Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Zealot · Oct 18, 2005, 03:37 am

(Continuing the edited version of George Will's message regarding the neccessity of preemptive strikes.)
I say this not to disparage the Iraqi people but to increase our appreciation of what a miracle the United States is. John Adams said that the American Revolution was accomplished before the Battles of Lexington and Concord. Everyone used to learn - we do not learn these things anymore - Emerson's great poem about the battle of Concord's bridge: "by the rude bridge that arched the flood/their flag to April's breeze unfurled/here once the embattled farmers stood/and fired the shot heard round the world." But before that shot was fired, according to John Adams, independence had already been accomplished, because the spirit of independence was in the hearts and minds of the American people, a people prepared to shed blood in defense of their God-given natural rights.

One of the mistakes our enimies have made - and one of the reasons I wish our enimies would study American history to disabuse themselves of some grotesque errors- is their belief that we are squeamish about defending freedom and about the violence of war.
They persist in the assumption that we are casualty averse. Osama Bin Laden said as much after the Somalia debacle when President Clinton, after suffering some casualties, immediately withdrew American forces. Whether or not we should have been in Somalia is another matter, but the means by which we left Somalia clearly convinced our enimies that we were paper tigers. People have been making that mistake since Gen. Howe made it in the Battle of Brooklyn Heights in the Revolutionary War. He chased us across the East River and figured that was it. It was said again after the Battle of Shiloh in April 1862 - up to that day the bloodiest day in American history.

A few days after Shiloh, some men were seen on the strill corpse-strewn fields of northern Maryland, men carrying strange devices. THey were from Matthew Brady's photo studio in New York, and they took pictures. Three months later, these photos became an exhibitof devastating impact in Manhattan called the" Dead of Antietam" . It was the first time graphic journalism had brought the real face of war to a democratic public.
And it raised the question that to this day affects us and troubles political leaders: Does graphic journalism - first photography and then, of course, television - that brings war into our living rooms, in real time, cause nations to crack when they first see the real face of battle?

The war in Nam produced anxiety about graphic journalism, where it was suggested that in fact it was television that caused the American will to break. In fact, the will never broke- but that is another matter.

One hundred years ago, people believed not only was war inevitable, but that war was good for us. Without it, they thought, we would have to look for strenuous domestic challenges that would be the moral equivalent of war - something elevating that would pull us out of ourselves and into great collective endeavors as war does.
It was Immanuel Kant, who said "a prolonged peace favors the predominance of a mere commercial spirit, and with it a debasing self-interest, cowardice, and effeminacy and tends to degrade the character of the nation...............

Continued........."Reprinted in part by permission from Imprimis, the national speech digest of Hillsdale College, www.hillsdale.edu." by George F. Will, journalist

Clarence · Oct 18, 2005, 11:44 am

Zealot, don't take this personally, because I've friends who spit the same nonsense you do, but this post is retarded and I seriously doubt that the article hasn't been altered by you.

However; I feel bad that you've met such resistance on Volconvo. Mr.Perfectho doesn't even stand up for you. Keep talking, it takes all sorts to make the America I love. provide a link or something dude!

tinybear · Oct 18, 2005, 11:50 am

Quote:

Quote by: Zealot

One of the mistakes our enimies have made - and one of the reasons I wish our enimies would study American history to disabuse themselves of some grotesque errors- is their belief that we are squeamish about defending freedom and about the violence of war.
They persist in the assumption that we are casualty averse. Osama Bin Laden said as much after the Somalia debacle when President Clinton, after suffering some casualties, immediately withdrew American forces.

"Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans - born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Protostar · Oct 18, 2005, 03:59 pm

Although I don't agree with any of what you've posted Zealot, I would appreciate a link so that I may check the validity of the article.

rcne · Oct 18, 2005, 06:05 pm

Quote:

Continued........."Reprinted in part by permission from Imprimis, the national speech digest of Hillsdale College, www.hillsdale.edu." by George F. Will, journalist

Isn't this a reference for those who wish to check it out? Or a quick google on any of the text brings up a wealth of sites listing this. Google is my friend.

www.hillsdale.edu/imprimis/
orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/WillPreemption.php
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=112221

Zealot · Oct 19, 2005, 04:11 am

Quote:

Quote by: Clarence

Zealot, don't take this personally, because I've friends who spit the same nonsense you do, but this post is retarded and I seriously doubt that the article hasn't been altered by you.

However; I feel bad that you've met such resistance on Volconvo. Mr.Perfectho doesn't even stand up for you. Keep talking, it takes all sorts to make the America I love. provide a link or something dude!

