Pornography

[YourTokah]

What do you think pornography is? How do you classify it?

Is it nearly-naked bodies captured on film or in print? Or pictures of genitalia? Or of the sex act only?

Is pornography detrimental to a healthy society?
And if you think so, please explain why.

Could it be good for society?

Do you enjoy pornography?

I consider pornography to be pictures, video, etc. of the sex act or a simulated sex act. Nakedness doesn't count, for me. I enjoy pornography with my husband. Do you think this makes me a degenerate? I enjoy it when I'm all alone, too. Does this mean I'm a pervert? Or maybe a little twisted?

I'm interested in hearing everyone's views on this subject.

Personally, I enjoy pornography and think it can be a perfectly healthy and normal interest.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

It's like drinking alcohol or smoking weed--pleasing to the body in different ways. Makes you're hormones go nuts, like when your adrenaline rushes on a roller coaster. Especially for those out there who aren't good at getting these hormones going in real life, pornography is a way to do that. There's very few things wrong with it. Some think it degrades women, because a lot more men claim to watch more pornography than women, and the industries are owned by a lot of men, so women are in almost everything. Other than this small side issue, I can see nothing wrong with it. It is human nature, like watching the discovery channel.

[Flip Jackson]

I've always thought that pornagraphy was anything that aroused you, whether it be pictures, books, or whatever. I think there are levels of it, too. For example, a picture of a girl in a seductive pose while half dressed, is not as pornagraphic as a movie of two nude people going at it. I have heard it described as "harder" or "softer" pornography.

I personally feel pornography affects people and society. It encourages people to focus on appearance more than attributes of people. I think the ability to mass produce and send out pornography has hurt relationships all over the place. People are disappointed with spouses because they don't live up to the level of the viewed porn. Men and women both may feel that they aren't adequate because their partner turns to looking at other people. People that don't look like the men and women in porn are often seen as not being good enough.

While I don't think sex itself is bad, it has a time and place. As Orgaelin would say, there needs to be balance. Porn often doesn't balance well with the rest of your life. It kind of takes more time than it should.

I aslo think sex is treated too lightly these days. I don't think we should have it all over the place. It should be saved for marraige. There is more involved than just meeting a physical need. Porn turns sex into something commonplace and dirty.

I guess you can take that how you will, but that's how I feel.

[Jack]

I aslo think sex is treated too lightly these days. I don't think we should have it all over the place. It should be saved for marraige.

EEEKS! If I shared that philosophy, "The 40 Year Old Virgin" would have been a documentary of my life (a few years ago, granted...or we would have had to change the age in the title).
I enjoy porn. I don't confuse it with reality. In fact, my taste in porn is probably broader than my preferences in real life. But as with all aquired tastes...each to his/her own. What does it for me may not do it for you.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

lol, how can you save sex for marraige? Sex is one of the most exciting things a human and another human can do with one another. Why wait until marraige? What are you losing by having sex earlier other than your virginity? Who cares? Unless your a dumbass and don't use a condom.

[tinybear]

I don't care what you guys say. I've already decided to save sex for marriage.

[Chris]

though I dont agree with TB its probably the best idea IMO cause of all the STDs going around. There are STDs that you can get even while wearing a condom BTW.

[Jack]

There are some of us who aren't even interested in trying to tempt TB out of her stance. :)
Yes, I agree, you need to be careful and smart about your behavior IN ADDITION to using protection. Either that or leave it alone until you can.

[Athena]

You all are saying some really stuff here, and the thoughts are popping in my mind faster than I can keep up with them. About porn being fantasy and enjoying things in porn that one would not do in real life, forces me to speak of a modern day witch hunt that has been as unjust as the witch hunts of old.

When a male or female is suspect of molesting a child, they are subject to a very unscientific test and can be labeled sex offers, loose all rights to even visit with their children, and be forced into expensive treatment which they must pay for themselves, and face job restrictions preventing them from working around children. Like it is a real nightmare to be a charged with inappropriate sexual behavior involving children!

The test is thought by the scientifically ignorant, including judges, to be scientifically accurate. It is not! Because the test can not be tested on a truly random sample of the population, we do not know how "normal" people would respond. All that is known is people who have been accused of sexual deviation have a response to the stimulus used for the test. The test determines normal from abnormal people, as well as dumping an accused witch in a pond, proves or disproves the person is a witch.

