Smoking

[tinybear]

LA is not 'grim'. Shanghai and Hong Kong are far worse!

[G. Adams]

We Middlesbrough born arn't called smog monsters for nothing ye know? We have the largest concentration of industry anywhere in Europe. If I go up the hills some time soon I will take a picture of it all, miles and miles of steel and chemical factories, pumping out fumes. Makes me all nostalgic thinking about it.

[Matt W]

*laughs*

Went for a walk up the coast just south of the terminal with a friend...I was absolutely gobsmacked at how scarred the landscape looked. Scary stuff.

[Osborn F Enready]

They have the right to control the quality of air they breathe ON PUBLICLY OWNED PROPERTY THAT IS FOR PUBLIC USE, and on their own PRIVATE PROPERTY whether for public or private use. If they want more control than that, call them the Nazis they are.... lol

[tinybear]

Who's "they"?

[Osborn F Enready]

Tinybear asked:
Who's "they"?

I say:
I was responding to this comment, and forgot to link it, I apologize.

(by Matt W)
I've been there, and yes, it's grim. I'm in full agreement about the hypocrisy of many anti-smoking campaigners - but for some - and those who don't live in LA - it is genuinely about ensuring quality of air and extending their lifespan.

My reply was:
They have the right to control the quality of air they breathe ON PUBLICLY OWNED PROPERTY THAT IS FOR PUBLIC USE, and on their own PRIVATE PROPERTY whether for public or private use. If they want more control than that, call them the Nazis they are.... lol

Didn't see there was another page of posts, my fault, and thanks for pointing that out Tinybear.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Imudman No, the thing that gets people riled up is, if they don't smoke, that they don't think anyone should either.

Its not like that, if you are saying they/we are spiteful. No, its just that we would like to have the choice of smoking or not. But, if you choose to smoke near me, or even before I get there......You have made my decision to smoke for me. I cant just stop breathing. Is that what smokers want? For non-smokers to die/stop breathing, from cancer or emphasema; because smokers are spiteful or jealous of those who can choose?

[Imudman]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Its not like that, if you are saying they/we are spiteful. No, its just that we would like to have the choice of smoking or not. But, if you choose to smoke near me, or even before I get there......You have made my decision to smoke for me. I cant just stop breathing. Is that what smokers want? For non-smokers to die/stop breathing, from cancer or emphasema; because smokers are spiteful or jealous of those who can choose?

I don't think non-smokers are spiteful. Far from it. At least, no more spiteful than anyone else. But I am pointing out the hypocrisy exhibited by smoking-banners when they use their A/C in the summer. It's hard to claim smoking bans are for clearing the air when they're busy polluting it worse than any cigarette.

You bring up an interesting point. You say the smoking bans are about choice; that before the ban you weren't given the choice on whether to smoke. I'll momentarily concede the point and add that being denied the choice to breathe clean air doesn't seem fair. But have you considered that by voting to make it unlawful to allow smoking on private property, you've also forced your way into another person's private affairs?

You denied that person the right to use his own property to it's highest and best use. Before the ban, you had the right to frequent places of business that didn't allow smoking. Now, you still have that right (in spades), but that poor business owner no longer enjoys the same rights he had before.

Now don't tell me it's about health, because unless you walk everywhere and sweat in the summer, I know you're polluting the air just as much as anyone. The only rational argument you have in your defense is you voted to ban smoking because you could. At least that defense is honest...

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Imudman But have you considered that by voting to make it unlawful to allow smoking on private property, you've also forced your way into another person's private affairs?

I havent voted for any smoking legislation, but I would allow smokers to smoke on their own property. On one condition. Outlaw smoking within 50 or 75 feet of kids under 18 years old. Make it an assault charge and Child abuse if convicted.

Quote by: Imudman but that poor business owner no longer enjoys the same rights he had before.

I understand business improved for restraunts, because those who definitely wouldnt eat in smokey rooms will go out now.

Quote by: Imudman Now don't tell me it's about health, because unless you walk everywhere and sweat in the summer, I know you're polluting the air just as much as anyone. The only rational argument you have in your defense is you voted to ban smoking because you could. At least that defense is honest...

True, in fact everything has detrimental effects. Just living costs the lives of others. If you plow a field worms are cut in half. If you drink Coke, you are supporting a company that takes water from drought victims in India and outright murder and kidnappings in South America. Nike tennis shoes= child slave labor. I try to vote with my money, but I am not a puritan. I have been making progress and make no claims to perfection. Even if I were to ride a bicycle, there has been exploitation and injury in its manufacture, including pollution.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Matt W Indeed, but you're far more likely to be causing an individual to get lung cancer rather than contributing to the overall decline of the planet. That's what gets people riled up.

What about those who come into contact fecal coliform, say on the beach, and become ill, or even die?


People who throw batteries into landfills cause far more, far greater pollution. This type of pollution can cause problems for generations of people until the toxic waste is removed to another location.