SURPRISE!!!
Thank you Clarence, I really didn't expect to hear this from you. I assure you this writting has not been altered by me, only shortened for brevity. I also realize that truth has been called nonsense before, especially by those who wish to suppress. Notice that there is a www at the end of the article.
Remember, a Zealot thrives on resistance, he devours words that attempt to strangle truth.

Zealot....en garde...you have my respect!

Zealot · Oct 19, 2005, 04:13 am

Quote:

Quote by: Protostar

Although I don't agree with any of what you've posted Zealot, I would appreciate a link so that I may check the validity of the article.

I have given you a www on the article. Keep reading sir, you will not be the first to find the truth,

Zealot

Zealot · Oct 19, 2005, 04:16 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

"Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans - born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Thank you Bear, my God what a read for old sore eyes....God Bless America

Zealot, my hats off to thee tiny(big)bear

Clarence · Oct 25, 2005, 05:57 pm

Sorry, missed the link. I feel it is dangerous to place America on high. Doesn't seem like what God would want. God Bless the World!

Oct 18, 2005, 03:37 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Zealot BANNED: Repeated warnings, troll Posts: 1,431	The Miracle of America (Continuing the edited version of George Will's message regarding the neccessity of preemptive strikes.) I say this not to disparage the Iraqi people but to increase our appreciation of what a miracle the United States is. John Adams said that the American Revolution was accomplished before the Battles of Lexington and Concord. Everyone used to learn - we do not learn these things anymore - Emerson's great poem about the battle of Concord's bridge: "by the rude bridge that arched the flood/their flag to April's breeze unfurled/here once the embattled farmers stood/and fired the shot heard round the world." But before that shot was fired, according to John Adams, independence had already been accomplished, because the spirit of independence was in the hearts and minds of the American people, a people prepared to shed blood in defense of their God-given natural rights. One of the mistakes our enimies have made - and one of the reasons I wish our enimies would study American history to disabuse themselves of some grotesque errors- is their belief that we are squeamish about defending freedom and about the violence of war. They persist in the assumption that we are casualty averse. Osama Bin Laden said as much after the Somalia debacle when President Clinton, after suffering some casualties, immediately withdrew American forces. Whether or not we should have been in Somalia is another matter, but the means by which we left Somalia clearly convinced our enimies that we were paper tigers. People have been making that mistake since Gen. Howe made it in the Battle of Brooklyn Heights in the Revolutionary War. He chased us across the East River and figured that was it. It was said again after the Battle of Shiloh in April 1862 - up to that day the bloodiest day in American history. A few days after Shiloh, some men were seen on the strill corpse-strewn fields of northern Maryland, men carrying strange devices. THey were from Matthew Brady's photo studio in New York, and they took pictures. Three months later, these photos became an exhibitof devastating impact in Manhattan called the" Dead of Antietam" . It was the first time graphic journalism had brought the real face of war to a democratic public. And it raised the question that to this day affects us and troubles political leaders: Does graphic journalism - first photography and then, of course, television - that brings war into our living rooms, in real time, cause nations to crack when they first see the real face of battle? The war in Nam produced anxiety about graphic journalism, where it was suggested that in fact it was television that caused the American will to break. In fact, the will never broke- but that is another matter. One hundred years ago, people believed not only was war inevitable, but that war was good for us. Without it, they thought, we would have to look for strenuous domestic challenges that would be the moral equivalent of war - something elevating that would pull us out of ourselves and into great collective endeavors as war does. It was Immanuel Kant, who said "a prolonged peace favors the predominance of a mere commercial spirit, and with it a debasing self-interest, cowardice, and effeminacy and tends to degrade the character of the nation............... Continued........."Reprinted in part by permission from Imprimis, the national speech digest of Hillsdale College, www.hillsdale.edu." by George F. Will, journalist

Oct 18, 2005, 03:59 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Protostar Hardcore Capitalist Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	Although I don't agree with any of what you've posted Zealot, I would appreciate a link so that I may check the validity of the article. "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." . . . Susan B. Anthony

Oct 18, 2005, 11:44 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Clarence pregnant with truth Posts: 2,165	Zealot, don't take this personally, because I've friends who spit the same nonsense you do, but this post is retarded and I seriously doubt that the article hasn't been altered by you. However; I feel bad that you've met such resistance on Volconvo. Mr.Perfectho doesn't even stand up for you. Keep talking, it takes all sorts to make the America I love. provide a link or something dude!

Oct 25, 2005, 05:57 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Clarence pregnant with truth Posts: 2,165	Sorry, missed the link. I feel it is dangerous to place America on high. Doesn't seem like what God would want. God Bless the World!