We have another Tookie who needs to pay his debt

[Chris]

Quote by: shield772 Here are the fundamental differences I mean, Call no man father; the pope is called holy father they pray to mary and saints more than God or Jesus they have many many idols they make people pay for prayers and blessings from the church These are only a few

uh no.

A priest is called "Father..."

Also the part about praying to saints and Mary more than God or Jesus is wrong IMO

[Zealot]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Jesus was arrested by the CHARGES of zealots. The charge was desecrating the sabbath (Have YOU ever worked on a Saturday? I asked you before, but you didnt answer) Later they brought charges that were sure to piss off Caesar "He claimed to be King of the Jews"! I was referring to definitions 1 a. and 1 b.Unless you dont think its overzealous to kill a man for healing on the Sabbath. IMHO it is overzealous to NOT heal, when you have the power to. So, to return to your statement........ Do YOU think its a crime to be zealous about justice?

Of course not. Do you know that one of the disciples of Jesus was called a Zealot? Jesus was arrested by the Roman soldiers accompanied by members of the San-Hedrin and taken to Pontius Pilate The Jewish religious leaders were the ones who wanted him killed.

Look at how many people there are who never get caught for murder they committed. Tookie was not innocent, he deserved what he got and the world is a better place because he is gone. Where do you think Tookie is now???heaven or hell?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: zealot Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Do YOU think its a crime to be zealous about justice? Of course not.

Even in the case of Jesus? Wasnt he given the death penalty, wrongfully? Was he given a fair trial? A lawyer? You would have condemned him yourself, if you were there. A trumpeter of justice. In your blood lust you would murder the wrong guy. I think that divorces you from him. Like Judas. You would arrest Jesus for working on a Saturday, and kill him for it. Even though you have done the same thing. And you have never repented for it. You will neither confirm, nor deny. That speaks volumes to me.

This is the same justice that is still offerred today. Only the rich are innocent, right?

[Zealot]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Even in the case of Jesus? Wasnt he given the death penalty, wrongfully? Was he given a fair trial? A lawyer? You would have condemned him yourself, if you were there. A trumpeter of justice. In your blood lust you would murder the wrong guy. I think that divorces you from him. Like Judas. You would arrest Jesus for working on a Saturday, and kill him for it. Even though you have done the same thing. And you have never repented for it. You will neither confirm, nor deny. That speaks volumes to me. This is the same justice that is still offerred today. Only the rich are innocent, right?

The Romans didn't want a trial because they knew the power Jesus possesed with the people. Pontius Pilate was warned by his wife as to the danger of trying Jesus, that's why he washed his hands of the bloody task. The Jewish people wanted a king and Jesus could well have had their support. They had to get rid of Him quickly and Jesus refused to defend Himself because he was fullfiling phropehcy. Hopefully I would have been a Zealot trumpeting His reason for dying. What would you have done?

[gr8fuldaniel]

I sure wouldnt murder the Son of God. YOU WOULD? You sick fuck, go to hell. You may get to share the fate of Judas Iscariot, with that attitude. Judas was the incarnation of evil, but you applaud him. Shame on you.

Why do you think Jesus HAD to die that day? There is no prophesy that said it had to be that day.
Since he was without sin, he didnt have to die. He was worth more to us alive.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Me Since he was without sin, he didnt have to die.

To clarify:
The ONLY reason he had to die that day, is because he was betrayed. There could be No legitimate charges brought, he was pure as the driven snow. So when he was arrested, he had to abide in his own word...........
He could not resist arrest. He could not resist evil.
By his own words:

Matthew 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also;

Christ could not stop them with all the power in the universe at his disposal, because the evil of this world MUST have its way. That goes for mass murderers, evil presidents and twisted deviants in our streets.

I dont claim to be a saint, but if I were, I would not even be allowed (by nature and with Gods help) self defense.

But God forbid that I should ever become the instrument of Satan:

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil

[Zealot]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel To clarify: The ONLY reason he had to die that day, is because he was betrayed. There could be No legitimate charges brought, he was pure as the driven snow. So when he was arrested, he had to abide in his own word........... He could not resist arrest. He could not resist evil. By his own words: Christ could not stop them with all the power in the universe at his disposal, because the evil of this world MUST have its way. That goes for mass murderers, evil presidents and twisted deviants in our streets. I dont claim to be a saint, but if I were, I would not even be allowed (by nature and with Gods help) self defense. But God forbid that I should ever become the instrument of Satan:

greight, what do you suppose Jesus mean't when He said this? "For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me...." Luke 22-37 also Luke 22-16 ..."..until it be fulfilled in heaven."

BTW greight, what has sexual intercourse have to do with this topic?

[Matt W]

BTW greight, what has sexual intercourse have to do with this topic?

Nothing, and you appear to be the one who brought it up....something on your mind, Zealot?

