maybe I can add one word to the question and take the weasle path away. "Who would Jesus condone torturing?" As Jesus lived to 1)Atone for our sins(speaking from the standpoint of belief) and 2) guide us to the correct path by example(speaking from a position I can and do accept), what do you believe Jesus would want and expect you to do?

And let me say this as well. People who argue against torture do NOT do so because they are heartless and do not care if "people die". They feel the way that they do because they believe that, in the end, more people die when you choose the way of torture. They believe (along with most military professionals) that torture rarely, if ever, gets you useful information, and simply leads to an ever escalating level of brutality that, in the end, costs many more lives than it can ever save. We believe that your position is short sighted and that you advocate for a course of action that gives you nothing more than a false sense of security. If we are right, and your methods save a thousand US Citizens lives today(though this is not likely), but cost ten thousand US Citizens lives in the years ahead(which is very likely), what has torture really done for us?

[Nono]

Quote by: Mr.V I did answer the question Nono. Your question is ignorant. Jesus wouldn't Torture anyone, he would just use his Devine powers to convert the little bugger into telling him whatever he needed to know.

This one goes straight to the most-idiotic-statements thread.
Likewise, in my pathetic ignorance, I imagined that Jesus actually went around preaching, for example lobbying people to become His disciples.
But thanks to your theological insight, I now realize that He used His "devine" powers to convert them (hell, why bother, right?), that His stay in the desert was actually just a little vacation (I mean, what was there to agonize over, him being God and all, right?), etc. etc.
Don't make for much of a Gospel now do it?

[Osborn F Enready]

I say Jesus would torture himself, isn't that how the story goes? He allows others to torture him instead of them? Isn't this supposed to speak of his humility and selflessness? Funny that a nation who supposedly embodies that idea, is running all over fighting wars without constitutional backing, which is what we claim as our rule of law, and emodies according to Christians "sacred" rights that we habitually infringe.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Hey pooey, exactly WHY is this thread in this section hmm?

It's a religious attack thread, with insults. Yet instead of doing the job of a MODERATOR, you go after me.

Do your job, this thread asks:

"So you Bible-thumping bushbots..."
So doesn't that violate the forum rules? Or are those arbitarary, on the whim of Pooey if he likes the angle fo the OP?

[Chris]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Yawn. Torture, the buzz word of the media. "OMG Torture!!!!" Lives of innocent Americans and our allies in one hand, and the rights of a terrorist that would behead your father, rape your mother and shoot your brother in the other.... And you people worry about the rights of murderers. Get a clue people, all you are saying is "Come kill us Mr. Terrorist, were to weak to survive."

How do you know torture works vicchio?

[Chris]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Hey pooey, exactly WHY is this thread in this section hmm? It's a religious attack thread, with insults. Yet instead of doing the job of a MODERATOR, you go after me. Do your job, this thread asks: "So you Bible-thumping bushbots..." So doesn't that violate the forum rules? Or are those arbitarary, on the whim of Pooey if he likes the angle fo the OP?

I dont view this as a religious attack thread. As an atheist, I still believe Jesus was a real man, and also believe he would not advocate torture. Its not an attack on Jesus, its an attack on the policy of torture.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Define Torture first.

How do I know it works? I don't. But then if given the choice of "torturing a terrorist" to save lives or protecting his "rights". I err on the side of caution.

It's a delicate line, but it's a simple equation, if bad guy "A" has information that could save the life or lives of many (either an attack on troops, or a domestic terror event) I would err on the side of life.

If it's a case of lives or his fingers, his fingers get broke.

Torture for the sake of punishment is wrong, torture to save lives... well, I would hate to tell the familes of the dead "I could have saved your loved ones, but I couldn't hurt this terrorist, he has rights ya see, and those were more important then the life of your family members."

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: |Chris| I dont view this as a religious attack thread. As an atheist, I still believe Jesus was a real man, and also believe he would not advocate torture. Its not an attack on Jesus, its an attack on the policy of torture.

It wasn't an attack on Jesus, it was an attack on the "Bible-Thumping Bushbots..."

I mean come on, if I started a loaded thread with the tag "Come on you commie leftie slugs, defend this!"

You'd have report posts against me. That is what angered me. Actually, it was the fact the thread sat in politics and government, and when I turned the loaded question around I got smacked. That was annoying. Seriously.

BTW Thank you for moving the thread.

[RickSp]

Wonderful. Another defense of torture in the name of fear mongering. Cowardly and ridiculous.

And of course no one would ever torture anyone for Jesus unless you count the three hundred years of the Inquisition or two hundred years of the Crusades. And lets not forget the fundamentalists today who think the this round of pointless war is all part of prophesy fortelling the Second Coming. The death of innocents is necessary for the prophesy to be fulfilled.

The Christians are at least as bloodthirsty as any of the major religions, perhaps more so. Who would Jesus torture? No one. The dude's dead, if he ever existed. His followers, on the other hand, will torture just about anyone, if history is any guide.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Hey pooey, exactly WHY is this thread in this section hmm? It's a religious attack thread, with insults. Yet instead of doing the job of a MODERATOR, you go after me. Do your job, this thread asks: "So you Bible-thumping bushbots..." So doesn't that violate the forum rules? Or are those arbitarary, on the whim of Pooey if he likes the angle fo the OP?

Now correct me if I am wrong but are you going to fall for the trap of allowing yourself to be categorised into said description? Clearly this is what they're hoping and you've taken the bait.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Pooeypants Now correct me if I am wrong but are you going to fall for the trap of allowing yourself to be categorised into said description? Clearly this is what they're hoping and you've taken the bait.

That is a nice "arguement" Pooey. Really, I mean instead of explaining why you failed to do your job, and went after me, you make it out like his attack was justifiable. Nice.

But hey, if that makes you feel good, cool beans.

What that statement was, was simple, anyone that supports Bush or is a Christian is automatically lumped into that attack. Since I am both, even posting on the thread dropped me into it. And the same goes for the small but growing number of conservatives on here as well. (shush PH I know your opinion on that score lol)

[Pooeypants]

Argument? If you think so...
Interestingly though, you reported my post before that of Nono's initial starter. As a matter of fact, it hasn't been reported at all. So if it were really that insulting, why didn't you report it earlier?
Curious isn't it?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Why didn't I, I figured the good staff of Volconvo could handle the matter. My mistake. My question is, why are you insisting on attacking me, you did it before my hiatus from the forum, and here you are again. On a thread that broke the rules, you failed to do your job and went after me.

That is the curious situation.


I am through with this, you're lack of responsible behavior has once again been demonstrated. I figure it's obvious enough that it took reporting a moderator to get the thread moved. Do your job.

[Pooeypants]

No, we'll make it clear again. We are no omniscient, people must use the report feature when it is appropriate. Help us to help you, so to speak.

It's clear that you reported my post because what I had to say was more offensive than Nono's original post. Which begs the question, does my post break the rules? Did what I say in my post offend you? Was I wrong? Did you not make strawmen accusations?