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MarkW · Apr 27, 2005, 04:48 pm

I have heard Evangelist Billy Graham say that he has never met a foxhole atheist before. He might be right. Hardened men scream for God's mercy on the deathbed (just in case He IS for real). The problem is that people try to protect their sinful lives until the last minute.

Check out this essay on this subject and comment further:

http://www.markwynne.org/Sermon1.htm

tman_ndsu08 · Apr 27, 2005, 06:06 pm

Chirstianity is based entirely on faith. If you believe that god exists without proof, then you're a christian.

Gorgo · Apr 27, 2005, 07:55 pm

There are lots of atheists in foxholes, of course.

I don't have to "believe" you have a wife. If it doesn't cost me anything, I can just listen to you tell me that and nod. If I have an occasion where it is important for me to find out if you're telling the truth, then I can request that proof. There is no reason for me to 'believe' it at all.

Jesus probably never existed.

The rest, of course, is more of the same nonsense.

Gorgo · Apr 28, 2005, 07:02 am

Boiler Room. No intent to discuss. Nothing to back up what he says.

MerlinsByte · Apr 28, 2005, 07:23 am

Quote:

Boiler Room. No intent to discuss. Nothing to back up what he says.

I thought this was the a thread (in the) philosophy and religion forum Gorgo...your intent is noted.

Quote:

Chirstianity is based entirely on faith. If you believe that god exists without proof, then you're a christian.

Tman evolution is a theory. To believe in any theory it takes some faith, as well. Some aspects of the theory may be fact but the theory in whole demands faith, just as atheism does.

mb

Gorgo · Apr 28, 2005, 07:42 am

Quote:

Quote by: MerlinsByte

Tman evolution is a theory

Evolution is a fact. There are theories of evolution to explain how it works, but there is little doubt that it exists. It is not a matter of 'faith.' I have no 'faith' or 'belief' that it exists. I think it exists based on the evidence that I see.

I have no 'faith' or 'belief' that gravity exists. I throw something up and it comes down regardless of what I believe or have faith in.

Atheism is the opposite of faith. Atheism is a lack of belief. There is no faith needed to not have a faith.

**Matt W** · Apr 28, 2005, 08:07 am

Quote:

I thought this was the a therad philosophy and religion forum

It is, but promotion of one's own site is technically a Boiler Room thing. I'll check...

MerlinsByte · Apr 28, 2005, 08:13 am

Quote:

by gorgo Evolution is a fact.

Merlin writes... I did post that there may be facts in the (faith) theory of evolution if you don’t believe me, the creationist, believe one of your faiths leading proponents and imminent evolutionary biologists and professor at Harvard University….
.
Mr Gould writes...“Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things.
Stephen J. Gould evolutionary biologist Harvard “

Quote:

... by gorgo......... there are theories of evolution to explain how it works, but there is little doubt that it exists.

Merlin writes…that would depend on whom you ask, (if it evou. exists.). I doubt the theroy is correct.

Quote:

by gorgo I think it (evolution… mb) exists based on the evidence that I see.

merlin writes...I think god and intellegent design exists based on what I see. This does not mean that you are 100% wrong, or that I am 100% right.

Quote:

by gorgo… Atheism is the opposite of faith. Atheism is a lack of belief. There is no faith needed to not have a faith.

Merlin writes…One needs faith to believe that there is a god or that there is no god , or to believe in nothing at all.

None of these ideas have been shown as factual. Therefore one must have faith to be a atheist.(or damn near anything else)

mb

Gorgo · Apr 28, 2005, 08:46 am

Quote:

Quote by: MerlinsByte

merlin writes...I think god and intellegent design exists based on what I see. This does not mean that you are 100% wrong, or that I am 100% right.

No. It means that there is no reasonable evidence for either, so all that you have is a flight of fantasy. Does that mean that the present theories of evolution are 100% correct? No. But evolution is a fact. Some theories of evolution require further study.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/gen99291.htm

http://evonet.sdsc.edu/evoscisociety.../biologys1.htm

Gorgo · Apr 28, 2005, 09:03 am

Quote:

Quote by: MerlinsByte

Merlin writes…One needs faith to believe that there is a god or that there is no god , or to believe in nothing at all.

From the definitions below, what I gather you're saying is that in order to be an atheist, which means lack of theism, which means lack of belief in god, one needs a belief. What would that belief be? Atheism is lack of faith. Lack of belief. It's true that some atheists may have beliefs. It may be true that I have some beliefs. However, fantasy is not my goal. If I find a belief, I try to lose it. That's the difference.

7 entries found for faith.
faith ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth)
n.
Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
A set of principles or beliefs.

be·lief ( P ) Pronunciation Key (b-lf)
n.
The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

Gorgo · Apr 28, 2005, 09:10 am

Unless you're talking between Christians, for instance, any religion topic falls into one of the following categories. There is no proof for religion, so it would fall into the same type of thinking as conspiracy theory.

