Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

RightThinker · Apr 15, 2004, 01:24 pm

Conspiracies in government are possible and probably happen all of the time. But not on this scale. Someone said threatening their children would have silenced people. That may be true if it were 3 or 4 people. The amount of people who would have had to been involved...someone would have spoke about it and then the rest would have followed. The government has a hard time keeping something that happened yesterday under wraps. What makes you people thing they could pull of such a hoax for such a long period of time.

There will always be people who find conspiracy in everything our government does. (or does not do)

PatrickHenry · Apr 15, 2004, 01:28 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
How do you know they are moon rocks and not something fabricated on Earth?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I trust geologists, I guess. They are professional "rock guys". They get opportunities to examine the "moon rocks" and I am trusting that their professional integrity would sound the alarm if there was aught amiss. In contrast to other situations of conspiracy where the pros collude, what do geologists have to gain by cooperation with the shadow agenda?

RightThinker · Apr 15, 2004, 02:06 pm

What does any NASA computer guy have to gain? Or any other non-administrative member of the NASA team.

PatrickHenry · Apr 15, 2004, 04:45 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RightThinker,)
What does any NASA computer guy have to gain? Or any other non-administrative member of the NASA team.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Well said.

But the moon is a great resource: shallow gravity well, lots of free solar energy, nobody has to pay anybody for the raw materials.

The only reason for lack of continuity on a moon program was the cost/benefit ratio.

There are entities that could round up the funding, gather the expertise and likely make it a paying proposition. But without Big Brother's oversight, the US would almost certainly consider these endeavors a threat.

From a Constitution Party standpoint the space program needs limits for anything above national defense needs or other specific powers delegated to the Feds by the states (See the Tenth Amendment)

die Nullte · Apr 16, 2004, 06:01 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
And just to stir the pot a little. How do you know they are moon rocks and not something fabricated on Earth?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Please explain how this could have been accomplished sufficiently well to convince all of the geologists who've examined these rocks over the past 30+ years. Keep in mind that the Soviets independently retrieved a few grams of material from the Moon, and that their samples agree with the Apollo samples sufficiently to confirm that the Apollo samples came from the moon. I'm asking not just for the abstract possibility that the moon rocks were created on earth, but for specific hardware and techniques that would have been employed to fake them.

Apr 16, 2004, 06:57 pm

Couldn't the conspiracy extend to the Soviets, and all the geologist who have looked at the rocks? C'mon, it could have, couldn't it?

dotcoma · Apr 16, 2004, 07:02 pm

Considering that the European central banks fund the capitalists AND the communists, I wouldn't be surprized.

die Nullte · Apr 16, 2004, 10:57 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dave654,)
Couldn't the conspiracy extend to the Soviets, and all the geologist who have looked at the rocks? C'mon, it could have, couldn't it?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

No! Just because you can dream it up doesn't make it true or even plausible.

dotcoma · Apr 18, 2004, 12:35 pm

Nobody is "dreaming" up anything. There are holes in the story. Questions are valid.

Mozart1220 · Apr 18, 2004, 12:50 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RightThinker,)
Conspiracies in government are possible and probably happen all of the time. But not on this scale. Someone said threatening their children would have silenced people. That may be true if it were 3 or 4 people. The amount of people who would have had to been involved...someone would have spoke about it and then the rest would have followed. The government has a hard time keeping something that happened yesterday under wraps. What makes you people thing they could pull of such a hoax for such a long period of time.

There will always be people who find conspiracy in everything our government does. (or does not do)<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Hey, there are still people who believe Oswald killed Kennedy in spite of tons of evidence to the contrary.

I believe men walked on the moon. It's not much of a stretch. Like Tom Hanks said in Apollo 13, "...It wasn't a miricle, we just decided to go."

dotcoma · Apr 18, 2004, 12:56 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Mozart1220,)

I believe men walked on the moon. It's not much of a stretch. Like Tom Hanks said in Apollo 13, "...It wasn't a miricle, we just decided to go."<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I never said they didn't. Review my posts.

Mozart1220 · Apr 18, 2004, 05:11 pm

I was answering the whole "conspiricy" angle as a whole, not neccesarily you. Sorry if it seemed like I was arguing against you.

