What is your view on race relations?

[castille]

Just curious, what's your view on races, racism, raciality, etc?

Doesn't matter what country you're from, or what race you are.

Conservatives have often been accused of being racist, or at least intolerant of foreigners. Do you fit into this mould, or do you disagree?

[mr.perfecto]

I don't have any problem at all with people living in the US for a while then returning home, or sending their pay home while they work here. I just believe that before a person enters the country they should be screened and they should be forbidden from taking too important a role in our society without integrating into it. No voting or driver's licenses, or any official recognition for illegals; no voting, military service, or majority corporate (especially media) ownership for foreign nationals.

[Bigkhan]

i had voted that there always welcome and that we could learn from each other. But I would like to add to that a little. I will welcome anyone from any country to come be a part of this great country of ours, If done legaly and your intentions are to be a productive AMERICAN citizan. learn the language, Get a job, and embrace this country.

[Waychel]

As long as they come here legally, I have no problem with them. What I hate is when they hop the border and pop out a new kid every few years so that they can leech off of every social welfare program imaginable. I also don't like how we are increasingly giving more and more jobs in farming and now construction work to people that aren't even American citizens.

[VXerick]

I voted for the last choice...... race is a false construct and should not be a concept.

I am accused of racism because I am outspoken against illegal immigration. It's not the who but the why and how they are coming here. But because most illegals are Mexicans and Hispanics, that sets up the idea in some people's minds that I am against Mexicans. I am against anyone who comes without the proper papers or anyone who comes on a visa and remains after it expires.

But since our government does little to nothing to discourage it, we're stuck with it.

[Logjam]

I believe that, in general, the Blacks community is MUCH more racist than is the White community. Why? Because the leadership of the Blacks says nothing against racism toward Whites. To many Blacks racism toward Whites is justifiable. Well, it isn't.

How do I know this? It's because I lived in the middle of a Black community for 12 years. You want to hear racist talk? Listen to what the Black kids say in high school. I could say the same for Hispanics.

I have a nephew who speaks perfect Spanish (schooled in a Spanish immersion program). He said to me that if you could hear what the Mexicans are saying about Whites (mostly about White women) that you'd be shocked and not tend to act so kindly toward Mexicans. There aren't many Mexican political leaders who are teaching their followers to accept Whites either.

In summary, I believe there's racism in this country, but largely not in the White community.

[James]

Quote by: Logjam I believe that, in general, the Blacks community is MUCH more racist than is the White community. Why? Because the leadership of the Blacks says nothing against racism toward Whites. To many Blacks racism toward Whites is justifiable. Well, it isn't. How do I know this? It's because I lived in the middle of a Black community for 12 years. You want to hear racist talk? Listen to what the Black kids say in high school. I could say the same for Hispanics. I have a nephew who speaks perfect Spanish (schooled in a Spanish immersion program). He said to me that if you could hear what the Mexicans are saying about Whites (mostly about White women) that you'd be shocked and not tend to act so kindly toward Mexicans. There aren't many Mexican political leaders who are teaching their followers to accept Whites either. In summary, I believe there's racism in this country, but largely not in the White community.

AMEN!!!

Fifty years ago racism against minorities was an issue. But the tables have turned!
Most minorities think that they can say and do whatever they want just because their ancestors were discriminated against.

And corporations and universities need to realize this when they are hiring and accepting students.

If you want to call me a racist, get in line.

[rcne]

It is human nature to be racist. Face it we all are, that includes all races and all nations. I am, but I also have friends who are different from me who are good citizens of this country.

Some rely on race as an excuse for all their problems. Others rely on themselves.

We have a great many ethnic communities who embrace this country and its values. Race has nothing to do with being an American.

[castille]

Isn't it interesting how we try to combat racism by seperating races even more? In China, we do something similar to the US - the government gives increased welfare to minority groups (ie. Tibetians and Uighirs get extra welfare money and can have more than 1 child).

The problem I find is that this increases the racism, because it essentially tells minority groups, "You're different from us". I would rather see all races treated equally, rather than this "reverse racism" that is becoming popular.


