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mr.perfecto · Jun 16, 2005, 04:14 am

Libertarians, Liberals, Communists and Conservatives all agree on at least one thing. America is d00med.

For liberals, its the gulag-state and imperial wars, for libertarians its all that plus our evil banking system and our "welfare state." For communists its our oppressive system of private property that condones the exploitation of the laborer. And for conservatives, its the abandoning of the moral framework that a society needs to support and defend itself.

I just wanted to see how people felt about this simplelistic analysis.

Morgan_Freeman · Jun 16, 2005, 04:21 am

America may be doomed, but the Republic of Cascadia has a bright future.
http://zapatopi.net/cascadia.html

Agent007 · Jun 16, 2005, 06:13 am

I do not believe that they all think America is absolutely doomed; they may just think that America is doomed unless their respective ideology takes over. That fact explains why there is such a struggle for political power in the country.

Thunder Wave · Jun 16, 2005, 12:09 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman

America may be doomed, but the Republic of Cascadia has a bright future.
http://zapatopi.net/cascadia.html

Awesome! But the site seems to be a hoax of some sort. Lord Kelvin?

Is this a joke? I know the NW has wanted to separate for some time now. What is your take on all this?

Agent007 · Jun 16, 2005, 12:13 pm

I think it is a joke, especially concerning the Sasquatch Militia.

Thunder Wave · Jun 16, 2005, 12:20 pm

Oh yes. I saw that just now. That's so hilarious. ハハハハハハハ

mr.perfecto · Jun 16, 2005, 03:57 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Agent007

I do not believe that they all think America is absolutely doomed; they may just think that America is doomed unless their respective ideology takes over. That fact explains why there is such a struggle for political power in the country.

I agree with you to an extent, maybe doomed is too strong a word, but since all sides are demanding greater donations and activism from their supporters by claiming they are losing the fight. What I'm getting at is, are we better off today than we were 10, 20, 30, or more years ago?

Since all sides can't be losing simultaneously and since all sides claim the loss of public support as a sign the country is in decline, are we really in decline, or have we fooled ourselves in the interest of short-term politics?

tman_ndsu08 · Jun 18, 2005, 10:15 am

Quote:

Quote by: mr.perfecto

Libertarians, Liberals, Communists and Conservatives all agree on at least one thing. America is d00med.

For liberals, its the gulag-state and imperial wars, for libertarians its all that plus our evil banking system and our "welfare state." For communists its our oppressive system of private property that condones the exploitation of the laborer. And for conservatives, its the abandoning of the moral framework that a society needs to support and defend itself.

I just wanted to see how people felt about this simplelistic analysis.

And the 95% of Americans who don't belong to any of those because they could give a crap think it's the best place in the world.

Agent007 · Jun 18, 2005, 11:14 am

MrPerfecto, perhaps we are fooling ourselves; that is, each ideology may be missing some vital element.

castille · Jun 19, 2005, 01:00 am

The end of the 20th century has brought about massive change; globalisation (spearheaded by the Internet), technological advances, and changes in social attitudes.

As a result, people start getting nervous. Conservatives complain our morals are going down. Socialists complain corporations are exploiting people. Libertarians claim the welfare state will implode on itself.

Its called a "panic phase", and it happens all the time. Remember the 1950s, when Americans thought the Russians were going to blast them with nukes? Well, due to the mutual destruction thing, this would've never happened. Remember the 1970s, when we had the whole "hippy" thing? Well, 90% of those hippies are now working in multibillion dollar corporations as wealthy executives.

90% of people are naturally afraid of change. Rather than embrace change, they fear for their security. So they come up with all kinds of panic.

mr.perfecto · Jun 22, 2005, 04:20 am

Yes, but the anxiety about those things is much of the reason why we don't have to deal with them anymore. It would be different if you said, "Everyone was afraid of triggering a nuclear winter, but it happened and it wasn't so bad."

For instance, I work with dangerous chemicals often during my work hours. While I don't care a fig about "Global Climate Change," I understand that the hazardous materials need to be handled with care and disposed of properly. I'd like to think I'd still be as cautious without all the panic-triggered overreactions to past calamities, but the truth is I doubt I think any differently than anyone else.

Jun 16, 2005, 04:14 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
mr.perfecto Igneous Magma Posts: 632	I just realized something... Libertarians, Liberals, Communists and Conservatives all agree on at least one thing. America is d00med. For liberals, its the gulag-state and imperial wars, for libertarians its all that plus our evil banking system and our "welfare state." For communists its our oppressive system of private property that condones the exploitation of the laborer. And for conservatives, its the abandoning of the moral framework that a society needs to support and defend itself. I just wanted to see how people felt about this simplelistic analysis.

Jun 16, 2005, 04:21 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Morgan_Freeman Illogic Hunter Location: Seattle Posts: 2,385	America may be doomed, but the Republic of Cascadia has a bright future. http://zapatopi.net/cascadia.html "A republic, if you can keep it." -- Benjamin Franklin Free State Project freestateproject.org

Jun 16, 2005, 12:20 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Thunder Wave World Peas Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 118	Oh yes. I saw that just now. That's so hilarious. ハハハハハハハ人の振り見て我が振りなおせ。十人十色。 :( :) :confused: :rolleyes: :eek: ~ Debate Party

Jun 19, 2005, 01:00 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	The end of the 20th century has brought about massive change; globalisation (spearheaded by the Internet), technological advances, and changes in social attitudes. As a result, people start getting nervous. Conservatives complain our morals are going down. Socialists complain corporations are exploiting people. Libertarians claim the welfare state will implode on itself. Its called a "panic phase", and it happens all the time. Remember the 1950s, when Americans thought the Russians were going to blast them with nukes? Well, due to the mutual destruction thing, this would've never happened. Remember the 1970s, when we had the whole "hippy" thing? Well, 90% of those hippies are now working in multibillion dollar corporations as wealthy executives. 90% of people are naturally afraid of change. Rather than embrace change, they fear for their security. So they come up with all kinds of panic. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Jun 16, 2005, 06:13 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Agent007 BANNED Posts: 302	I do not believe that they all think America is absolutely doomed; they may just think that America is doomed unless their respective ideology takes over. That fact explains why there is such a struggle for political power in the country.

Jun 16, 2005, 12:13 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Agent007 BANNED Posts: 302	I think it is a joke, especially concerning the Sasquatch Militia.

Jun 18, 2005, 11:14 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Agent007 BANNED Posts: 302	MrPerfecto, perhaps we are fooling ourselves; that is, each ideology may be missing some vital element.

Jun 22, 2005, 04:20 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
mr.perfecto Igneous Magma Posts: 632	Yes, but the anxiety about those things is much of the reason why we don't have to deal with them anymore. It would be different if you said, "Everyone was afraid of triggering a nuclear winter, but it happened and it wasn't so bad." For instance, I work with dangerous chemicals often during my work hours. While I don't care a fig about "Global Climate Change," I understand that the hazardous materials need to be handled with care and disposed of properly. I'd like to think I'd still be as cautious without all the panic-triggered overreactions to past calamities, but the truth is I doubt I think any differently than anyone else.