I have trouble believing there are actualy people who DON'T think we went to the moon. I read a book once, and I wish I could find it again, where the author looked at how fast human knowledge and technology grew over history, and given how many times knowledge has been suppressed by churches and general fear of progress, he theorised the we could have walked on the moon as erlay as the mid 1700's. Interesting read if nothing else.

Apr 21, 2004, 11:03 pm

die Nullte,

Good grief man, don't go assuming that something was confused when it wasn't. A bit rude when you don't know what the poster was referring to.

Good posts overall. You aren't going to convince the lunar-tics. They'll spend hours watching crappy tv specials and videos, but will refuse to spend 5 minutes at a good debunking website.

die Nullte · Apr 22, 2004, 02:43 am

Quote:

Originally posted by roxdog,
Nobody is "dreaming" up anything. There are holes in the story. Questions are valid.

No, there are no "holes."

StoneWT: dave564 asks me to accept the possibility that the Soviets and all of the geologists who've examined the moon rocks are in on "the conspiracy." No, it's not possible. If it's "rude" to say so, then so be it.

Apr 25, 2004, 04:53 pm

Actully I was being sarcastic. It's rather dificult to do in writing. I don't think it's possible to maintain a conspiracy of this magnatude. Sorry for the confusion.
I think my prior post will illustrate I do believe that men landed on the moon.

Apr 26, 2004, 10:37 am

rox,

A typical lunar-tic conversation.

nut: There are are so many problems.

sane person: what problems?

nut: oh, shadows at different angles, filled in shadows, flag waving....drool, drool, muble, mumble.....

sane person: that's because of light reflecting off of the moon's surface, curvature of the moon, astronaut planting the flag...

nut: There are still so many problems...

sane person: What problems?

nut: oh, shadows at different angles, filled in shadows, flag waving....drool, drool, muble, mumble.....

All of the ridiculous questions have been answered. The Fox special, the Collier (votescam guy) video 'paper moon', Kaysing, Rene, and 'A funny thing happened o the way to the moon' are all rehashes of the same crap.

RocketScientist · May 2, 2004, 10:47 pm

If anyone does have questions as to whether or not we really did land on the moon, we really did, please see the website hosted by Phil Plait, www.badastronomy.com, he shows all ways that we really did land on the moon.

Mr.Vicchio · May 2, 2004, 11:39 pm

I think the best example of we DID land on the moon would be oh.. pictures, video, Appollo rocket program moon rocks?

NO!

Two easy answers.

1. The number of people reqiured to pull off sucha stunt coupled by the number of people that had to be fooled(talking Nasa pro's here) means that if it HAD been faked, the word, no kidding would have been leaked by now.

2. The USSR tracked the appollo mision from the earth, to the moon and back. Don't you think they owuld have called Americ's bluff at the time? Gee lets see... yeah, they would have...

If any "WE DID NOT GO TO THE MOON!" peeps can show how my 2 points can and have been proven wrong... please be my guest.

PatrickHenry · May 3, 2004, 03:28 am

Furthermore, ya gotta figure: Someday there will be a(nother) moon mission. If they don't locate the remains of Apollo, (shakes head) America would have to slink off the world stage...The US would never risk that in a million years.

May 3, 2004, 01:10 pm

This is caused by isolating yourself from opposing information. Anything can sound good if you only listen to one person or side. That's how Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly fool people into thinking they are master debaters and extremely knowledgeable. You could take a blithering idiot, give him the ability to cut someone off the air, allow him to comment on the caller/guest after the person can't respond and you'd have another brilliant host.

Same goes for holocaust deniers. Most of the web fans don't bother reading material that supports mass gassings in nazi concentration camps. They'll go on and on about the Leuchter report or their favorite revisionist hero without doing their own research.

The same also goes for people that believe missiles or different types of aircraft other than the hijacked ones crashed into the WTC and the Pentagon.

The more they blather about seeking the truth or wanting to get the word out, the less actual research they do.

They frequently claim to have read hundreds/thousands of pages of material and/or watched hours of videotape supporting their positions, but they refuse to spend five minutes reading a documented webpage (or watching a short video clip) refuting what they believe.