Probably the biggest problem that I have with racism (perhaps extending into my dislike of socialism) is the idea that you can label someone according to elements they cannot control. I've always believed in individual achievement, and for someone to be rejected because they were born into a particular race, is akin to rejecting someone on the basis of their eye colour.

"Brown-hair freak, get outta this land!"

[Doug]

Racism was the great sin of the old conservative movement, or, rather, indifference to racial oppressions. But it has pretty well been driven out now. It remains a handy stick for lefties to beat others with, if they can, but mainly to beat themselves with.

There is nothing whatsoever racist about wanting to control one's own borders. If Democrats have an ounce of strategic sense, they will make this a major issue in the next elections.

Doug

[Logjam]

Quote by: castille Just curious, what's your view on races, racism, raciality, etc? Doesn't matter what country you're from, or what race you are. Conservatives have often been accused of being racist, or at least intolerant of foreigners. Do you fit into this mould, or do you disagree?

If one lives in a ghetto one gleens mounds of insight into the non-white community. I have lived in the middle of a ghetto of sorts. The community was made of about 40% Blacks, 40% Philippinos and the rest White. I was one of the White ones. I lived in this small city for 12 years (pop. 80,000).

I have also lived in many places in the US and abroad. I lived for several years where there were very few Whites. I do not believe that there is any real difference between people of different races. We are ALL exactly alike....skin color means nothing.

That being said, there IS a BIG difference between living in a mostly white community and living in a predominately black community. You are naive if you don't understand this very real fact. The difference has nothing to do with race, but everything to do with culture. Black culture in the US today is in free fall. When I lived in the black community I was burglarized six times. I had five friends who were raped and an equal number who were murdered. Gunfire was commonplace. If a kid left his bike on his front lawn IT WOULD BE STOLEN.

A friend of mine taught in a local middle school. She reported that 89% of the kids in her school were receiving AFDC. That means 89% of the kids lived with a single mom. Very few blacks marry. I was the recipient of the "hate stare" constantly. I had a white friend who was shot while pumping gas into his tank. A black guy saw a white guy and took a pot shot at him.

Drugs and prostitution were everywhere. We'd see hookers standing around in broad daylight. Not all were black.

Eventually I moved into a white community. It was only 13 miles away. The change was dramatic.

So, while I do not believe in racism, and I'm convinced that all people are alike and equal, their cultures certainly are not. The reasons why the black community is in such a bad state of repair are sometimes obvious, sometimes not. But it needs to be recognized and fixed.

[mr.perfecto]

Quote by: Logjam I believe that, in general, the Blacks community is MUCH more racist than is the White community.

As a Black man, I have to say this is an exaggeration. The only major difference between white racism and black racism is the latter is mostly expressed through "sympathy" and making "allowances" and the former as a method of justifying rebelling against the authorities.

In either case, it all comes back to our tendency to intuitively know things without ever conciously integrating them. But its late, and I have to go. More later.

[Logjam]

Quote by: James AMEN!!! Fifty years ago racism against minorities was an issue. But the tables have turned! Most minorities think that they can say and do whatever they want just because their ancestors were discriminated against.

Blacks' ancestors weren't discriminated against. They were selected to be slaves. Furthermore from the current black persons viewpoint the fact that their ancestors were enslaved was the best thing that could have happened to them. If their ancestors had not been made slaves and they had remained in Africa, they would very likely be slaves today, because slavery is still very popular in modern day Africa. Furthermore, if their ancestors had not been slaves American Blacks would be livng in Africa today. They would have a much better chance of suffering starvation or being victimized by mass murder than they have here.

So, instead of demanding reparations for their ancestors' labors, in gratitude American blacks should pay back their former owners families for the expenses they spent to purchase their great great great grandparents. This is, after all only fare, since those old slave owners were denied the labors of their slaves and were not repaid for their value after the Emansipation Proclaimation became law.

If the American Blacks hesitate to make these reparation payments they should go back to Africa and live their for a year or so. Then as they are boarding the aircraft to come back, they can tell us how horrible it was that their ancestors were sold into slavery.

Isn't this a great idea!

[Logjam]

Quote by: mr.perfecto As a Black man, I have to say this is an exaggeration.

How can you say this? There are no White Americans of any note that are preaching racism. There are no whites of any note who believe that racial differences are important, or meaningful.