Sorry for distracting this thread, but this is such an injustice, I couldn't resist this opportunity to increase awareness of the injustice.

[Nono]

So true that paedophilia is the current focus of hysteria (in addition to "terrism" of course). One little whisper and you're finished.

Back to the topic: Since the principal human sex organ is the brain, anything perceived by the brain as titillating can be classified as pornography. And what was titillating in the Victorian age (a bare ankle, say) sure won't make the grade today. On the other hand, the Victorians couldn't have conceived of some of the stuff you can find today. Thus the line is constantly moving, which makes it nearly impossible to nail down a definition.

Pornography is probably harmful in excess, like a million other things.

[Athena]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 lol, how can you save sex for marraige? Sex is one of the most exciting things a human and another human can do with one another. Why wait until marraige? What are you losing by having sex earlier other than your virginity? Who cares? Unless your a dumbass and don't use a condom.

My youngest granddaughter got through a condom, and because the parents are not compatible this is an unfortunate reality.

I enjoy some porn, and worry less about my neighbors enjoying porn than about them enjoying the human suffering that we call entertainment. Regular nightly TV programming is very harmful to society, promoting a very low standard of morality, and endulging our lowest carnal lust. Especially for the inner city slum children, this is a very unhealthy diet for their young minds. When porn includes the low morality of our regular nightly TV programs, it is also harmful to society.

If you want to watch a really hot movie, watch the original "King Kong" movie. It is very sexual! Our recent past was not as Puritanical as some may imagine but more subtle, and therefore, even more arousing than in your face sexuality. Interestingly the value of women rides with the tidy of our morality. The higher our sexual morality, the more women are valued. The lower our morality, the lower the value of women. Cheap sex, is a terrible social price for women and children. It is like our whole value of being human drops. On the other hand, an interest in philosophy and chivalry, honor, human dignity, increases our general senses of human value.

Sleezy porn is interesting for maybe 15 minutes, and I would not want to spend much time with those who chose sleezy porn over other choices.

Last thought, romance novels really set women up for unrealistic expectations of living with a man. Romantic thinking leaves women very unprepared for reality. Hum, without science and philosophy, the whole world goes to hell.

[YourTokah]

Quote by: Flip Jackson Porn often doesn't balance well with the rest of your life. It kind of takes more time than it should. I aslo think sex is treated too lightly these days. I don't think we should have it all over the place. It should be saved for marraige. There is more involved than just meeting a physical need. Porn turns sex into something commonplace and dirty.

First of all, I'm guessing you've watched some porn to come to the conclusion that it doesn't balance well with the rest of your life. If it is taking more time than it should, then there's the issue of addiction or something else going on and watching porn is a symptom. I could just say - Don't watch it so much that it throws your whole life out of balance. In that instance, porn isn't the problem, You are and the underlying issues you have.

As to sex being treated too lightly - is it supposed to be something sacred? Bordering on a religious experience? Given to us by a god?

Sex is natural. Sex is a very important part of life and life's purpose. One could argue that the only purpose in life is to procreate, and you can't do that without having sex.

As to having it all over the place - this amuses me. What exactly do you mean? People having multiple partners? Or even having multiple partners at one time? Sex in the car wash? Oral on an interstate? Sex in the basement of your parent's house? In a sex club with strangers watching?

And as for saving it for marriage - well, I'm married. I have a husband and we both watch porn, together and separately, and we have sex all over the place. And sometimes - it gets all over the place :) What we do is MORE than us meeting a physical need. It's fun, it's exercise, it's intimate, it's pleasurable. It helps keep us happy and in love and in lust and interested in one another on levels other than those of financial life partner and co-parent.

How does pornography turn sex into something commonplace and dirty? First of all, in case you didn't already know this, sex is pretty commonplace. I'm pretty sure it has happened at least once in every house in my neighborhood. In most houses, it's probably at least once a month. Some houses - once or twice a day! Commonplace, yes.
Dirty?
Sex isn't dirty unless it's non-consensual or being done in some drug-induced state or out of desperation for money to feed your kids. Then it can make you feel pretty dirty because you aren't diong it for the right reasons. But porn has nothing to do with making it dirty.
Do you mean Dirty Porn? Like male on male, lesbian, group orgies, etc.? That kind of porn? Maybe s&m, bondage, domination.... Is that dirty?
I guess one man's dirty is another man's different. And different can be fun.

