The declination of the English Language

[Lora]

Although at 18, I am part of the audience seen as responsible for this, it really annoys me.

The English Language is a beautiful strong language with a great history. With the introduction of text messages, chat rooms etc the lazyway of typing 'Lyz dis' is slowly turning into the norm. With the way in which languages progress the popular choice prevails and I worry that this will soon be the norm, with the more formal usage of our traditional language fading away.

Also, people my age (and indeed many adults) seem to have very little respect for, and understanding of grammar.

Does this bother anyone else? Or should we respect this change, and adapt ourselves to use the language favoured by the young, and future generation of people?

[Samildanach]

Declination or evolution is the question. I prefer to think of it as evolution and I am pretty sure that the internet is the starting point for what will eventually become a global language which will be a composite of all the others. What is happening to English is probably exactly what is happening to all the others as well and soon when the shortened versions could well begin to intermix. Its not English that is declining it is evolving to form part of the web language that will be.

[Pooeypants]

It is declining if the variety of words used are reduced. Reduced ability to express ourselves leads to less varied thoughts. Sheeps are easier to control.

Oops, was I yelling gov't conspiracy just then?

[Lora]

Evolving would be the politically correct term I'm sure but I see it as more of a declination.

Language is changing due to laziness. Glottal stops used instead of pronouncing consonants ("bo'ul" for bottle), numbers for letters, dropping letters all together to type faster.

I don't see how "typin lik dis" could help us to create a language that can be used globally, rather it seems more difficult to read.

[Samildanach]

I fail to see that fullstops, a couple of t's etc constitutes any kind of declination.
If anything it adds to our vocabulary storage. Humans on average only use about 2500 words to express themselves. If you compress the words themselves then you leave space for more words in a human mind. think of it as word compression. The concept is the same.using boul for bottle is the same efficency gain we would get if we switch to a different language for example in russian they say stohochish = what do you want
in Latvian ko tu grib = what do you want? As you can see they are purely compressed phrases nothing more. Ideally we would think in a symbolic language as symbols compress the most meaning into the least space.
As for the typin lik dis = more difficult to read but if you are brought up with easier to understand.

[Lora]

The 'new' language no longer even looks like English. What about the richness and tradition of my language? It reveals so much about our culture. Now it only reveals how lazy teens fel lyk typin lyk idjits

[tinybear]

"Declination"? Surely you mean "decline"?

[Lora]

It was supposed to be funny? No?

[tinybear]

Oh yeah. Haha. Should've known it was a joke!

[Lora]

It's ok I have a weird sense of humour! Well, British. Same thing.

[Nono]

Y'know, every language changes every day, and it's an eminently democratic process: you can bemoan it but you can't do anything about it. People just find new ways of making themselves understood is all. Or they fail to make themselves understood, as some always have.

Looking back to a golden past of irreproachable grammatical stringency is misguided because that past never existed. Grammar rules gradually change along with everything else.

As for glottal stops, I hate them too but what can you do? They're fashionable, as Princess Diana all too painfully showed us.

[G. Adams]

I'm sure the same thing was said 200 years, 400 years and 600 years ago. If language is a reflection of culture, then your going to have to let language go, as sad as that is, because we can't stop the shifts in our culture. It's meant to change, so don't worry about it, just find a comfy niche to carve for yourself and watch everyone else go by. It's what I'm doing anyway.

Besides, if you think it's bad for English, imagine how it feels to have Welsh or Irish Gaelic as your first language. They've seen their language almost die in front of them.

[Milton Bradley]

If language were not allowed to evolve, we would have never arrived at the English language that you love so much.


Seems kind of silly to think evolution worked at one point in time, but fails to work now.

[Nono]

Right, English is a hybrid of the Latin and the Germanic. That could come about only by successive changes that invariably outraged some.

We all laugh at the pathetic attempts of the Académie française to safeguard the purity of the French language. It simply can't be done. Even the Nazis failed in their campaign to 'regermanicize' German, i.e get rid of Latin words and replace them with contrived Germanic clunkers. People just refused to use them, and these were the same people who were otherwise slavishly doing pretty well everything they were told to.

[RickSp]

I was wondering if it was merely British diction. Declination can be a synonym for decline, so the title is fine if a tad unusual. Personally I preferred reading the post title as "The Angular Distance from the Equator of the English Language," a slightly more common meaning of declination. Gives the thread an interesting geo-political spin, so to speak.

I don't think the language is in decline, merely changing, always changing. English is such a wonderful whore of a language. I heard a comment the other day where one scholar said that a colleague had commented that English has no word for schadenfreude. He replied, "Of course it does - Schadenfreude." English acquires what it wants and sheds what it no longer needs.

[Logjam]

Quote by: Nono Y'know, every language changes every day, and it's an eminently democratic process: you can bemoan it but you can't do anything about it. People just find new ways of making themselves understood is all. Or they fail to make themselves understood, as some always have.

I think that you may have inadvertantly hit the nail on the head. The important thing about languages is not what the language is, but rather that we use it properly.

Some say that one language is more descriptive, or sounds prettier than another. (who can argue that French is very beautiful!) [However when spoken by a truck driver it seems somehow incongruous.]

The important part about language that we learn to use the one we speak well. The fact that language changes through usage is irrelevant. However, one can use the language improperly. What is improper is decided by your audience. What is appropriate language to use with a band of Marines is very improper to use with your mother's sewing club.

However, I can say with some finality that English is impossible to spell. It is an amalgamation of too many languages each having it's own spelling rules. Sometimes I envy the Germans.

[Nono]

Quote by: Logjam I think that you may have inadvertantly hit the nail on the head.

Actually it was quite intentional. :)

It sounds to me like Lora's complaint is that, precisely, ever fewer people are using the language well. If this is true, it may be due to falling education standards and the fact that there are so many hypnotic leisure activities around today other than reading.
That said, deploring falling language (and other) standards is an age-old tradition.

Quote by: RickSP Personally I preferred reading the post title as "The Angular Distance from the Equator of the English Language," a slightly more common meaning of declination.

And I "The difference between English vis-à-vis the deplorable position of Magnetic North in our cursed present day and True North in the good old days".

English is such a wonderful whore of a language. I heard a comment the other day where one scholar said that a colleague had commented that English has no word for schadenfreude. He replied, "Of course it does - Schadenfreude." English acquires what it wants and sheds what it no longer needs.

Let's call it a pragmatic language. Every language has its strong and weak points and all languages adopt foreign words for what they lack (listen to all the English when two educated Hindi-speakers converse, for example). But it's true that English is extremely adaptable. It's that pliability that keeps it exciting.

Still, it jes iritatin ta sea how sum peeple treet it.

[tinybear]

Hi ya, Nono! How ya doin'?

[Nono]

Jes hangin in theah lak a haaaiiir on a biscuit.
Yo'sef?

[tinybear]

Nuthin' much going on my end, Nono. Ruffled a few feathers, waitin' for dinner...ya know...the usual stuff. :)