What's up with Hitler?

[Son of Belial]

If you think being alive means success, there are a lot of homeless, gutter trash, riffraff, mentally incompetant idiots that are very successful.

Including all the people in prison for life, our president, Osama, and Hussein for a little while... the list goes on.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Son of Belial Studied of Hitler's facilities have said they were poorly designed. If I recall correctly, and no I don't have a source, the leading US gas chamber designer(or some shit like that) said he had no idea how they were functional.

Interesting SOB. You repeat holocaust denial crap without atttribution, and quote an un-named "US gas chamber designer (or some shit like that)" - I'd go with the "shit" part.

I cannot speak to the technical details of gas chamber design but I do know that a large portion of my wife's family was murdered in the camps. If you wish to do something other than repeat neo-Nazi denial crap you might actually do some reading:
Holocaust Denial & The Big Lie

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: underbear1 I know of no Neo-Stalinists.

I do, they call themselves the Democrats,

Just Kidding, I couldnt resist.

The reason Hitler is always used is because everybody knows what he did. He has not so much become thought of as the only person to be that evil, he has simply become an icon for all men of that sort, including Stalin, et al.

[Son of Belial]

Quote by: RickSp Interesting SOB. You repeat holocaust denial crap without atttribution, and quote an un-named "US gas chamber designer (or some shit like that)" - I'd go with the "shit" part. I cannot speak to the technical details of gas chamber design but I do know that a large portion of my wife's family was murdered in the camps. If you wish to do something other than repeat neo-Nazi denial crap you might actually do some reading: Holocaust Denial & The Big Lie

Hey Rick, you ever debate without personal attacks, or is that just your style?

Yes it was without attribution. I admitted it was so. You're an asshole.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Son of Belial Hey Rick, you ever debate without personal attacks, or is that just your style? Yes it was without attribution. I admitted it was so. You're an asshole.

You quote skin head crap and you call me an asshole? You have more than demonstrated who and what you are, SOB .

[Son of Belial]

Yes, I called you an asshole because your bullshit arguments are always filled with ad hominem attacks. Good job pointing out that I clearly said I didn't have a source. You're a fucking cock.

Ah, Volconvo, where people can debate unless it disagrees with people who kiss Sean's ass in which case they can throw around ad hominem attacks all they want. Please, don't state any facts or use sources people don't like or you're on RickSP, the fake engineer's shit list.

Rick, go fuck yourself.

[RickSp]

SOB, with every post you demonstrate who you are. What more need be said?

You repeat holocaust denier crap then get offended when I point it out. Your conspiracy garbage is laughable. About half your post stink of bigotry. Even your insults are pathetic. Boring, really.

[Son of Belial]

Sure Rick. Whatever helps you sleep you stupid son of a bitch. "Half my posts," care to back that assertion up you cocksucker, or do you not have time enough between trying to pry your lips off of Sean's cock and making fucking personal attacks in ever debate?

By the way, one of my best friends' father was in Sachenhausen, Orrenberg and Dachau.

So somewhere between saying homosexuals should have equal rights and saying I'm a socialist and against fascism, somehow I managed to have half my posts reek of bigotry.

I stand by my statement, you're a fucking asshole.

[RickSp]

LOL. You do go on.

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: underbear1 Maybe it's the Neo Nazi groups and skinheads which idolize and emulate him, which keeps him as a topic of discussion. I know of no Neo-Stalinists. If an arguement is discussing Nazi tactics and you bring up Hitler, that doesn't negate your point of view. Survivors of the Holocaust knew revisionist history would take place, that's why they swore NEVER AGAIN. If we ignore early signs of fascism, we are risking repeating those horrors.

They are called Stalinists, and the exist.

[Son of Belial]

Keep laughing Rick. I'm surprised you have time what with being Sean's bitch and all.

[abub]

lol. Rick, SOB, chill. I had a feeling this thread would end up ugly when I started it... but never imagined things ending up like this. Just settle down, talk about modern-day references of Hitler, not assholes, fuckers, dicks, etc.

[RickSp]

Quote by: abub lol. Rick, SOB, chill. I had a feeling this thread would end up ugly when I started it... but never imagined things ending up like this. Just settle down, talk about modern-day references of Hitler, not assholes, fuckers, dicks, etc.

I'm chill. I never used that sort of language. Must be just some of the meaningless background noise you hear around here from time to time.

Quote by: underbear1 I know of no Neo-Stalinists.