[YourTokah]

I'd like to amend a statement - sex in a drug-induced state isn't necessarily dirty, either. I've had sex on ex and LSD and it was great, great, great, both during and AFter, when I'd sobered up.

[Flip Jackson]

I will clarify my statements a little as I realized I didn't make them very clear.

When I said "I don't think we should have it all over the place," I meant the way it streams through every brance of the media known to man whether we like it or not. I did not mean sex itself, but the way we treat sex as a toy in magazines, television shows, commercials, billboards, movies, games, and whatever other outlet you can think of. Almost every thing and everyone seems to say that sex has no emotional purpose and should be had with whoever, whenever. This is the ill effect of porn. Especially unavoidable, mass porn.

And while I have other reasons for thinking we treat sex too lightly, I do feel it is sacred. It is kind of tied with my view of marraige, with I consider sacred also. Sex has so many other pieces to it than just satisfying a physical need. It allows for an intimacy and emotional connection with someone you are close to.

While I agree sex is natural, I consider humans above animals. Having sex merely to procreate is what animals do. There is a lot more involved when humans have sex. This is what makes it detrimental to people and society.

If you are married, I don't really care what you do with your partner. Not really my business.

When I say commonplace and dirty, I mean we show no respect for the act anymore. It is done by people who don't know each other, but want to slick their lusts. There is no requirement but being human sometimes. Porn seems to encourage sex with anyone just to quench your sexual appetite. This is a problem. We can't act as if sex doesn't have emotional and phychological effects. If there was nothing beyond the physical act, then why do affairs cause so many problems? Why is it worse than shaking someone's hand? Because there are emotional ties involved. Another human's feelings are at stake. Sex has powerful effects on the participants, and we should respect that power more than we do.


I do not mean to condemn or insult anyone, but I am giving my view on what this stuff does.

[Flip Jackson]

Soccer, you asked how and why you should save sex for marraige.

How? That isn't tough. You practice some self-discipline. You recognize that you control your body and aren't driven solely by instinct.

Why? There are a number or reasons.

One-Even with condemns, a child could be born into a rather unstable situation, unless you decide to stay together for the child's sake.

Two-Condemns offer basically no protection from STDs, only childbirth. Having sex befotre marraige is more likely to spread STDs, beacsue you have to have certain tests to get married. There is no such requirement for the guy or girl you choose to sleep with outside of marraige.

Three-As I have said before, sex has strong emotional and psycological effects on those involved. Unless I am mistaken, that is part of the reason it is so alluring. Playing with, or disregarding emotions is simply foolish. Ignoring emotions of others and yourself causes so many problems these days.

I can ask an alternate question. Why not wait until marraige? Why is it such a big deal to save virginity for someone that you plan to be with for a long time? Doesn't that make your bond with that person stronger if they know you saved yourself for them?

I see this as the danger of porn. Sex is treated as if there is no effect other than the physical pleasure you recieve. The way we promote sex today is similar to the way we used to promote cigarettes in the past. Cigarettes use to be the cool thing. All sorts of commericials showed the "hip" people smoking. The negative effect were never mentioned. The same is true of sex and porn today. Porn and our society would have us think we are cool if we get action all the time, especially if it is with different people. But the dangers are almost never mentioned.

[YourTokah]

Quote by: Flip Jackson When I said "I don't think we should have it all over the place," I meant the way it streams through every brance of the media known to man whether we like it or not. I did not mean sex itself, but the way we treat sex as a toy in magazines, television shows, commercials, billboards, movies, games, and whatever other outlet you can think of. Almost every thing and everyone seems to say that sex has no emotional purpose and should be had with whoever, whenever. This is the ill effect of porn. Especially unavoidable, mass porn.

I agree that sex is everywhere in the media. Sex sells, plain and simple. Everyone wants to be desirable, sexy, lust and love-worthy, so sex sells. I'm not sure how you justify the belief that everyone seems to say that it has no emotional purpose and should be had with whomever, whenever. If it had no purpose and should be completely random and meaningless, then it wouldn't sell. It sells because it has a purpose (a variety of purposes, at that) and because people who buy into it are hoping that Their own personal sex will sell to someone. Maybe their spouse, their boyfriend or girlfriend, their lover, or a stranger they meet out somewhere. No one wants to be undesirable.

