Threat of Islam?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia They have - us. By our creation. We could bring about the very thing we want least - a United Arab world. We're so smart :rolleyes:

Actually we want that. If the Arab world united, they would need some type of government to control the citizens. Dictatorship? Nope, or else one of the religius sects would need to agree on an impartial dictator. That one would never fly. Maybe a mix of religions together and a voting system. Bingo. That's exactly what we want Mia.

[Mia]

You are so out of touch. A united Arab world, with all their oil money, and us being so afraid of them taking over the world, is the LAST thing we want and the reason behind our constant meddling there.

We've destabilized Iraq and Lebanon, Syria is next....if we keep them fighting amongst themselves, or to hold their countires together, they can't ever unite.

[Mia]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Actually we want that. If the Arab world united, they would need some type of government to control the citizens. Dictatorship? Nope, or else one of the religius sects would need to agree on an impartial dictator. That one would never fly. Maybe a mix of religions together and a voting system. Bingo. That's exactly what we want Mia.

*sigh* please do some reading on the religion. Islamic nations can never have our version of democracy. It is INHERENT to the Islamic religion that society reflect it's values. How do you do that when you have a mix? You can't.

Therefore, the majority in every country would vote for their guy and oppress the minorities. Or have a coup every ten minutes. Or fall into never-ending civil war.

It takes dictators over there - there is no other way right now.

We didn't help matters by carving them up so stupidly. Like the Kurds being split among 4 countries - how is that supposed to work?

We're dealing with Tribal mentality. They still have family fueds. You think they're going to come together and Shii's are going to give up sacred religious tenents to appease Sunni's and visa versa?

The only way that happens is by force.

If we want demcracy so bad, why are we picking on the only ME nation working toward it and making good progress?

I asked you to tell me if you know anything about Syria.

You dodge all the real debateable issues and default to rhetoric.

When you're ready to really deabte, let me know. Otherwise, your talking with no walking is boring me now.

Methinks you are the sniffling child upset that he can't back up his assertions, and whines when disagreed with.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia You are so out of touch. A united Arab world, with all their oil money, and us being so afraid of them taking over the world, is the LAST thing we want and the reason behind our constant meddling there. We've destabilized Iraq and Lebanon, Syria is next....if we keep them fighting amongst themselves, or to hold their countires together, they can't ever unite.

Oh, so you would rather favor oil money over the death of thousands every year over religious war? Some theist you are.

Haha, we're not afraid of them taking over the war. We are so much more powerful technologically and we outnumber them with our allies. That is why the fight right now is over there on their home fronts.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia *sigh* please do some reading on the religion. Islamic nations can never have our version of democracy. It is INHERENT to the Islamic religion that society reflect it's values. How do you do that when you have a mix? You can't. Therefore, the majority in every country would vote for their guy and oppress the minorities. End of story. It takes dictators over there - there is no other way right now. We didn't help matters by carving them up so stupidly. Like the Kurds being split among 4 countries - how is that supposed to work? We're dealing with Tribal mentality. They still have family fueds. You think they're going to come together and Shii's are going to give up sacred religious tenents to appease Sunni's and visa versa? The only way that happens is by force. If we want demcracy so bad, why are we picking on the only ME nation working toward it and making good progress? I asked you to tell me if you know anything about Syria. You dodge all the real debateable issues and default to rhetoric. When you're ready to really deabte, let me know. Otherwise, your talking with no walking is boring me now.

We're talking hypothetically, and if we're talking about uniting, the only way they will do that is with some level of a democracy, I don't care how little it is. They won't unite under a dictator, duh.

What am I dodging again? Syria? I know the Syrians are not much of a problem to us other than the fact that they keep harboring terrorists and are forcing us to look them up ourselves within their country. We rarely find them, since they are usually dining in Syrian palaces forbidden to us. When we did, the known terrorist was deported and he went to Saudi Arabia, only "friend" of ours.

Their economy sucks and they depend on oil from Iraq. They recieve arms from Iran. There economy is pretty dependent on other foreign nations. They have forces in Lebanon fighting them and haven't yet recognized them as a nation. It has a controlled economy and an authoritarian political rule. The Assad family has well known connections to terrorists from Iran and Saudi Arabia and someone needs to overthrow them. It would be different if he actually let people leave his country.

What do you know about Syria?

[Mia]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 What do you know about Syria?

A lot.

Question: What religious orientation is the President, and how do his views and those of fundamentalists align?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia A lot. Question: What religious orientation is the President, and how do his views and those of fundamentalists align?

Hmm deeper than I need, but Bashar Assad is the leader of his Baathist Party, which is just like the Nazi party, and they advocate socialism and secular Arabism. So far, he claims to reform Syria economically and claims to want peace with Israel, but his actions show the opposites. I suppose his fundamentalists want to unite the Middle East somehow, whether or not he agrees, I'm not sure.

[Mia]

Well, I think you should be sure before shooting your mouth off! I didn't ask you his POLITICAL orientation - I asked you his RELIGIOUS one. It is key in understanding why your statements about that nation couldn't be further of the mark.

I submit that if you don't even bother to see the differences betweent the Islamic nations, and the people who inhabit them, your quest for 'solutions' is nothing more than just useless babble.