However, the Black leadership is constantly screaming that whites are racists. The Black Muslims preach against the "White Devil". Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are constantly shouting to their black audience that the reason blacks aren't successful is the organized racism of White America. While this was true in the past it isn't now.

The Black community still believes that black students who are successful in schools are "acting white" (Yes, I know there are exceptions.)

If you were a white person living in a black community (as I did) you would not believe how many times you are victimized by black racism. The "hate stare" is commonplace. Blacks used to throw rocks at my car while shouting, "Honkey". Blacks would parade in gangs shouting racist catcalls at while women. Racism, you better believe it. Has it changed? I doubt it.

When are Black Americans going to get the word that they are Americans just like anyone else. They need to get over their pasts and get with the program!

I'm sick and tired of racism in this country and I'm sick and tired of being called a racist by racist blacks.

[mr.perfecto]

Quote by: Logjam How can you say this?

I didn't say you were completely, one hundred percent wrong, I said it was an exaggeration. Now, I'm not calling you a racist, but I do see a double standard here.

When I lived in Alabama, I knew--and it was just one of those things you have to accept--that there were some areas where Blacks were not welcome. There were usually no explicit hazard warning signs and never any laws on the books spelling out the boundaries, but everyone, white or black, knew where they were.

So what does that have to do with the double standard I was talking about? Would it be unfair of me to relate stories to you about that place as if all white people lived there or thought like them, but were adept at hiding it? Or the actions of school students (although I must say I've never observed any instance of a high-achiever being labeled as "acting white" and I've only been out of high school four years.) as reflective of anything other than the typical childishness we would find in any sandbox in the country? Or suggesting that the actions of a group of men harassing a woman as being racially motivated?

The issue with race relations in the US has always been the double standard that goes something like, "Us Whites police and maintain order in our communities, why can't the Blacks do the same in their own?" What is ignored, however, is that the two communities are actually one. The only way for Blacks to police their communities, is for them to pressure the authorities to do so because there aren't separate authorities and laws for each race. The "White Authorities" have always had legal sovereignty over both. The authorities have a moral obligation to set standards of conduct for both and to enforce them with equal fairness.

As far as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, they don't represent everyone. But even if they did, it goes back to what I was saying about pressuring the authorities. I am not saying that those two are entirely correct, what I am saying is that when there are deviations from the intended order of society, it is the responsibility of the authorities to act to find the problem and make sure it gets fixed. Whatever particular cause the Jacksons and Sharptons attribute the problem to or steps they recommend towards fixing it, they are right in calling for the government to address the issue. Put another way, if your child is failing in school, is that failure directly your fault? Not usually, but don't you as a parent have a responsibility to act to correct it? If you didn't, would it not serve as an indicator of negligence or of bias against the child?

In a society that grants every adult member the right to vote, where most of the people get their information in the form of 7 sec news bites, it is often necessary to simplify the issue so that it does not seem as complex in people's minds as it really is. This, of course, provides fertile ground for class warfare rhetoric and other forms of demagoguery. The charges of racism stick in many peoples minds (even white people's minds) because once it gets decided that the AS and JJ type theories are ridiculous, the authorities ignore the problem instead of addressing it.

[Logjam]