So do we pass legislation that would outlaw pooping, and battery powered appliances because I think these types of pollution are more damaging to the human condition?


Perhaps outlawing smoking is more akin to outlawing ghosts. Something that is just not possible in a free society.

[ibm]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel I havent voted for any smoking legislation, but I would allow smokers to smoke on their own property. On one condition. Outlaw smoking within 50 or 75 feet of kids under 18 years old. Make it an assault charge and Child abuse if convicted. ...

how long does it take to smoke a cigarette? say 5 minutes? so while i am having my puffs and enjoying it, a 10-year-old suddenly runs into within 50 feet of the vicinity – does that mean i should be executed?

how do you allow me to smoke at my own house but keep out 50 feet from children? my back porch is less than 50-feet away from my neighbor’s backyard, where their young kids play all the time.

and what is it that we have to draw a magic line at say 18? say you had a birthday party yesterday celebrating your 18th anniversary of being in this world, what makes you THAT different today from yesterday? what made smoking so harmful to you yesterday doesn’t any more a day later today?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: ibm how do you allow me to smoke at my own house but keep out 50 feet from children? my back porch is less than 50-feet away from my neighbor’s backyard, where their young kids play all the time.

Who is making you smoke? If you have kids you should have maternal/paternal instincts that FORCE you to protect them with your life. If you dont have that, you may need to seek help. Why should your selfish addiction be more compelling than your care for the well being of children? That shows you how strong the drugs are that they are packaging.

Quote by: ibm and what is it that we have to draw a magic line at say 18?

Its no longer child abuse after they turn 18.

[ibm]

daniel, i'm not talking about if it's "right" or "wrong" to smoke and affect children (and fyi, i don't smoke). i was just asking, how practical you think your proposal was?

Quote by: Chris the Chees I hate smoking, I only smoke when I'm drinking. I hate it at any other time, but when your having a pint, its nice to have a smoke. Today when I was out, I had three, and I have decided that I now hate it. My fingers reek and my chest feals very constricted and everything feals claoustrophobic. For a five minute high of relaxation, I feal like bad for about six hours. I write this now, because I have been drinking and smoking, and I feel bad because of it. Advise for younger members, its not worth it. I'm not talking about addiction, or anthing like that. Just smoking in general.

I hate it.

My parents both smoked. I never have. In fact, I vowed as a child to NEVER be with a woman who smoked and am happy to say that my little head only went against me once on that vow...

[Cephus]

Quote by: Milton Bradley So do we pass legislation that would outlaw pooping, and battery powered appliances because I think these types of pollution are more damaging to the human condition?

We already have legislation outlawing public defecation and in most areas, there are plenty of things that you are not allowed to throw away, they need to be separated into a special trash can and are handled separately.

Perhaps outlawing smoking is more akin to outlawing ghosts. Something that is just not possible in a free society.

But nobody is trying to outlaw smoking, they are just expecting smokers to be responsible with their habit. Smokers should not be permitted to smoke where it affects others, just as smokers should not be permitted to litter. Those would seem to be common sense, but you still find irresponsible louts blowing smoke at non-smokers and cigarette butts all over the place.

Maybe if smokers were a bit more responsible on their own, they wouldn't find their activities being legislated.

[Cephus]

Quote by: TheStripey1 My parents both smoked. I never have. In fact, I vowed as a child to NEVER be with a woman who smoked and am happy to say that my little head only went against me once on that vow...

Mine both did too, at least for a little while. Both of them stopped smoking when I was younger though, more than 30 years ago now. Even though they were tobbacco-free for that long, my father still died of lung cancer.

And I agree with you. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't give a damn about yourself, how could I expect you to give a damn about me? None of my friends smoke and my wife has never smoked. It's a stupid, disgusting habit that only idiots engage in.

Only a couple of my friends smoke, Cephus, but NEVER do they light up in my house nor in my car should we be driving somewhere together... My wife of 19 years is not now nor has she ever been a smoker either...

I think we should raise the tax on tobacco 10000%.

Let the smokers pay for all the cleanup and medical expenses garnered by smoking that evil weed...

[Imudman]

Quote by: TheStripey1 Only a couple of my friends smoke, Cephus, but NEVER do they light up in my house nor in my car should we be driving somewhere together... My wife of 19 years is not now nor has she ever been a smoker either... I think we should raise the tax on tobacco 10000%. Let the smokers pay for all the cleanup and medical expenses garnered by smoking that evil weed...

How do you know smokers cost you any money at all in medical expenses...?

Quote by: Imudman How do you know smokers cost you any money at all in medical expenses...?

Prove they don't...

[Imudman]

Quote by: TheStripey1 Prove they don't...

That's weak. You're the one who made the assertion that smokers cost you money. But here's some food for thought: If smoking shortens lifespans, then maybe smokers actually cost you less in the long run...