There are several good books on the topic: www.amazon.com

[RickSp]

Quote by: Mia Well, I think you should be sure before shooting your mouth off! I didn't ask you his POLITICAL orientation - I asked you his RELIGIOUS one. It is key in understanding why your statements about that nation couldn't be further of the mark. I submit that if you don't even bother to see the differences betweent the Islamic nations, and the people who inhabit them, your quest for 'solutions' is nothing more than just useless babble. There are several good books on the topic: www.amazon.com

Mia, SocFreak doesn't make any such distinctions. His sort always like simple "solutions", final, or otherwise. All Muslims are alike to him. He wouldn't know an Alawite if one came up and bit him in the ass. And I doubt that he cares.

[Mia]

Quote by: RickSp Mia, SocFreak doesn't make any such distinctions. His sort always like simple "solutions", final, or otherwise. All Muslims are alike to him. He wouldn't know an Alawite if one came up and bit him in the ass. And I doubt that he cares.

So you understand why Syria is the last nation on earth who would harbor fundamentalist terrorists?

Lol...they kill them. You can go to jail there for TALKING to one. You can be arrested upon your arrival in Syria for talking to one in France or the US!

99.9% of the US is ignorant of this. Syria a terrorist nation, my butt!!

[Mia]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 We are so much more powerful technologically and we outnumber them with our allies

But that would no longer be the case if they united, now would it, brainiac? That's why we don't want them to, and consistently work to keep it from happening.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia So you understand why Syria is the last nation on earth who would harbor fundamentalist terrorists? Lol...they kill them. You can go to jail there for TALKING to one. You can be arrested upon your arrival in Syria for talking to one in France or the US! 99.9% of the US is ignorant of this. Syria a terrorist nation, my butt!!

Where is the evidence of these statements? What terrorists have they killed?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia But that would no longer be the case if they united, now would it, brainiac? That's why we don't want them to, and consistently work to keep it from happening.

Even if they did unite, we would kick their ass. We're that good.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: RickSp Mia, SocFreak doesn't make any such distinctions. His sort always like simple "solutions", final, or otherwise. All Muslims are alike to him. He wouldn't know an Alawite if one came up and bit him in the ass. And I doubt that he cares.

Actually I really don't give a crap. Religion sucks. All I know is that over the past few years, people shouting "praise Allah" have been blowing other people up all over the world. Am I asking to destroy Islam? No. Am I asking to deport all Muslims? No. I want to stop the violence, that's all. Why you are pushing everyone into thinking I hate Islam is beyond me. Maybe your just a bully, I don't know.

[Mia]

I'm not pushing anything - people don't follow my take on things - they are responding to you based on what you write.

If you really want to stop the violence, then read up on all the root causes, find out how we got to where we are now, and starting thinking about and discussing how to make it better.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia I'm not pushing anything - people don't follow my take on things - they are responding to you based on what you write. If you really want to stop the violence, then read up on all the root causes, find out how we got to where we are now, and starting thinking about and discussing how to make it better.

Sounds like your more interested in policing and ranting, yet you do no good to helping out our world issues. No wonder people don't follow your take on things. They are more interested in fixing the problems of our world.

[Mia]

Yeah, I can see how much they like your method - you have so many good responses and have generated such a productive conversation :rolleyes:

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia Yeah, I can see how much they like your method - you have so many good responses and have generated such a productive conversation :rolleyes:

Half of the thread is you calling me a bigot and prejudiced anyways.

[Mia]

I suggested it before and I'm going to stick to it now. I'm not going to attempt 'debate' with you anymore.

[rmnunez]

Islam has some deficiencies in my opinion, but I'm not a Muslim. Many of the "deficiencies" I see in Islam are things many westerners with more enlightened or cosmopolitan views decry in Catholicism particularly; hierarchical structure, enforcement, orthodoxy.

A better organized Islam wouldn't have this problem with hot-headed imans mouthing-off radical sermons, they would be better trained and supervised and their uppermost elders more respected. Islam never experienced the enlightment, reformation and a protestant schism, these deprive them of a sense of proportion in balancing temporal and spiritual domains, any formal restraint on religious excesses or much tolerance for any variation.

A slew of advantages flow from the western experience; egalitarian societies with representative governments, freedom of expression, competitiveness, scientific enquiry and a strong sense of property. Islam was founded by their prophet Mohammed who was simultaneously their holiest man, governor and military commander. Christ preached humility, renounced the government's authority and never led an army, he preached turning the other cheek and loving one's enemy... Throughout Mohammed's lifetime he lead Muslims in a series of battles across the Arabian peninsula and Islam expanded this way by conquest. Christians had a period of expansion through conquest before the Reformation, they favoured missionary conversions rather than slaughtering the infidels after that. Christ chose a disciple to follow in his mission, Mohammed's followers chose among his biological successors and they've got problems with this since the succesors must also be as Mohammed; religious leaders, governors and military commanders.

Terrorism inspired in Islamic fundamentalism is a serious problem that endagers the whole planet. They need a scholarly body that has universal acceptance to be recognized as the only ones capable of licensing an iman. They need to develop a practice of synodal assemblies to address the religious concerns of Muslims in a general way, craft guidelines and endorse practices. They need to dissassociate themselves with politics comletely, censure any preaching that relates to the conduct of government, foreign policy or issues relating to international relations.