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moustache · May 28, 2005, 12:36 am

I dont know very much on this subject except for the basics...so if all of you could please give me your input I would appreciate it.

How does the U.S justify giving money to Isreal instead of palestine... and why is giving money to Isreal right?

Is it because Palestine harbours terrorists?, or is there another answer.

Mr.Vicchio · May 28, 2005, 12:48 am

Because Isreal, unlike Palastine is a democracy, because the Isrealies are the only country that doesn't seem to have "kill all infidels" on it's to do list, and because American's feel guilty that we were unable to stop the killing of 6 million Jews at the hands of Hitler.

castille · May 30, 2005, 02:24 am

You don't need justification to give money.

You need to only weigh the benefits to a country. Think of the Cold War; the US and USSR both gave billions of dollars to countries they would never admit to liking.

moustache · May 30, 2005, 02:50 am

well what exactly is your theory on why we are giving money to isreal instead of palestine then?

The Analog Kid · May 30, 2005, 03:53 am

Quote:

I dont know very much on this subject except for the basics...so if all of you could please give me your input I would appreciate it.

How does the U.S justify giving money to Isreal instead of palestine... and why is giving money to Isreal right?

Is it because Palestine harbours terrorists?, or is there another answer.

We were largely neutral in the affairs of Israel/middle east neighbors until the mid-late 70's. Certainly Nixon took Israels side, he was probably the first to openly do so but serious money did not start to flow until later on, under Carter. Most people aren't aware but at that same time we started paying off Israel we also began paying off Egypt in large sums. We've given a crapload of money to Israeli neighbors.

As far as today, I think it's pretty clear that we are a friend of Israel. Granted, they are not perfect and have not always acted in best faith with the US but by enlarge they are our friend and do not pose any kind of threat.
As far as why we aren't giving the Palestinians money, I just don't think that should or can happen until they stop with the bombings and terrorism.
Hopefully with Arafat gone, Abbas can start to make some meaningful progress.
Arafat was the single, biggest obstacle to peace.

On a side note, haven't you wondered why all the oil rich nations in the area have not really lifted a finger to help the Palestinians?
Sure, they pay off suicide bombers families but outside of that they've done little. It makes one think that they are more interested in the conflict and sustaining a reason to hate Israel than they are in the welfare of the palestinians or the realization of a Palestinians state.

moustache · May 30, 2005, 04:35 am

Thanks for your input Analog. The reason Im asking questions about this, is that I recently was talking to my palestinian friend who kept talking about how Isreal is just a thorn in the arab world. He kept proclaiming that the US is wrong for giving isreal money, and they should also be considerate towards palestine. I know he's very biased, so I need some information from the U.S/Isreal perspective before we talk about the issue again.

thanks again for everybodys input so far, and for the input in the posts to come.

Mr.Vicchio · May 30, 2005, 06:04 am

The goal of the arab muslim world is the eradication of the Jewish state.

That's why they are a thorn in their side. Jerusalem is a Holy City to three major religion, and the muslims have a hard time stomacheing the fact the Jews control it.

The Analog Kid · May 31, 2005, 04:39 pm

Quote:

The goal of the arab muslim world is the eradication of the Jewish state.

Yep..

Moustache, pose these questions to your friend;

A) Does he agree that is their goal?
and
B) Does he agree with that goal?

Actually, while you are at it, ask him:

c) Why has the oil rich arab/muslim world not done more to help the Palestinians?

Mr.Vicchio · May 31, 2005, 04:47 pm

Also, ask him what he thinks of Jorden denying the Palastinians THOSE lands, most of which actually compromise the native lands of the non-Jews throughout history (otherwise known today as Palastinians.)

mr.perfecto · May 31, 2005, 06:23 pm

Quote:

Quote by: moustache

I dont know very much on this subject except for the basics...so if all of you could please give me your input I would appreciate it.

How does the U.S justify giving money to Isreal instead of palestine... and why is giving money to Isreal right?

Is it because Palestine harbours terrorists?, or is there another answer.

Does Palestine even have a real government? I don't pay much attention to the Middle East....

The Analog Kid · May 31, 2005, 07:16 pm

Well, kinda, sorta, not really. :confused:

moustache · May 31, 2005, 08:05 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The Analog Kid

Moustache, pose these questions to your friend;

A) Does he agree that is their goal?
and
B) Does he agree with that goal?

Actually, while you are at it, ask him:

c) Why has the oil rich arab/muslim world not done more to help the Palestinians?

I will ask him next time it comes up in conversation, especially question c.

Quote:

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio

Also, ask him what he thinks of Jorden denying the Palastinians THOSE lands, most of which actually compromise the native lands of the non-Jews throughout history (otherwise known today as Palastinians.)

Can you tell me more of this Mr.V (the part about Jordan denying th palestinians land), because this really seems like something I should bring up, seeing as how he visits Jordan alot.

Mr.Vicchio · Jun 1, 2005, 02:05 am

Look it up :) The palatinians LIVED in Jorden but were tossed out (I do believe by Syria) and have not been allowed back in. NO Arab country has really been open about letting Palastinians live on their lands. They dumped them in Isreal for a reason.

