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Lou Minotti · Jun 24, 2005, 11:22 am

http://www.wboy.com/story.cfm?func=v...y&storyid=3538

Quote:

On Saturday morning 82-year old Alfred Jim Edwards reportedly urinated in Martins Ferry's City Park. Police say they questioned him about the urinating, and he started to walk away several times....and finally they say he resisted arrest. Police then used a taser on the man. Edwards' family says he has dementia and he was frightened and confused, but never combative. Martins Ferry Police Chief Barry Carpenter called the FBI in to investigate, and they say if they find there was excessive force or civil rights violations, the officer will face discipline.

What the heck is this country coming to?
http://www.filecabi.net/v.php?file=1117656456.wmv

PatrickHenry · Jun 24, 2005, 04:05 pm

A police state?

belverron · Jun 24, 2005, 04:09 pm

Whoever thought up the idea of tasers should be tased.

tinybear · Jun 24, 2005, 04:16 pm

What's a Taser? Is it something like one of those light sabres on Star Wars?

belverron · Jun 24, 2005, 04:28 pm

An electrocution gun, pretty much.

Dieval · Jun 24, 2005, 06:28 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

What's a Taser?

Taser = A trademark used for a high-voltage stun gun.
And for those interested -
Stun Gun = A weapon designed to stun or temporarily immobilize a victim, especially by delivering a high-voltage electric shock.(i.e. It's NON-LETHAL)

So Lou, should they just have let the man with dementia continue to wander around and urinate on things?

tman_ndsu08 · Jun 24, 2005, 07:10 pm

I think people get confused when they see the words "high voltage".

Did you know that a shock you get from a comb or a metal door knob is in the range of 10000+ volts?

Don't worry about volts. It's high wattage that you should worry about and only when it's used in long duration (IE kilowatt hours). Stun guns are very low on this scale.

belverron · Jun 24, 2005, 09:49 pm

But they have killed before, just so we're clear. At least that's my understanding.

Quote:

Quote by: Dieval

So Lou, should they just have let the man with dementia continue to wander around and urinate on things?

So, you believe that these police officers were incapable of managing an eighty-two year old man without a taser?

mr.perfecto · Jun 24, 2005, 11:19 pm

I doubt they would have had problems "managing" him, but it would have been worse to beat him with clubs, right?

fedfem · Jun 24, 2005, 11:55 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

I think people get confused when they see the words "high voltage".

Did you know that a shock you get from a comb or a metal door knob is in the range of 10000+ volts?

Don't worry about volts. It's high wattage that you should worry about and only when it's used in long duration (IE kilowatt hours). Stun guns are very low on this scale.

Tasers hurt...hurt a lot. One good thing is that police officers agree to be tased before they are issued tasers. Like anything else--guns, clubs, fists etc--it can be used inappropriately at times.

Dieval · Jun 25, 2005, 01:30 am

Quote:

Quote by: belverron

But they have killed before, just so we're clear.

What kills more people, guns or tasers? We don't have the perfect non-lethal weapon yet, so there's a chance of death with anything law enforcement uses - but some are considerably LESS lethal than others..

Quote:

Quote by: belverron

.So, you believe that these police officers were incapable of managing an eighty-two year old man without a taser?

What I'm getting at is that the cops would be persecuted for any action they take concerning the old man. Clubs, guns, hands, continue to let him urinate, etc, etc, etc...

PatrickHenry · Jun 25, 2005, 01:39 am

What about talking to him and discovering that he's suffering from senile dementia? Was he violent? At 82 whose butt was he gonna kick? Surely he couldn't piss forever, lol.

You taser an old person, he falls, gets hurt, then what?

Don't defend every cursed thing the cops do, Dieval.

belverron · Jun 25, 2005, 01:58 am

Quote:

Quote by: mr.perfecto

I doubt they would have had problems "managing" him, but it would have been worse to beat him with clubs, right?

So why couldn't they have just grabbed him and held him? Why should they have to hurt him at all? Why should you jump to the policemen's defense without thinking about it?

mr.perfecto · Jun 25, 2005, 02:35 am

Would you hit a police officer?

belverron · Jun 25, 2005, 02:47 am

Not under any normal circumstance. What does that have to do with anything?

mr.perfecto · Jun 25, 2005, 03:11 am

Just pointing out that reasonable people interact with the police with some recognition that they are police officers. If he was senile, he should not have been out in public without assistance.