Quote by: mr.perfecto I didn't say you were completely, one hundred percent wrong, I said it was an exaggeration. Now, I'm not calling you a racist, but I do see a double standard here. When I lived in Alabama, I knew--and it was just one of those things you have to accept--that there were some areas where Blacks were not welcome. There were usually no explicit hazard warning signs and never any laws on the books spelling out the boundaries, but everyone, white or black, knew where they were. So what does that have to do with the double standard I was talking about? Would it be unfair of me to relate stories to you about that place as if all white people lived there or thought like them, but were adept at hiding it? Or the actions of school students (although I must say I've never observed any instance of a high-achiever being labeled as "acting white" and I've only been out of high school four years.) as reflective of anything other than the typical childishness we would find in any sandbox in the country? Or suggesting that the actions of a group of men harassing a woman as being racially motivated? The issue with race relations in the US has always been the double standard that goes something like, "Us Whites police and maintain order in our communities, why can't the Blacks do the same in their own?" What is ignored, however, is that the two communities are actually one. The only way for Blacks to police their communities, is for them to pressure the authorities to do so because there aren't separate authorities and laws for each race. The "White Authorities" have always had legal sovereignty over both. The authorities have a moral obligation to set standards of conduct for both and to enforce them with equal fairness. As far as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, they don't represent everyone. But even if they did, it goes back to what I was saying about pressuring the authorities. I am not saying that those two are entirely correct, what I am saying is that when there are deviations from the intended order of society, it is the responsibility of the authorities to act to find the problem and make sure it gets fixed. Whatever particular cause the Jacksons and Sharptons attribute the problem to or steps they recommend towards fixing it, they are right in calling for the government to address the issue. Put another way, if your child is failing in school, is that failure directly your fault? Not usually, but don't you as a parent have a responsibility to act to correct it? If you didn't, would it not serve as an indicator of negligence or of bias against the child? In a society that grants every adult member the right to vote, where most of the people get their information in the form of 7 sec news bites, it is often necessary to simplify the issue so that it does not seem as complex in people's minds as it really is. This, of course, provides fertile ground for class warfare rhetoric and other forms of demagoguery. The charges of racism stick in many peoples minds (even white people's minds) because once it gets decided that the AS and JJ type theories are ridiculous, the authorities ignore the problem instead of addressing it.

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful response.

I lived in Meridian, Mississippi in 1968 through 1970. That wasn't long after the Freedom Fighters went south in the buses. I watched blacks being savaged by very racist whites. I also felt very sorry for black citizens. I saw blacks drinking from the lousy black only drinking fountains. I never once saw a black person in the lower seats in a movie theatre. They always went into the balcony (nigger heaven). I watched blacks step off of the sidewalk as they approached me on the sidewalk. I saw black people step back behind me if I came up behind them in a line at the Piggly Wiggly. (I could not stop them, they simply said, "You don't understand".)

So, I've seen the racism in the old South. I didn't like it then and I don't like racism now. BTW: a great many souterners didn't like it either and many encouraged the freedom fighters to come south.
Today, while there may be racism in the South it's nothing like it used to be.

I also saw how much love there was between many blacks and whites in the South. My girlfriend was raised by a black mammy and they loved one another dearly.

The most radical racism that I've experienced in the last 30 years was that I experienced being directed towards me by Northern blacks. It was almost as hateful as was the white racism I saw in Mississippi 35 years ago.

I believe that in the white community today racism is very unpopular. I also believe that it's much more popular with blacks. However, I will agree that many blacks understand and eschew racism as well.

History aside; racism is terrible and it should not be tolerated anyplace in the United States. Maybe we could start by abolishing the Black Muslim church. If you have trouble agreeing with me just spend a half hour listening to Louis Farakein (sp?). You want to see hate? Go to a black Muslim service. I wish you would, because I'd like to see if they have softened their rhetoric. I can't go to one you see; I'm white.

[mr.perfecto]

Truth be told, my negative opinion of Islam has more to do with my personal experiences with Black Muslims (in my own family at that) than my experiences with other groups within the religion.

And thanks for sharing your experiences in the civil rights era. I'm only 22 so I haven't really ever experienced things like that myself. Just hearing about them seems unreal. My parents and grandparents had many white friends and when I was growing up, so my experience with Whites was generally positive. Its sad that some people don't get that positive experience--most of the people I knew growing up that saw all Whites as oppressors (the ones that aren't dead) had to spend time in family court/prision before they could find Christ and give up that view.

[Logjam]

Quote by: mr.perfecto Truth be told, my negative opinion of Islam has more to do with my personal experiences with Black Muslims (in my own family at that) than my experiences with other groups within the religion. And thanks for sharing your experiences in the civil rights era. I'm only 22 so I haven't really ever experienced things like that myself. Just hearing about them seems unreal. My parents and grandparents had many white friends and when I was growing up, so my experience with Whites was generally positive. Its sad that some people don't get that positive experience--most of the people I knew growing up that saw all Whites as oppressors (the ones that aren't dead) had to spend time in family court/prision before they could find Christ and give up that view.

You are welcome.