Now you tell me what that reason was, and how could we NOT defend Isreal over the Palastinians.

moustache · Jun 1, 2005, 03:01 am

Well I am all for defending Isreal over palestinians... Thanks for all he great info. :) . I have alot to bring up.

castille · Jun 1, 2005, 09:58 am

Quote:

Quote by: moustache

well what exactly is your theory on why we are giving money to isreal instead of palestine then?

Cuz the Russians are giving money to the Arabs.

If the US also gave money to Palestine and Syria, the Arabs will be confused on who to support.

rcne · Jun 1, 2005, 10:41 am

In another discussion group, there was a fairly lengthy discussion on Eur-Arabia. It seems that Europe is courting the Arabs with open arms and behind the scenes funding to offset whatever perceived advantage Israel has.

In short the European view is pro-Arab.

moustache · Jun 1, 2005, 05:04 pm

so they really are both being equally funded?

or is it still lopsided in isreal's favor?

The Analog Kid · Jun 1, 2005, 06:18 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio

Look it up :) The palatinians LIVED in Jorden but were tossed out

Yep.

Quote:

Cuz the Russians are giving money to the Arabs.

Yep. The ME was another playground for the 2 superpowers during the Cold war. Iran, Iraq, Syria all that. Lots of Russian money, and American, went into the middle east.

trixmix · Jun 3, 2005, 02:21 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio

Because Isreal, unlike Palastine is a democracy, because the Isrealies are the only country that doesn't seem to have "kill all infidels" on it's to do list, and because American's feel guilty that we were unable to stop the killing of 6 million Jews at the hands of Hitler.

Well said!

moustache · Jun 3, 2005, 07:44 pm

does anybody know if Palestine is as equally funded as Isreal?

also, who land was it in the very beggining.

May 28, 2005, 12:36 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
moustache Conservative Location: P-Town, OR Posts: 446	I have a Question I dont know very much on this subject except for the basics...so if all of you could please give me your input I would appreciate it. How does the U.S justify giving money to Isreal instead of palestine... and why is giving money to Isreal right? Is it because Palestine harbours terrorists?, or is there another answer. Q: What's a conservative? A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.

May 28, 2005, 12:48 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Because Isreal, unlike Palastine is a democracy, because the Isrealies are the only country that doesn't seem to have "kill all infidels" on it's to do list, and because American's feel guilty that we were unable to stop the killing of 6 million Jews at the hands of Hitler. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 30, 2005, 02:24 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	You don't need justification to give money. You need to only weigh the benefits to a country. Think of the Cold War; the US and USSR both gave billions of dollars to countries they would never admit to liking. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

May 30, 2005, 02:50 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
moustache Conservative Location: P-Town, OR Posts: 446	well what exactly is your theory on why we are giving money to isreal instead of palestine then? Q: What's a conservative? A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.

May 30, 2005, 04:35 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
moustache Conservative Location: P-Town, OR Posts: 446	Thanks for your input Analog. The reason Im asking questions about this, is that I recently was talking to my palestinian friend who kept talking about how Isreal is just a thorn in the arab world. He kept proclaiming that the US is wrong for giving isreal money, and they should also be considerate towards palestine. I know he's very biased, so I need some information from the U.S/Isreal perspective before we talk about the issue again. thanks again for everybodys input so far, and for the input in the posts to come. Q: What's a conservative? A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.

May 30, 2005, 06:04 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	The goal of the arab muslim world is the eradication of the Jewish state. That's why they are a thorn in their side. Jerusalem is a Holy City to three major religion, and the muslims have a hard time stomacheing the fact the Jews control it. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 31, 2005, 04:47 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Also, ask him what he thinks of Jorden denying the Palastinians THOSE lands, most of which actually compromise the native lands of the non-Jews throughout history (otherwise known today as Palastinians.) Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 31, 2005, 07:16 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
The Analog Kid Igneous Magma Posts: 216	Well, kinda, sorta, not really. :confused:

Jun 1, 2005, 02:05 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Look it up :) The palatinians LIVED in Jorden but were tossed out (I do believe by Syria) and have not been allowed back in. NO Arab country has really been open about letting Palastinians live on their lands. They dumped them in Isreal for a reason. Now you tell me what that reason was, and how could we NOT defend Isreal over the Palastinians. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jun 1, 2005, 03:01 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
moustache Conservative Location: P-Town, OR Posts: 446	Well I am all for defending Isreal over palestinians... Thanks for all he great info. :) . I have alot to bring up. Q: What's a conservative? A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.

Jun 1, 2005, 10:41 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
rcne Moderator/nobody Posts: 1,566	In another discussion group, there was a fairly lengthy discussion on Eur-Arabia. It seems that Europe is courting the Arabs with open arms and behind the scenes funding to offset whatever perceived advantage Israel has. In short the European view is pro-Arab. Live Long and Prosper (Genetics and Capitalism)

Jun 1, 2005, 05:04 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
moustache Conservative Location: P-Town, OR Posts: 446	so they really are both being equally funded? or is it still lopsided in isreal's favor? Q: What's a conservative? A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.

Jun 3, 2005, 07:44 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
moustache Conservative Location: P-Town, OR Posts: 446	does anybody know if Palestine is as equally funded as Isreal? also, who land was it in the very beggining. Q: What's a conservative? A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.