Quote by: bugsbunny04 I do, they call themselves the Democrats, Just Kidding, I couldnt resist. The reason Hitler is always used is because everybody knows what he did. He has not so much become thought of as the only person to be that evil, he has simply become an icon for all men of that sort, including Stalin, et al.

Funny how many neo-cons started out as Trotskyites.

I think the reason Hitler is considered the embodiment of evil is two fold:

1. He was always the bad guy. Excluding only certain members of the British and American upper classes, Hitler was never particularly admired in the West. Stalin had a run as "the enemy of our enemy"- our uneasy friend and strong ally. He was only officially outed as a monster by his own gang when Khurschev denounced him in 1956. Stalin had been admired by some in the west for several decades before he became the "bad guy." Hitler was "bad" from the beginning.

2. Hitler mechanized murder in way that is still chilling. Stalin killed people the old fashion way, with deportation, starvation, and old fashioned slaughter. This tends to be spread out and somewhat easier to fold into the landscape. Hilter's mass production of murder, organized into factories with suppy channels and assembly line slaughter is too violent and vivid an image to let fade.

[G. Adams]

The only reason Stalin beats Hitler in the killing states is the length of time he had to do it. Stalin was head of the USSR for over two decades, Hitler barely had 12, and he didn't really hit his stride till the war started in '39. I'm sure if Hitler's reign matched Stalin's he'd outstrip him. It probably would have been a matter of pride to do so.

And the reason that Hitler comes up as most evil is that he couldn't keep his hands to his own country and just had to start wars. If he had kept to Germany (and Austria really) no-one would have stopped him. It's a good thing Hitler did keep pushing the boat out or else by the time we realised what he was up to it would have been too late to save any European Jew's or gypsies.

[Nono]

Deft summary, Rick. And I agree with G that Hitler was the author of his own destruction.
Both were crazy as loons, but the long Russian tradition of tyrannical government and the sheer size of the country (did Stalin ever have to worry about his oil supply?), meant that he could act weird with impunity, while Hitler eventually stepped on enough foreign toes to get his comeuppance.

I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to say that Putin is truly heir to Stalin. He's busily closing the hatches in Russia, and the Russians appear to view this as completely normal. And he's getting a hell of an easy ride in the Western media.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Nono Deft summary, Rick. And I agree with G that Hitler was the author of his own destruction. Both were crazy as loons, but the long Russian tradition of tyrannical government and the sheer size of the country (did Stalin ever have to worry about his oil supply?), meant that he could act weird with impunity, while Hitler eventually stepped on enough foreign toes to get his comeuppance. I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to say that Putin is truly heir to Stalin. He's busily closing the hatches in Russia, and the Russians appear to view this as completely normal. And he's getting a hell of an easy ride in the Western media.

Off-topic I know but...I really don't like Putin, yet I think he's getting a worse image than is neccesary. The Western media shows how he closing down private business owners and pulling power away from the regional governments. Yet these are not normal business owners. These are oligarchs who groomed and chose Putin in the first place, but when they realised he was a populist and would thus undermine their power, they have been using all possible means to undermine him. And these oligarchs also often have conenctions to the Russian mafia. It's because he's busting these traitorous thieves that he's popular at home.

[underbear1]

There are complications in Hitler's life which didn't fit into the version he was the Aryan German jew- hater, queer -hater and a thug. In fact he was Austrian (that was quite a PR job Austrians did to keep that downplayed), he was deeply concerned he was the half jewish b*stard from a man that wasn't married to his mother. He picked up whatever disenfranchiesed allies he could in his quest to become powerful,( including the head of the SA,who was an ugly queer who's position of power led him to bring quite a few gays into the NAZI party), until Goering rose in the rival SS faction, and killed all the queers on "The Night of Long Knives." Hitler as a young man had sought to be an artist, and was dismissed as not talented enough, perhaps if they had allowed him to become a mediocre painter, he may never have gone into politics.

[Nono]

Quote by: G.Adams Putin (is) getting a worse image than is neccesary. The Western media shows how he closing down private business owners and pulling power away from the regional governments.

Off-topic but what the hell. These are the least of the objections to Putin. Look at Chechnya and tell me he isn't being coddled by the Western press. And that's just one example. The things he's doing to any hint of political opposition in Russia are perfectly in tune with his KGB origins.

Speaking of which, I was talking the other day with someone who actually knew him (and some of his victims) way back in Leningrad. Hair-raising. A vicious punk.

[Nono]

Quote by: underbear Hitler was Austrian (that was quite a PR job Austrians did to keep that downplayed).

It has been said that the great achievement of the Austrians since WWII has been to persuade the world that Beethoven was Austrian and Hitler was German.