It was amazing experiencing the black/white relationship in Mississippi in the late 60's. I lived in Meridian which was a hot bed of white racism. While racial descrimination was against the law (Civil Rights Act of 1964 applied.) it really hadn't taken effect. I think it has now....mostly. When I was living in Mississippi they still had the black only water fountains, but the "black only" signes had been removed, but I NEVER saw a black person drinking from the "whites only" fountain. Actually some of the fountains that were made of cement still had the "blacks only" sign because it was fixed in the concrete. No one seemed to care; black or white.

In restaurants they had three bathrooms. One for women, one for men and one for blacks. So black men and women had to share one. I never once saw a black person go into one of the white only bathrooms, even though it was legal to do so.

Blacks were expected to avert their eyes when walking down the street, and many did. I always felt uncomfortable when they stepped off of the sidewalk to allow me to pass. You could not stop them from doing that, and if you tried they'd get pissed at you. You see, my attempts to be polite were putting them in jepardy.

However, there was a subcurrent of genuine affection between blacks and whites. I know it seems strange to you, but it was there and it still is. Blacks seemed to take care of white. Whites relied upon blacks to take care of them. Black women took white children under their wings. And a great many whites in Mississippi hated the violent racism that dwelled in some white groups. In Meridan, Miss the KKK was popular among the rednecks. The Roberts (or Rogers?) family were the big KKKers. I recall driving by the Grand Klegals (or whatever they called the leader's) house. It was surrounded by a chicken wire fense with razor wire along the top. It was lit with bright lights and dobermans roamed the enclosure.

Today, I find racial relations between white and blacks to be much more congenial in the South than they are in the North. As a white man one seldom experiences the "hate stare" in the South,( Some parts of New Orleans was an exception for me.) but in many places in the North it's the rule. Just observe how black people treat white people in Oakland, LA, Watts or Vallejo, California.

I found your comments about the Black Muslim church insightful. I think that you observed their organizational racism. Not that there aren't white racists groups too, but I think the ones that we have are marginalized. Seems to be that black racists groups revell in their racism.

Interesting generation gap between you and I. You are 22, and I'm 60. You are just getting on the train that I'm getting off of. I believe that intellegent, clear thinking, educated black Americans have a wonderful opportunity in the US today. You will therefore probably live a long, happy, and successful life.

P.S.....can you give more examples of what you've observed in the Black Muslim church? I'm curious.

[mr.perfecto]

I will if I stop dating liberal women. :(

My experiences were mostly with the children/young adults, but the adults say some pretty outlandish things. Probably things you've already heard about, the hidden racism that exists all around us, the Jewish conspiracy, making excuse for assualts against whites.

[Logjam]

Quote by: mr.perfecto I will if I stop dating liberal women. :( My experiences were mostly with the children/young adults, but the adults say some pretty outlandish things. Probably things you've already heard about, the hidden racism that exists all around us, the Jewish conspiracy, making excuse for assualts against whites.

I find it interesting that left wing blacks spew hatred for the Jews, but the jews still support them by in their left wing leanings. I've heard blacks say terrible things against the jews, but I don't near nearly as much hatred going the other way. I wouldn't be surprised however, if some jews were saying some pretty iffy things about blacks.

The Golden Age of the Black Man in the US was in the 1920's wasn't it? That was when Harlem was on a roll. Black society while discriminated against was strong. The family unit was strong. Black pride was strong. (Except in Mississippi and maybe Alabama where an "uppity" black might find himself hanging from a tree.)

I think it's sad what has happened to the Black community in the US, and I don't blame racism for most of it. Maybe none. Black leaders, it seems to me, are jamming the white racism/hate down the throats of the average Black and many of them, I think, believe it.

I wonder, often times, what it's like to be Black in American. I met a gent once, who wrote a book entitled "Black Like Me". It's a famous book, maybe you've read it. This guy....Gibson, I think that was his name, went into the South and then died his skin brown. He then wrote about the experience, a very moving book.

As for dating liberal chicks. Don't fret, as they age they become more conservative; unless they are beyond hope. If you find one that's beyond hope then select another.

Can you relate to me if you experience white racism, and what form it takes?

Certainly has been nice talking with you.