You and Your Politics

[G. Adams]

I thought we'd get a better idea of what the members politics are, how you got where you are etc. I know we've done this in the get to know you in general discussion, but here you can put some more depth in, and if you held back on the extent of your beliefs in case other members would naturally set themselves against you without reading your posts properly, now's the time to give a more lucid account.

My politics have evolved over a fair few years now. Up till about 13 I was quite the heavy nationalist, and without knowing what fascism was, was actually quite close to one. Not a racial superiorist, but certainly I was quite deluded in my belief of British superiority and the need to regiment our country, and eventually the world, in a military fashion. Thank god I changed.

I then did quite swing to popular liberalism, and stayed that way till I was about 15. Not particularly interesting bit of my political life...

Around the summer of my 15, this'll be 2000, my politics took a massive leftwards shift. Within the space of about 6 months, I moved from liberal, to democratic socialist, then to hardline communist. The only way I could see for humanity to progress from the shithole we're in now was to use the machinary of the state to the benefit of the people. Unfortunately I was so wrapped up the ideas to presented to me I didn't see the flaw of power affecting people once in power.

Not long after I moved onto Volconvo, this is way back when Volconvo started, I was arguing with Geoff, a member sadly long since gone, who actually changed my perception on politics. Pretty much within the space of that week I had gone from ardent statist communist to an anarcho communist.

Since then I've been developing my opinions and working on how to get my society into the real world. The best I can think of is actually encouraging laisses faire capitalism around the world to it's fullest, most brutal extent. In such a situation the wider public will see how devestating capitalism is, and how it needs to be toppled. I really dislike this plan however, it galls my principles of honesty, and besides, I don't want to be remembered by history as the asshole everyone was revolting against.

[Gorgo]

Did you see Gordon Bigelow's article called, Let There Be Markets, in the May 2005 Harper's?

I think I'm a leftist primarily because of my skepticism. Not because communism and socialism is traditionally atheistic, but because there's a reason that they're atheistic. Because capitalism and religion and war are based on some of the same lies.

I've never voted for a Presidential candidate that won since Nixon. I've voted for Ron Paul (Libertarian) Gus Hall (Communist), Ralph Nader (Green), probably a socialist candidate or two, and I don't remember who else. I compromised this time and campaigned for Kucinich and voted for Kerry. Not sure that was a good idea.

[Pooeypants]

I have a very basic grasp of politics to be honest. As a matter of fact, I didn't quite grasp what "Left" and "right" was till a couple of years...

[Gorgo]

Quote by: Pooeypants , I didn't quite grasp what "Left" and "right" was till a couple of years...

I still don't, really.

[Matt W]

My politics...are difficult to define. In general, I take a fairly 'liberal' stance - in that I believe the government does have a role to play in society, and a resonsibility to its' citizens.

In contrast, I have a fairly blunt view of crime and the perpetrators of crimes...but I'm getting better!

[ericsp23]

My affinity for the Left came naturally to me. I do not recall ever being exposed to any kind of indoctrination growing up. I grew up in Texas, and, while my mother is fairly liberal, my father is a conservative. I do not recall politics ever really being a topic of conversation when I was growing up. When I learned about what Liberalism and Conservatism meant in high school, i couldn't even concieve of the idea that there were people who seriously believed in conservatism. I was very dismayed to find that I was actually in a very small minority.
There was a time when I was much more of a Leftist than I am now. I was an active partcipant in the Young Democrats when I was in college (before you scoff keep in mind this was at Texas Christian Universiy where it was the only political organization present that was not conservative, so pretty much every progressive minded person on campus was involved in it) and I was also a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. I was a very strong believer in socialism.
Since then my pragmatic side has grown and I have become more of a moderate. Its not that I've abandoned my ideals, its just that I do not see any real chance that they will be realized in my lifetime, so instead I've decided to focus on things that are obtainable. By taking baby steps I think we can get closer and closer to realizing our ultimate goals for society.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: ericsp23 I do not see any real chance that they will be realized in my lifetime

Don't you think that's largely true because so many people have given it up as a lost cause?

[ericsp23]

I think it is because leftist ideologies have lost legitimacy among the general population. The world Liberal has become a dirty word in America. I do not think we will ever regain legitimacy until we can prove to the people that we are not all wild eyed extremists. By tackling issues that we do have some popular support on and there is some chance of success we can raise our legitimacy and be taken seriously by a larger portion of the public.