Also, you say that this is the effect of porn, unavoidable mass porn. So the sexed-up advertisements that show a woman in the shower with some body soap or shampoo or thta show Paris Hilton eating a Hardees burger are porn? Examples of mass porn? I think our opinions of what pornography is obviously differ quite a bit.

Quote by: Flip Jackson And while I have other reasons for thinking we treat sex too lightly, I do feel it is sacred. It is kind of tied with my view of marraige, with I consider sacred also. Sex has so many other pieces to it than just satisfying a physical need. It allows for an intimacy and emotional connection with someone you are close to. While I agree sex is natural, I consider humans above animals. Having sex merely to procreate is what animals do. There is a lot more involved when humans have sex. This is what makes it detrimental to people and society.

Some individuals feel as you do, that sex is sacred (whether for religious reasons or not) and belongs within the institution of marriage. I feel that it would be fair to say that the majority of individuals do not reserve sex as a sacred act for their someday-spouse. It's a charming romantic notion, like right up there with the soulmate you'd be having that sacred sex with. In reality, however, lots of people are having lots of sex, for lots of reasons. Not just to satisfy a physical need. Perhaps it's to satisfy an emotional need. Maybe it's exercise. Maybe sex is their Tuesday morning suburbian ritual. Maybe it's purely about desire. Lust and Want. There's nothing wrong with lust, it's necessary for the sustainment of our species.

"This is what makes it detrimental to people and society." I am assuming you are referring to porn, not to sex. ??? And if you Are refering to porn, then please explain just exactly HOW it is detrimental to society. What does porn DO that makes it detrimental?

Humans can't be "better" than animals - we are animals, we're mammals. We're a little higher on the food chain, that's all, because our brains function differently and quite well compared to other animals. BTW, Dolphins also have sex simply out of lust and the desire for the pleasureable feelings they can receive - not necessarily to procreate.

Quote by: Flip Jackson When I say commonplace and dirty, I mean we show no respect for the act anymore. It is done by people who don't know each other, but want to slick their lusts. There is no requirement but being human sometimes. Porn seems to encourage sex with anyone just to quench your sexual appetite. This is a problem. We can't act as if sex doesn't have emotional and phychological effects. If there was nothing beyond the physical act, then why do affairs cause so many problems? Why is it worse than shaking someone's hand? Because there are emotional ties involved. Another human's feelings are at stake. Sex has powerful effects on the participants, and we should respect that power more than we do.

Why should we show respect to the act? We should be thankful that someone thought of it, somewhere way back in the beginning of our kind, because it can be highly pleasurable. But it isn't an entity deserving of respect. It's an act, an activity, a part of nature, of human nature, and of life.
And so what if two people don't know eachother and are feeling randy and want to give it a go? Sex doesn't Always have to be about an emotional commitment to one another. It can be about an understanding that a mutual need and/or desire is present, and you can go somewhere and very easily satisfy that need/desire, and as long as you take proper precautions, everyone walks away unscathed, and indeed, feeling much better than before they had their go-round.

"Porn seems to encourage sex with anyone just to quench your sexual appetite. This is a problem."
Porn isn't a mind-control device encouraging individuals to start having sex with people As Seen On TV. Porn is an erotic tool, something to get you turned on and juiced up, something you might enjoy when the wife's at work and you're lonely or you're single and you'd like a little visual stimulation along with your solo masturbation. That said, that porn is NOT encouraging sex, it's simply a venue for sex to be viewed by those already interested in Having sex (and in that state, you don't really need any encouragement) - That said, Why is quenching your sexual appetite a problem? Surely you don't believe that we should deny ourselves something that our body is saying it wants?

Sex CAN have emotional and psychological effects, but it doesn't have to. Some married couples swing (i.e., wife-swap) and the sex is purely about fun, friendship, physical fulfillment. Then the spouses swap back and get to go home and tell eachother all about it, which usually leads to more sex.

