Who would Jesus torture?

[Samildanach]

Since the shoe doesn't fit, it's nothing more then hate spewed venom by those that cannot accept, cannot TOLERATE the opinions or views of others.

Perhaps its not really a shoe...more of an open toed old fashioned sandle. One size fits all.

[Matt W]

So Christians have a set of values that you dislike... so you think that GIVES you free pass to attack us?

Mr.V, with all due respect, the same argument is used by 'Christians' to attack homosexuals, atheists, evolutionists, etc...the list goes on. The fault is on both sides, no doubt, because no-one is willing to back down. Or turn the other cheek, or whatever.

[Nono]

Quote by: PH I take this to mean, "What would Jesus do if he were a person of my limited understanding in my present circumstances?" (...) He designed the universe and gave us enough information to avoid the consequences of our own wrongdoing.

Isn't the whole point that Jesus was a man, and as such subject to the drives, temptations, etc. of humanhood? Jesus went around as a man, not -- as Vicchio fantasizes -- dispensing with torture because he didn't need it since he could read everybody's mind. :rolleyes:

And when you say "He designed the universe" you're talking God, right?

For the purposes of this thread I'd draw a distinction between the two, but don't want to get into a discussion about the Holy Trinity or anything. :)

[brien]

Quote by: Matt W Mr.V, with all due respect, the same argument is used by 'Christians' to attack homosexuals, atheists, evolutionists, etc...the list goes on. The fault is on both sides, no doubt, because no-one is willing to back down. Or turn the other cheek, or whatever.

As the risk of being boring I will cite a few quotes from my favorite writer:

"If Christ were here now there is one thing he wouldn't be---A Christain."

"I admire the serence assurance of those who have religious faith. It is wonderful to observe the calm confidence of a Christain with four aces."

"We have infinite trouble in solving man-made mysteries; it is only when we set out to discover the secrets of God that our difficulties disappear."

"Most people are bothered by the those passages of Scripture they cannot understand; but as for me, I always noticed that the passages in Scripture which trouble me most are those I do understand."

"There are many scapegoats for our blunders, but the most poplar is Providence."

"I never did a thing in my life, virtuous or otherwise, that I didn't repent of within twenty-four hours."

"It is agreed, in this country, that if a man can arrange his religion so that it perfectly satisfies his conscience, it is not incumbent on him to care whether the arrangement is satifactory to anyone else or not."

"Religion consists in a set of things which the average man thinks he believes and wishes was certain."


All by M. Twain. as the regulars around here know.

[Matt W]

*grins*

An authour with a quote for many occasions.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: shield Absolutely I would mind, but then I wouldn't commit a crime that would under my terms be toturable...

Oh?, Then they recieved fair trials before they were tortured to death? That is how you arrive at torturability? I dont recall Lindy England using "Jesus made me do it" as her defense. If it is so acceptable was was she even arrested?

[brien]

Quote by: Matt W *grins* An authour with a quote for many occasions.

Yep. Never short on words and quotes around here. Have a safe and good Nerw Year. :)

[Milton Bradley]

Who sent the Babylonians to conqure Isreal, and take the Jews as slaves?


Is that torture?

[RickSp]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio The Majority Chrisitan Faithful don't much like being told they are horrible, bigoted, ignorant, closeminded hate mongers. Perhaps RickSp, you should understand that attacking people with such rhetoric tends to make those attacked... surly towards you to say the least.

Do you have that big a problem with even the idea of freedom of speech?

I do not recall claiming that the "Majority Chrisitan (sic) Faithful" "are horrible, bigoted, ignorant, closeminded hate mongers". Most aren't. Fundamentalists, of almost any religion, tend to be. Those who claim that those of us who do not share their views are "attacking them" probably are, but that is best a case by case judgement.

[Zealot]

Quote by: Matt W Mr.V, with all due respect, the same argument is used by 'Christians' to attack homosexuals, atheists, evolutionists, etc...the list goes on. The fault is on both sides, no doubt, because no-one is willing to back down. Or turn the other cheek, or whatever.

But Matt, you are not supposed to attack anyone are you? Is that professional debate?

[Zealot]

Quote by: brien As the risk of being boring I will cite a few quotes from my favorite writer: "If Christ were here now there is one thing he wouldn't be---A Christain." "I admire the serence assurance of those who have religious faith. It is wonderful to observe the calm confidence of a Christain with four aces." "We have infinite trouble in solving man-made mysteries; it is only when we set out to discover the secrets of God that our difficulties disappear." "Most people are bothered by the those passages of Scripture they cannot understand; but as for me, I always noticed that the passages in Scripture which trouble me most are those I do understand." "There are many scapegoats for our blunders, but the most poplar is Providence." "I never did a thing in my life, virtuous or otherwise, that I didn't repent of within twenty-four hours." "It is agreed, in this country, that if a man can arrange his religion so that it perfectly satisfies his conscience, it is not incumbent on him to care whether the arrangement is satifactory to anyone else or not." "Religion consists in a set of things which the average man thinks he believes and wishes was certain." All by M. Twain. as the regulars around here know.

Twain was just a simple writer and Einstein was a famous, intelligent scientist. What did he say about religion?

[shield772]

Quote by: Matt W Rubbish. Every action has a reaction. Christians (and other religious types) persecute all sorts of people - this is the people pushing back. Enough is enough. Do unto others as you would have done unto you - so leave me alone.

My comments wern't actually directed towards you but ok

[Matt W]

Shield, neither were my comments directed at you. There are indeed plenty of moderates on both sides, who long for common sense to prevail, but the fundies on both sides have made this into a real scrap. It's irritating beyond belief.