[Digital Man]

Quote by: Matt W Turn the other cheek. - J.Christ.

We turned the other cheek and put that scumbag in prison, then he managed to commit murder behind bars. Sorry Bub...ran out of cheeks to turn

[Zealot]

Quote by: Matt W Nothing, and you appear to be the one who brought it up....something on your mind, Zealot?

You might read post 45 to answer your question.

[gr8fuldaniel]

greight, what do you suppose Jesus mean't when He said this? "For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me...." Luke 22-37 also Luke 22-16 ..."..until it be fulfilled in heaven."

Didnt say it had to happen that day. "Good Friday" my ass. Why was the sun blacked out? It was the darkest day in human history. God allowed a conspiracy of evil men to betray and murder his innocent Son.

On topic:
If Caesar (The Gropenator) had offerred Barrabas (Tookie) or Jesus, who would you set free? You already admitted would you demand the execution of the innocent one. You would crucify Jesus. And you dont even get how evil that is. Your hands are bloody. Shame.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Zealot Quote by: Matt W Nothing, and you appear to be the one who brought it up....something on your mind, Zealot? You might read post 45 to answer your question.

You might read the rules for the MISC section of the forum. At the top of this page:

We allow more room for rule violations in this part of the forum because some topics cannot be discussed without a little more freedom (lack of “credible” sources, a few insult slips, etc).

I did not threaten you. That is never tolerated on Volconvo, not even in this section.

I merely called you a sick fuck (true) and suggested a vacation with your co-conspirators in the assassination of the King of Kings.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Digital Man Quote by: Matt W Turn the other cheek. - J.Christ. We turned the other cheek and put that scumbag in prison, then he managed to commit murder behind bars. Sorry Bub...ran out of cheeks to turn

He did 6 years in solitary for those crimes (behind bars) and came out a changed man. He started campaigning AGAINST gang life. Helped to turn a lot of kids away from becoming what he had become. But, thats not the best treason for letting him live the rest of his life behind bars. The best reason is because he may have been innocent. Not innocent like Jesus was innocent. In fact, he prolly killed and had others kill for him a lot of times. The problem is they didnt have a case against him without the prosecution cutting a deal with a snitch and providing the snitch with states evidence folder.

The Tookie threat was removed from society and had, in fact, had become a force for good IN the society he had been banished from. Like a post-humous message from hell, as a fair warning to kids who HAVE to live in the jungle and make flight or fight decisions every day.

Thats the real world.

[shield772]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel To clarify: The ONLY reason he had to die that day, is because he was betrayed. There could be No legitimate charges brought, he was pure as the driven snow. So when he was arrested, he had to abide in his own word........... He could not resist arrest. He could not resist evil. By his own words: Christ could not stop them with all the power in the universe at his disposal, because the evil of this world MUST have its way. That goes for mass murderers, evil presidents and twisted deviants in our streets. I dont claim to be a saint, but if I were, I would not even be allowed (by nature and with Gods help) self defense. But God forbid that I should ever become the instrument of Satan:

Matthew 26 67 Then they spat in His face and beat Him; and others struck Him with the palms of their hands,

fullfilling the prophecy in

Isaiah 50 6 I gave My back to those who struck Me, And My cheeks to those who plucked out the beard; I did not hide My face from shame and spitting.

Matthew 27 9 Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced, 10 and gave them for the potter’s field, as the LORD directed me.”

Matthew 27 26 Then he released Barabbas to them; and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered Him to be crucified.

Fullfills prophecy of

Isaiah 53 5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.

Matthew 27 35 Then they crucified Him, and divided His garments, casting lots,[f] that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet: “ They divided My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.”

Psalm 22 18 They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.

Matthew 27 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

Psalm 22 1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping Me, And from the words of My groaning?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Your point?

[shield772]

He had to die because it was the new covenant and because it was profecised, he knew he was gonna die and why it was necesary.

[gr8fuldaniel]

All of those prophesies could have been fulfilled at a later time. Ten years later, 100 or even 1000 years later or double it. Jesus could concievably still be alive today. Hell, Methuselah lived 969 years and he was a sinner. Think what a great place the world would be by now! Judas sold out the whole world for 30 bucks (appx)

[shield772]

Well I can't argue with that. But will Judas be forgiven?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: shield772 He had to die because it was the new covenant and because it was profecised, he knew he was gonna die and why it was necesary.

Perhaps, but then you are saying that Judas was tempted beyond what he was able to withstand. (If it HAD to happen at that exact time, and not, say 4 days or twenty years later) I thought we had a promise that that would never happen? That God would not tempt us beyond what we can withstand?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: shield772 Well I can't argue with that. But will Judas be forgiven?

Sure, if he wants it. I look at suicide as a legit way to end insufferable tragedy. If he pumps his fist and says "Feels Good", I dont see any repentance or remorse in him at all.