Affairs cause problems because they're affairs. They're infidelities. They're lies and broken trust. The affair is 9.9 times out of 10 not about sex at all, although sex is likely to be present. It's about a FEELING that one spouse or the other isn't getting from their spouse. A feeling of fulfillment, of being needed, of being wanted, of being good enough - you name it. But sex and sex alone is RARELY the factor that will cause a spouse to cheat. And in those instances where sex WAS the only factor, what does that have to do with pornography?

[YourTokah]

Flip, you should get a gold star - you know how guys hate to wear condoms, right? And there you are, spelling it CONDEMN - Main Entry: con·demn
Pronunciation: k&n-'dem
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French condemner, from Latin condemnare, from com- + damnare to condemn -- more at DAMN
1 : to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation
2 a : to pronounce guilty : CONVICT b : SENTENCE, DOOM
3 : to adjudge unfit for use or consumption
4 : to declare convertible to public use under the right of eminent domain

I particularly like def. 4 - suddenly mr. protected has been converted to use for the public! :)

[Flip Jackson]

How embarrasing. I apologize for my spelling error. I think I was in a bit of a mind set. I know what a condom is and what it means to condemn. I did not intentionally switch the two, although it would have been a rather clever little device.

Sorry about that. I try to correct such errors, but some slide by.

[Flip Jackson]

Sorry, it is almost midnight, and I had a long day at work. I intend to continue this discussion, but it may take a day or two. I'm a busy man. Lots to do.

I will say a couple things as briefly as I can. I feel that sex isn't recognized for its emotional because so many people seem too focused on what they get out of it, and not how it affects both parties. If we saw the powerful effect it usually has, we wouldn't throw it around so carelessly.

I say we should respect sex because of the power it holds. It creates life. It has a greater effect on people than anything I can think of. I think we should respect or reverence anything that has such power.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Flip Jackson I will clarify my statements a little as I realized I didn't make them very clear. When I said "I don't think we should have it all over the place," I meant the way it streams through every brance of the media known to man whether we like it or not. I did not mean sex itself, but the way we treat sex as a toy in magazines, television shows, commercials, billboards, movies, games, and whatever other outlet you can think of. Almost every thing and everyone seems to say that sex has no emotional purpose and should be had with whoever, whenever. This is the ill effect of porn. Especially unavoidable, mass porn. And while I have other reasons for thinking we treat sex too lightly, I do feel it is sacred. It is kind of tied with my view of marraige, with I consider sacred also. Sex has so many other pieces to it than just satisfying a physical need. It allows for an intimacy and emotional connection with someone you are close to. While I agree sex is natural, I consider humans above animals. Having sex merely to procreate is what animals do. There is a lot more involved when humans have sex. This is what makes it detrimental to people and society. If you are married, I don't really care what you do with your partner. Not really my business. When I say commonplace and dirty, I mean we show no respect for the act anymore. It is done by people who don't know each other, but want to slick their lusts. There is no requirement but being human sometimes. Porn seems to encourage sex with anyone just to quench your sexual appetite. This is a problem. We can't act as if sex doesn't have emotional and phychological effects. If there was nothing beyond the physical act, then why do affairs cause so many problems? Why is it worse than shaking someone's hand? Because there are emotional ties involved. Another human's feelings are at stake. Sex has powerful effects on the participants, and we should respect that power more than we do. I do not mean to condemn or insult anyone, but I am giving my view on what this stuff does.

What makes it so sacred. I was outside the other day and say two dragonflies mating. What's so sacred about it? Nonsense. Let me also add that I swear dragonflies have sex like 4 times a day or something.

It is healthy for men to masturbate a few times a week. Why not have sex? Just don't be an idiot and wear a condom and if it breaks or doesn't work than that's too bad. The chances of that happening are slimmer than you getting into a drunk driving accident. Humans are not above animals and that is dumb that you think so. You might as well say blacks are better than whites or vice versa. We're all creatures on Earth and we all have the same rights.

No, humans having sex and animals having sex is no difference. So we do it for fun. Who cares? It's not like brain cells are destroyed or you get unhealthy. In fact, it's perfectly healthy. If sex has a powerful impact on you, then don't be a moron and have sex then cry about it later. That's too bad you got drunk and had sex with a guy. Maybe you'll think where you are next time you get drunk. But for the majority of people who really don't give a shit who their partner is and are out to enjoy life, then I say go ahead. You only live once.