Are there any pro-choice conservatives here?

[Pale RIder]

Quote by: castille We still haven't decided if its a human being yet. Also I would not allow a woman to have a child if she could not look after it responsibly, since most of those kids will grow up with severe mental problems. Hell, I disagree with the concept of "single mother" (or father), since psychological studies do show only having 1 parent can have a negative impact on children.

We? Who is we? You must be talking about the pro choice side of the discussion. Those people who run from science in order to hold on to their myth. Everyone else has come to the realization that they are human beings. There is no argument in the scientific world as to whether they are human beings or not. The only discussion taking place now is whether it is ok, or not to kill them.

If you wish, I can provide a bibliography for a good selection of medical school textbooks that state quite clearly that we are living human beings from the moment of our conception if you care to research the subject yourself.. After all, what else could the offspring of two human beings be other than a human being.

And no one forces an irresponsible parent to actually raise the child. Adoption comes to mind and would answer any of the objections that you have raised.

[Doug]

I am a conservative but I would not want to put people in prison for having, or performing, an abortion.

Doug

[James]

Quote by: Doug I am a conservative but I would not want to put people in prison for having, or performing, an abortion. Doug

Then what's going to keep unethical people from having one?

[castille]

I don't know how many of you support this, but I subscribe to the somewhat conservative ideal of "practical necessity".

Think about it this way - sometimes war is a necessity, even if innocents die. Similarly, in order to maintain social stability, abortion might be a necessity to avoid kids from growing up with parents who don't want them.

Yes it sounds cruel (even though the fetus doesn't have consciousness of their existence), but sometimes it becomes a necessity.

[Pale RIder]

Quote by: castille I don't know how many of you support this, but I subscribe to the somewhat conservative ideal of "practical necessity". Think about it this way - sometimes war is a necessity, even if innocents die. Similarly, in order to maintain social stability, abortion might be a necessity to avoid kids from growing up with parents who don't want them. Yes it sounds cruel (even though the fetus doesn't have consciousness of their existence), but sometimes it becomes a necessity.

So, if mom (or dad) decides that they really don't want to raise that 2 month old infant, are they justified in killing it?..after all, it isn't self aware.

By the way, neuroscientists have held for decades that any unborn at 8 weeks or later should be given a general anesthetic prior to an abortion as it feels the exquisite agony of being torn apart or drowning in salt water just the same as you would. My bet would be that pain on that level would make one quite aware of his or her existence if on no other level than the sensation of pain.

You are claiming to be conservative, but that sounds like a very liberal line of thought. Are you sure that you are in the right place?

[Logjam]

Pro-choice is the wrong name for abortion. Rather it should be called "infantile human murder". Which is what it is, obviously.

That being said, I'm not totally opposed to abortion. I think that there might be some reasons where it is the only choice to save the life of the mother. But it should only be legal if it is the only choice to save the mom's life.

Many of you don't recall what it was like before we had legalized abortion. I do. Abortion wasn't legal until I was well into my adulthood.

LIfe was fine then. There were few unwed mothers. If there were they went to an "unwed mother's home" and gave birth there. They babies were put up for adoption. So it was relatively easy for folks to adopt white babies. It's almost impossible now.

Sometimes women went to Sweden for an abortion; or Mexico, where they MIGHT survive.

Occassionally you'd hear of a botched back alley abortion. They'd find the corpse in the garbage in an alley somewhere. But it was VERY rare. I maybe heard about it happening twice.

Sex out of wedlock was relatively rare. It was considered wrong. Women were well aware of the problem of unwed pregnancy. In my entire high school career (in a large Northern California high school - Drake hi in San Anselmo, CA to be specific) I recall only one girl becoming pregnant. That's in four years!

When I was a high school teacher we had an average of 50 to 60 pregnant girls annually. And we have the pill! We didn't have the pill when I was a high school kid. (Maybe we did, but kids weren't using them.)

American society was better off when we didn't have legal abortion. The left won't recognize it; they scream that there were millions of back alley abortions. No so.

Now we have had about 50 million abortions. That's huge, and much bloodier than what happened prior to abortion being made legal. I'll bet that more women die from legal abortions than died to back alley abortions back in the 60's.

[Waychel]

I'm a conservative and I am also pro-choice. I do believe that there should be limits on abortion though. Such as, even though I am pro-choice, I supported the banning of partial-birth abortion entirely. I know that to many conservatives this may be considered hypocritical, but then, we all have different philosophies surrounding when life begins.

[Pale RIder]

Quote by: Waychel I'm a conservative and I am also pro-choice. I do believe that there should be limits on abortion though. Such as, even though I am pro-choice, I supported the banning of partial-birth abortion entirely. I know that to many conservatives this may be considered hypocritical, but then, we all have different philosophies surrounding when life begins.

When life begins is not a matter of philosophy, it is a matter of science. Science is crystal clear on when our lives begin. You can trace your lifetime back to the moment of your conception. One second further and you don't exist, but from that moment forward, you have been a living, growing, maturing human being. You aren't a whit more human today than you were at the moment of your conception. Just more mature.

[Protostar]

Quote by: Doug Does anyone who is otherwise against abortion believe that it is ok if the woman was raped? If so, how do you square this with the belief that a fetus is a human being?

I don't. Just because a woman is raped doesn't mean the child should have to suffer for another's actions. It's a sad thing but the child shouldn't have to die because of it.

[Logjam]

Quote by: Waychel I'm a conservative and I am also pro-choice. I do believe that there should be limits on abortion though. Such as, even though I am pro-choice, I supported the banning of partial-birth abortion entirely. I know that to many conservatives this may be considered hypocritical, but then, we all have different philosophies surrounding when life begins.

I tend to agree with you. But what about the situation where the baby is fine, and then one day the mother says to herself (or to whoever will listen) "Think I'll kill it". And she does. Now, I must admit that I had a girlfriend who did this, and I was the father. At the time (1974) we didn't give it much thought. We weren't married and we didn't want to be married. My employment situation was iffy and I couldn't support a family.

So I paid for the abortion.

I never saw my now-ex girlfriend again.

She eventually married, but she was in her early 50's when she did. The only child that she ever would have had we aborted. I feel terrible about it now. I hope that the lady married a guy who had children. Children bring such a wonderful dynamic to your life, and many don't figure that out until they get to me my age.......old!!!

I wish that we had not aborted that baby. He/she'd be about 31 now. I paid to murder him/her.