Apr 15, 2004, 01:24 pm	#61 (permalink) (top)
RightThinker Molten Ash Location: St. Thomas U. S. V. I. Posts: 146	Conspiracies in government are possible and probably happen all of the time. But not on this scale. Someone said threatening their children would have silenced people. That may be true if it were 3 or 4 people. The amount of people who would have had to been involved...someone would have spoke about it and then the rest would have followed. The government has a hard time keeping something that happened yesterday under wraps. What makes you people thing they could pull of such a hoax for such a long period of time. There will always be people who find conspiracy in everything our government does. (or does not do) "This country was founded and built by people with great dreams and the courage to take great risks." -Ronald Reagan- January 26, 1983

Apr 15, 2004, 01:28 pm	#62 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,438	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,) How do you know they are moon rocks and not something fabricated on Earth?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I trust geologists, I guess. They are professional "rock guys". They get opportunities to examine the "moon rocks" and I am trusting that their professional integrity would sound the alarm if there was aught amiss. In contrast to other situations of conspiracy where the pros collude, what do geologists have to gain by cooperation with the shadow agenda? "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Apr 15, 2004, 02:06 pm	#63 (permalink) (top)
RightThinker Molten Ash Location: St. Thomas U. S. V. I. Posts: 146	What does any NASA computer guy have to gain? Or any other non-administrative member of the NASA team. "This country was founded and built by people with great dreams and the courage to take great risks." -Ronald Reagan- January 26, 1983

Apr 15, 2004, 04:45 pm	#64 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,438	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RightThinker,) What does any NASA computer guy have to gain? Or any other non-administrative member of the NASA team.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Well said. But the moon is a great resource: shallow gravity well, lots of free solar energy, nobody has to pay anybody for the raw materials. The only reason for lack of continuity on a moon program was the cost/benefit ratio. There are entities that could round up the funding, gather the expertise and likely make it a paying proposition. But without Big Brother's oversight, the US would almost certainly consider these endeavors a threat. From a Constitution Party standpoint the space program needs limits for anything above national defense needs or other specific powers delegated to the Feds by the states (See the Tenth Amendment) "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Apr 16, 2004, 06:01 pm	#65 (permalink) (top)
die Nullte Sedimentary Rock Posts: 9	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,) And just to stir the pot a little. How do you know they are moon rocks and not something fabricated on Earth?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Please explain how this could have been accomplished sufficiently well to convince all of the geologists who've examined these rocks over the past 30+ years. Keep in mind that the Soviets independently retrieved a few grams of material from the Moon, and that their samples agree with the Apollo samples sufficiently to confirm that the Apollo samples came from the moon. I'm asking not just for the abstract possibility that the moon rocks were created on earth, but for specific hardware and techniques that would have been employed to fake them.

Apr 16, 2004, 06:57 pm	#66 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	Couldn't the conspiracy extend to the Soviets, and all the geologist who have looked at the rocks? C'mon, it could have, couldn't it?

Apr 16, 2004, 07:02 pm	#67 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	Considering that the European central banks fund the capitalists AND the communists, I wouldn't be surprized.

Apr 16, 2004, 10:57 pm	#68 (permalink) (top)
die Nullte Sedimentary Rock Posts: 9	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dave654,) Couldn't the conspiracy extend to the Soviets, and all the geologist who have looked at the rocks? C'mon, it could have, couldn't it?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> No! Just because you can dream it up doesn't make it true or even plausible.

Apr 18, 2004, 12:35 pm	#69 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	Nobody is "dreaming" up anything. There are holes in the story. Questions are valid.

Apr 18, 2004, 12:50 pm	#70 (permalink) (top)
Mozart1220 Igneous Magma Posts: 687	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RightThinker,) Conspiracies in government are possible and probably happen all of the time. But not on this scale. Someone said threatening their children would have silenced people. That may be true if it were 3 or 4 people. The amount of people who would have had to been involved...someone would have spoke about it and then the rest would have followed. The government has a hard time keeping something that happened yesterday under wraps. What makes you people thing they could pull of such a hoax for such a long period of time. There will always be people who find conspiracy in everything our government does. (or does not do)<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Hey, there are still people who believe Oswald killed Kennedy in spite of tons of evidence to the contrary. I believe men walked on the moon. It's not much of a stretch. Like Tom Hanks said in Apollo 13, "...It wasn't a miricle, we just decided to go." Big Jr is watching you!

Apr 18, 2004, 12:56 pm	#71 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Mozart1220,) I believe men walked on the moon. It's not much of a stretch. Like Tom Hanks said in Apollo 13, "...It wasn't a miricle, we just decided to go."<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I never said they didn't. Review my posts.