Twain was just a simple writer and Einstein was a famous, intelligent scientist.

And Zealot - if writing's that simple, I'd love to see you write a similar book. Art & science are very different things.

[Nono]

Quote by: brien You claims of "stealing elections" are patently false. Sour grapes upon the behalf of the LOSERS. The election results have been certified by the electoral college but some people will never accept them. DENY DENY DENY. (..) I RESPECT the ELECORAL COLLEGE which is more than I can say for the losers who claim election fraud.

Oh well then! The Electoral College certifîed the results? I am impressed!! So we can all go back to sleep, eh?

Truth is, brien, as far as I can see nobody outside the US takes it seriously as a functioning democracy anymore. I really mean it. I know people all over the world, and they don't necessarily see eye to eye with me on all issues. But following the pathetically shambolic presidential "elections" in 2000 and 2004, everybody gasped and groaned.
It was truly something out of a Third World farce.

Believe me, the world doesn't take you seriously anymore (though certain governments feel obliged to pay the US lip service). It's embarrassing.

[brien]

[quote=Nono]Oh well then! The Electoral College certifîed the results? I am impressed!! So we can all go back to sleep, eh?

Truth is, brien, as far as I can see nobody outside the US takes it seriously as a functioning democracy anymore. I really mean it. I know people all over the world, and they don't necessarily see eye to eye with me on all issues. But following the pathetically shambolic presidential "elections" in 2000 and 2004, everybody gasped and groaned.
It was truly something out of a Third World farce.

Believe me, the world doesn't take you seriously anymore (though certain governments feel obliged to pay the US lip service). It's embarrassing.[/QUOTE


**************************************************************************************************** ****

Well nono, just because you don't RESPECT the Electoral College, or the US electoral processes, doesn't negate the election. Because you, or the "rest of the world" will gasp and misunderstand our democracy, doesn't negate the elections. What was that expession you used, "truth is", the President is NOT elected by the popular vote.

Furthermore, the Electoral College doesn't certify votes, it elects the president, so you are mistaken about your idea of who certifies votes. The votes are certified by the respective states, the delegates convene, and the "winner take all" rule applies. So much for what you, or others abroad, understand about our election processes. So when you don't know what you are talking about, please, don't foist it upon us as the so called "truth". It is you that has been sleeping and dreaming, not me.

You wrote: I know people all over the world.

Well la dee da.........Big deal. The US is not engaged in a popularity contest. The US has been criticized for its imperialism from 1900 on. It is nothing new to me. The Bush Administration isn't the first, and won't be, the last. The US is the strongest nation in the world and we can weather your criticism, and any other nation's hypocritical backstabbing rhetoric that it throws our way. This is nothing new either.

Your anti American motivations have once again become clear. You elitist attitude is succinctly represented by your arrogance to speak for the entire world in the following statement you wrote:

"Believe me, the world doesn't take you seriously anymore (though certain governments feel obliged to pay the US lip service). It's embarrassing"

The only thing embarrassing here is your arrogance and pretentiousness to speak for the "world" . That "gasp and groan" you heard is the echo of your own elitist frustrations and the stamping of your feet against your misunderstood and innacurate ideas of the electoral processes in the United States of America. Your jaded perceptions of America are fed by your elitist arrogance that you, and others, know better what is "best" for Amercia, than we Americans. Is there no bottom to the depths of your arrogance?

As far as a Third World Farce, look into your own country of France before you cast the first stone in this direction fella.

[brien]

Quote by: Zealot Twain was just a simple writer and Einstein was a famous, intelligent scientist. What did he say about religion?

Zealot: Twain maybe "just a simple writer" and his quotes may or may not ring true to some, it doesn't matter. I just llisted them to churn a little thought, nothing more, nothing less. They aren't meant as gospel. :)

[Nono]

Quote by: brien The election results have been certified by the electoral college.

Quote by: brien The Electoral College doesn't certify votes.

Quote by: brien (...) your own country of France (...)

[brien]

Quote by: Nono

Yes, they don't certify results. My initial statement is misleading but you have taken it out of context. It should have read "validated" the results. This is the idea behind the word. My mistake for not being clear. However the rest of my post stands. And you have failed to address the cogent points of either post. You can't respond to the ideas, only to a one word error. I understand.

My apologies if you are not from France.

The remainder of my post stands as I wrote it.

[Nono]

Quote by: brien The remainder of my post stands as I wrote it.

Fine. The problem isn't with the Electoral College, which is a rubber stamp made obsolete by modern transport. The problem is the crony-ridden organization of elections at state level that makes it possible to steal them (especially when your own brother is governor of the state concerned God-help-us-all ).

The ritual nya-nya-we-don't-care-what-the-world-thinks statement sounds hollow as usual. The point is that you can kiss the America-as-beacon-of-liberty myth goodbye.
That beacon has been totally extinguished over the past five years.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Nono Fine. The problem isn't with the Electoral College, which is a rubber stamp made obsolete by modern transport. The problem is the crony-ridden organization of elections at state level that makes it possible to steal them (especially when your own brother is governor of the state concerned God-help-us-all ). The ritual nya-nya-we-don't-care-what-the-world-thinks statement sounds hollow as usual. The point is that you can kiss the America-as-beacon-of-liberty myth goodbye. That beacon has been totally extinguished over the past five years.

The true problem is with the corrupted election process.


http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/debates.html


Until all of the candidates can be heard, there is little hope of reform from within.


There is just no longer any question about whether, or not the debates are exclusionarry, and rigged. The proof is there, if you care to look.