[Gorgo]

I wonder it's a matter of education, rather than changing the goal.

[Libertarian]

Sadly, all my life is, is politics. This might lower my creditablity, but I am a high school debator. All we talk about is politics. Debate is life, the rest is just prep time. That is how I live my life. As for how I am politically, far left almost off the edge.

[cheesenuggett]

i am very liberal, to the point of socialism, but not to communism

i also do not like violence, so i do not support the statement of karl marx saying that bloodshed is the only way to change(mightve been lenin) so im a hippy socialist who wants everyone to strive for non-violence and world peace... unrealistic? maybe. but noble nonetheless

[Gorgo]

Noble nonetheless. I'm with you.

[G. Adams]

I agree that it is noble to achieve your goals though a peaceful manner, and I would agree that if your in a democratic country, or in a country where peaceful means are an option they should always be chosen over violence. But as I see it, left wing movements are only tolerated up to a point. Once it achieves some sort of critical mass, the government starts becoming very authoritarian and stamping down on the left, and a slice of the population starts turning to the extreme right, as they feel the mainstream government isn't hard enough.

So the question is, when the government declares war on the left, how do you resist peacefully?

[Libertarian]

Well, we must work through the tough parts and show what the government is really doing. The civil rights movement took peace and succeeded. They had success b/c they were determined to get the goal of equality. And they achived it. Without war and without violence. Many people back than were more peaceful than we are now. But there was a lot of violance against them, but they won by not fighting. In the end, they showed that they had more morals about them than even the politions in DC did.

[cheesenuggett]

i really admire the civil rights movement, and the indian independence movement, i think peaceful demonstrations work better with more oppresion and power and resentment towards it, the rest of the world starts seeing the injustices and pick a side... its great

[G. Adams]

The thing is, the civil rights movement didn't threaten the positions of those in power. A left-wing movement does, and peaceful left actions are met by violence. The anti-globalisation protests in Genoa resulted in 1 death and many casualties, in Britain our May Day festival means being sheparded into a corner and squashed up for 16 hours by police. Where is the right of protest there? When we had the 1984 miners strikes, the police beat to the ground old men, war veterans even. MI5 compiled blacklists of left-wingers and trade unionists which it distributed to big business, telling them not to allow these people a job. With no job, no money, and the prominent voices of the left were no longer able to travel and speak. Where is the right to organise?

These are only small scale, too. If governments seriously thought the population would vote in a radical left wing party, it would use every tool at it's disposal to stop it.

[cheesenuggett]

Quote by: G. Adams The thing is, the civil rights movement didn't threaten the positions of those in power. A left-wing movement does, and peaceful left actions are met by violence. The anti-globalisation protests in Genoa resulted in 1 death and many casualties, in Britain our May Day festival means being sheparded into a corner and squashed up for 16 hours by police. Where is the right of protest there? When we had the 1984 miners strikes, the police beat to the ground old men, war veterans even. MI5 compiled blacklists of left-wingers and trade unionists which it distributed to big business, telling them not to allow these people a job. With no job, no money, and the prominent voices of the left were no longer able to travel and speak. Where is the right to organise? These are only small scale, too. If governments seriously thought the population would vote in a radical left wing party, it would use every tool at it's disposal to stop it.

i still have alot to learn, still a freshman, though thank you for enlightening me

[Gorgo]

Quote by: Libertarian The civil rights movement took peace and succeeded.

But did they really do it without people getting a chance to glimpse the alternatives, such as the Black Panthers and the Nation of Islam? I think a lot of people saw that they'd better give at least a token nod to leftists like MLK, Jr. to avoid a total race war.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: cheesenuggett i still have alot to learn, still a freshman, though thank you for enlightening me

Don't worry, I was still idealistic and pacifist when I was your age (3 years ago...). Now I'm a bitter and twisted old man, turning into what Pooey always thought I was.

[Catch 22]

peace works only if it is peace via radical direct action. The civil rights movement succeeded not because of MLK. As malcolm X said he was a "housenigger" (that is until his later vietnam days when MLK was a kickass socialist, hence my sig). The civil rights mvoement worked becuase white folks understood that they'd be fucked if they didn't start giving back concessions. The real shame is what the civil right's movement could have done. For exmaple what could have happened if the march IN washington became a march ON Washington. Millions of activists reigning chaos on the city would get you some conccessions pretty fucking quick.