Apr 18, 2004, 05:11 pm	#72 (permalink) (top)
Mozart1220 Igneous Magma Posts: 687	I was answering the whole "conspiricy" angle as a whole, not neccesarily you. Sorry if it seemed like I was arguing against you. I have trouble believing there are actualy people who DON'T think we went to the moon. I read a book once, and I wish I could find it again, where the author looked at how fast human knowledge and technology grew over history, and given how many times knowledge has been suppressed by churches and general fear of progress, he theorised the we could have walked on the moon as erlay as the mid 1700's. Interesting read if nothing else. Big Jr is watching you!

Apr 21, 2004, 11:03 pm	#73 (permalink) (top)
StoneWT Guest Posts: n/a	die Nullte, Good grief man, don't go assuming that something was confused when it wasn't. A bit rude when you don't know what the poster was referring to. Good posts overall. You aren't going to convince the lunar-tics. They'll spend hours watching crappy tv specials and videos, but will refuse to spend 5 minutes at a good debunking website.

Apr 25, 2004, 04:53 pm	#75 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	Actully I was being sarcastic. It's rather dificult to do in writing. I don't think it's possible to maintain a conspiracy of this magnatude. Sorry for the confusion. I think my prior post will illustrate I do believe that men landed on the moon.

Apr 26, 2004, 10:37 am	#76 (permalink) (top)
StoneWT Guest Posts: n/a	rox, A typical lunar-tic conversation. nut: There are are so many problems. sane person: what problems? nut: oh, shadows at different angles, filled in shadows, flag waving....drool, drool, muble, mumble..... sane person: that's because of light reflecting off of the moon's surface, curvature of the moon, astronaut planting the flag... nut: There are still so many problems... sane person: What problems? nut: oh, shadows at different angles, filled in shadows, flag waving....drool, drool, muble, mumble..... All of the ridiculous questions have been answered. The Fox special, the Collier (votescam guy) video 'paper moon', Kaysing, Rene, and 'A funny thing happened o the way to the moon' are all rehashes of the same crap.

May 2, 2004, 10:47 pm	#77 (permalink) (top)
RocketScientist Sedimentary Rock Location: Iowa Posts: 6	If anyone does have questions as to whether or not we really did land on the moon, we really did, please see the website hosted by Phil Plait, www.badastronomy.com, he shows all ways that we really did land on the moon.

May 2, 2004, 11:39 pm	#78 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	I think the best example of we DID land on the moon would be oh.. pictures, video, Appollo rocket program moon rocks? NO! Two easy answers. 1. The number of people reqiured to pull off sucha stunt coupled by the number of people that had to be fooled(talking Nasa pro's here) means that if it HAD been faked, the word, no kidding would have been leaked by now. 2. The USSR tracked the appollo mision from the earth, to the moon and back. Don't you think they owuld have called Americ's bluff at the time? Gee lets see... yeah, they would have... If any "WE DID NOT GO TO THE MOON!" peeps can show how my 2 points can and have been proven wrong... please be my guest. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 3, 2004, 03:28 am	#79 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,438	Furthermore, ya gotta figure: Someday there will be a(nother) moon mission. If they don't locate the remains of Apollo, (shakes head) America would have to slink off the world stage...The US would never risk that in a million years. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

May 3, 2004, 01:10 pm	#80 (permalink) (top)
StoneWT Guest Posts: n/a	This is caused by isolating yourself from opposing information. Anything can sound good if you only listen to one person or side. That's how Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly fool people into thinking they are master debaters and extremely knowledgeable. You could take a blithering idiot, give him the ability to cut someone off the air, allow him to comment on the caller/guest after the person can't respond and you'd have another brilliant host. Same goes for holocaust deniers. Most of the web fans don't bother reading material that supports mass gassings in nazi concentration camps. They'll go on and on about the Leuchter report or their favorite revisionist hero without doing their own research. The same also goes for people that believe missiles or different types of aircraft other than the hijacked ones crashed into the WTC and the Pentagon. The more they blather about seeking the truth or wanting to get the word out, the less actual research they do. They frequently claim to have read hundreds/thousands of pages of material and/or watched hours of videotape supporting their positions, but they refuse to spend five minutes reading a documented webpage (or watching a short video clip) refuting what they believe.