Who would Jesus torture?

[brien]

Quote by: Nono Fine. The problem isn't with the Electoral College, which is a rubber stamp made obsolete by modern transport. The problem is the crony-ridden organization of elections at state level that makes it possible to steal them (especially when your own brother is governor of the state concerned God-help-us-all ). The ritual nya-nya-we-don't-care-what-the-world-thinks statement sounds hollow as usual. The point is that you can kiss the America-as-beacon-of-liberty myth goodbye. That beacon has been totally extinguished over the past five years.

The "beacon of liberty" myth is nonsense. It was extinguished long before GWB.

And yes, we as Americans, shouldn't care what the rest of the world thinks. That and a few dollars will buy us a meal. We have far too many problems here at home to "worry" about what the rest of the world thinks of us. Way, way, too high school. This isn't a popularity contest.

You, and anyone else can spin all the dope you want about the recent elections, but no one ever claimed they were perfect except those who hate and criticize America. They need to have something to rile against. Fact is, the electoral processes are the best possible way to elect candidates to date. They have their flaws, of which I am no defender, yet show me a better system in any other country, and it too, will probably have its flaws as well.

So, since everyone participates in the same flawed elections, may the best crook win. The Kennedys were famous for "stealing" elections. The American political system is riddled with influence peddling and cronyism. From the Bush family to the Kennedy family, whose roots are in the crime ridden past of the whiskey smuggling during Prohibition by old man Joe. So quit lecturing the choir with a holier than thou attitude that GWB is unique in his politics. They're all fuckers. It is just a matter of who gets caught, Tom Delay for his fiscal antics, or Robert Byrd for his Ku Klux Klan membership. The Kennedy's for their manslaughter of innocent women, or Nixon and his Watergate shennigans. Where is the justice?

The recent Abramoff (sp) influence peddling scandal in Congress crosses both party lines, and implicates both parties. You really need to sell this GWB is solely responsible for it all somewhere else. Sorry, I don't buy it.

[brien]

Quote by: Milton Bradley The true problem is with the corrupted election process. http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/debates.html Until all of the candidates can be heard, there is little hope of reform from within. There is just no longer any question about whether, or not the debates are exclusionarry, and rigged. The proof is there, if you care to look.

I have no quarrel with open debates. I fully agree with allowing any serious candidate to debate. The Libertarians are routinely shut out of National debates.

I am not saying the election processes may not be corrupted, but rather, some losers always makes a big stink about the corruption they know takes place going into the elections. Some losers make bigger stinks than others. Reallity. Cry babies.

Think about it, can two crooks take each other to court?

Many claimed the election of 1960 was stolen by the Kennedys. Nixon wasn't a sore loser. He went away knowing he would be a better crook someday. The difference between the election of 1960 and 2000 is that the losers of the election of 2000 made a bigger stink about it. It is just history repeating itself, with more noise.

I don't condone crooked politics. But I realize that it is reality. It is called "realpolitik". I don't know how many times I have to write this word. This business that GWB is unique in some of his behavior is just ignoring what has been a reality since the inception of American politics. So when you paint GWB with the brush of crooked politics, remember that brush has a wide stroke that covers many others as well.

[Zealot]

Quote by: brien Zealot: Twain maybe "just a simple writer" and his quotes may or may not ring true to some, it doesn't matter. I just llisted them to churn a little thought, nothing more, nothing less. They aren't meant as gospel. :)

I like that word here, "chum" . You must be an old time fisherman

[Matt W]

Churn, Zealot, not Chum. Learn to read.

[Nono]

brien, your point about 2000/2004 being nothing new is well taken (did JFK really beat Nixon in 1960? etc.). What grosses me out is the flagrant nature of Bush's election-stealing. That and the agenda he's used his most likely illegitimate presence in the White House to promote.

[brien]

Quote by: Nono brien, your point about 2000/2004 being nothing new is well taken (did JFK really beat Nixon in 1960? etc.). What grosses me out is the flagrant nature of Bush's election-stealing. That and the agenda he's used his most likely illegitimate presence in the White House to promote.

Perhaps Bush's more flagrant nature may be due to perceptions ratched up by the difference in the media that covered these elections and the Kennedy Administration itself. For example, the Bay of Pigs debacle in the Kennedy Adminstration, if happened today, would be flashed around the world in a millisecond. I don't recall the press exploiting the story of this clearly illegal action against Cuba. It was surely reported but not exploited by the media to condemn him or his policies. The press used to have a unwritten code of respect when it came to the White House. It probably disappeared during the Nixon Administration.

Unfortunately we are stuck with GWB until early 2009, so we have to make the best of a bad situation. The elections of 2006 will tell a new tale in the electorate. Congress needs to step up to the plate and use their power to enforce the "checks and balance" against a Executive branch that continues to violate the Constitution and the will of the people. Until then, or January of 2009, there is little we citizens can do to stop this Administration from running roughshod over the Constitution of the US.