PatrickHenry · Jun 25, 2005, 04:20 am

Agreed, perfecto. But the police aren't robots. They have the ability to see and grasp situations. A senile old man should be understood for his own condition. A taser is generally used in violent confrontations with powerful amped-up young toughs. The cops need to learn restraint. Senility is no excuse for a police attack with a taser.

mr.perfecto · Jun 25, 2005, 11:27 am

I don't think I'm being unfair here, if the police said "Here is a guy with mental problems, lets tazer him." I would see that as a serious problem and would want something done about it. But the bottom line is, DON"T ARGUE WITH A POLICE OFFICER! You make your case when you go before the judge.

belverron · Jun 25, 2005, 12:55 pm

Quote:

Quote by: mr.perfecto

DON"T ARGUE WITH A POLICE OFFICER! You make your case when you go before the judge.

Umm... I'm pretty sure we won't be given that opportunity. There's no reason we can't criticize police officers. They're just bureaucrats, and street-level ones at that. They're just as fallible as all the rest. We may not have all the details, but from what we know the police had no reason to react violently to an old man suffering from dementia. They could have easily restrained him without harm to either party. I guess they were afraid he'd wet himself on their freshly pressed uniforms.

mr.perfecto · Jun 25, 2005, 05:23 pm

Quote:

Quote by: belverron

Umm... I'm pretty sure we won't be given that opportunity. There's no reason we can't criticize police officers. They're just bureaucrats, and street-level ones at that. They're just as fallible as all the rest. We may not have all the details, but from what we know the police had no reason to react violently to an old man suffering from dementia. They could have easily restrained him without harm to either party. I guess they were afraid he'd wet himself on their freshly pressed uniforms.

Won't be given what opportunity?

Please note that I did not say DONT CRITICIZE the police. I said DON'T ARGUE with an officer.

Jun 24, 2005, 04:05 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,464	A police state? "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Jun 24, 2005, 04:09 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
belverron Beloved Truth-Dragon Location: Texas Posts: 1,305	Whoever thought up the idea of tasers should be tased. If only I could saith, so should I.

Jun 24, 2005, 04:28 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
belverron Beloved Truth-Dragon Location: Texas Posts: 1,305	An electrocution gun, pretty much. If only I could saith, so should I.

Jun 25, 2005, 01:39 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,464	What about talking to him and discovering that he's suffering from senile dementia? Was he violent? At 82 whose butt was he gonna kick? Surely he couldn't piss forever, lol. You taser an old person, he falls, gets hurt, then what? Don't defend every cursed thing the cops do, Dieval. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Jun 25, 2005, 02:47 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
belverron Beloved Truth-Dragon Location: Texas Posts: 1,305	Not under any normal circumstance. What does that have to do with anything? If only I could saith, so should I.

Jun 24, 2005, 04:16 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,336	What's a Taser? Is it something like one of those light sabres on Star Wars?

Jun 24, 2005, 07:10 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	I think people get confused when they see the words "high voltage". Did you know that a shock you get from a comb or a metal door knob is in the range of 10000+ volts? Don't worry about volts. It's high wattage that you should worry about and only when it's used in long duration (IE kilowatt hours). Stun guns are very low on this scale.

Jun 24, 2005, 11:19 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
mr.perfecto Igneous Magma Posts: 632	I doubt they would have had problems "managing" him, but it would have been worse to beat him with clubs, right?

Jun 25, 2005, 02:35 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
mr.perfecto Igneous Magma Posts: 632	Would you hit a police officer?

Jun 25, 2005, 03:11 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
mr.perfecto Igneous Magma Posts: 632	Just pointing out that reasonable people interact with the police with some recognition that they are police officers. If he was senile, he should not have been out in public without assistance.

Jun 25, 2005, 04:20 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,464	Agreed, perfecto. But the police aren't robots. They have the ability to see and grasp situations. A senile old man should be understood for his own condition. A taser is generally used in violent confrontations with powerful amped-up young toughs. The cops need to learn restraint. Senility is no excuse for a police attack with a taser. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Jun 25, 2005, 11:27 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
mr.perfecto Igneous Magma Posts: 632	I don't think I'm being unfair here, if the police said "Here is a guy with mental problems, lets tazer him." I would see that as a serious problem and would want something done about it. But the bottom line is, DON"T ARGUE WITH A POLICE OFFICER! You make your case when you go before the judge.