Conspiracies
Rants
Topics that would be hard pressed to follow the rules.
Any miscellaneous debate topic

Certainly, the type of topic this is is one that belongs because it's only intent is to insult atheists with no basis in fact. eg, atheists are immoral, etc. There are no atheists in foxholes, so therefore they don't have moral courage,etc . Nonsense. If he had something to back up that statement, it might be a reasonable idea, but of course it's a obvious lie. Add that to the fact that he appears to just be a spammer, well.....

Imagine how I would be said to be "provoking" if I put up a thread that says that all Christians are immoral, or there are no Christians in foxholes.

Mr.Vicchio · Apr 28, 2005, 10:23 am

Gorgo, to lump any religious conversation into the piles you have, is.. trolling. You say that to piss people off.

Why?

Do you really feel that insecure with religious discussion, or do you feel that you have a right as an "enlightenned" individual to piss on religion, and religious believers?

ONE more question, since you feel there is no proof, or fact behind religion, and that it's diuscussion is not worthy of anything more then boiler room...

Why do you bother posting in religious threads?

If I were you, I would never post in one, since it's all BS to you anyway, the only reason you do is top piss people off fto stoke your own ego.

Gorgo · Apr 28, 2005, 10:47 am

All good questions, Mr. Vicchio, and you're right, the point of what I was saying was not to put all religious discussion into the Boiler room. The point was to challenge the idea that the moderators are somehow going to be in charge of deciding whether or not someone's sources are reasonable, or that their claims are reasonable.

The second point was that this thread does belong in the boiler room because it is a lie to say that there are no atheists in foxholes, and it is only meant to insult those atheists who have been in foxholes. Not to mention the fact that it is just lying spam.

As to whether I do something to piss people off is immaterial. Angry people look for things to be pissed off about, I don't "piss them off." Their mental state is their decision. I do not insult people, and if I do say something that someone thinks is offensive, I try to clarify why it was not an attack.

I post in religious threads because I think lies are unhealthy and dangerous.

Hope that helps you out.

**Matt W** · Apr 28, 2005, 10:50 am

Thread now moved. Enjoy.

Mr.Vicchio · Apr 28, 2005, 11:00 am

You think lies are unhealthy and dangerous, your the one spewing lies. Do everyone a favor, stay out of threads you aren't there to deabte but rather piss on others.

You do it because it gets you off, nothing more.

Gorgo · Apr 28, 2005, 11:10 am

Quote:

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio

You think lies are unhealthy and dangerous, your the one spewing lies. Do everyone a favor, stay out of threads you aren't there to deabte but rather piss on others.

Thank you for your well-considered opinion.

This illustrates the "negativity" issue as regards the boiler room. Just because a moderator, who may be wrong, decides that someone does not have a good source or don't agree with the ideas presented, they're then subject to people filling up their thread with idiotic remarks.

MerlinsByte · Apr 28, 2005, 02:23 pm

It seems that you have landed (unfairly) in pit, my friend with, a some toothless lions or should that be chickens? I have no further comment due to censorship of a member.

mb

I pefer my chicken fried or baked.

MerlinsByte · Apr 29, 2005, 06:36 am

Quote:

Thread now moved. Enjoy.

Merlin.....I think I'm dipping into my religious sacrament moved from where to where, Matt?

mb

Gorgo · Apr 29, 2005, 06:44 am

From religion to the Boiler room.

MerlinsByte · Apr 29, 2005, 07:10 am

Arrrrrrahhh! ; } >

See how we Christians are persecuted! just like scripture says.Ok, as I said these lions are toothless here. (the rabid Christian haters).

We christians (1) have it easy today, why? In end of days (space time) which we are quickly approaching , we christians will pay in blood (die) for refusing to worship the leader of the one world goverment aka the beast. I think these toothless lions. This satanic anger, and disillusional paranoia that erupts from the mouths of Christian haters like putrid entrails are a preview of what's to come.

Testing moderator level 1 2 3 .... I do hope that this is a low moderated forum .

notes
1...... I am an open thiest christian

Apr 27, 2005, 04:48 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
MarkW Sedimentary Rock Posts: 1	Foxhole atheists I have heard Evangelist Billy Graham say that he has never met a foxhole atheist before. He might be right. Hardened men scream for God's mercy on the deathbed (just in case He IS for real). The problem is that people try to protect their sinful lives until the last minute. Check out this essay on this subject and comment further: http://www.markwynne.org/Sermon1.htm

Apr 28, 2005, 10:23 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	Gorgo, to lump any religious conversation into the piles you have, is.. trolling. You say that to piss people off. Why? Do you really feel that insecure with religious discussion, or do you feel that you have a right as an "enlightenned" individual to piss on religion, and religious believers? ONE more question, since you feel there is no proof, or fact behind religion, and that it's diuscussion is not worthy of anything more then boiler room... Why do you bother posting in religious threads? If I were you, I would never post in one, since it's all BS to you anyway, the only reason you do is top piss people off fto stoke your own ego. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Apr 28, 2005, 10:50 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,193	Thread now moved. Enjoy. I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Apr 28, 2005, 11:00 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	You think lies are unhealthy and dangerous, your the one spewing lies. Do everyone a favor, stay out of threads you aren't there to deabte but rather piss on others. You do it because it gets you off, nothing more. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Apr 28, 2005, 02:23 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
MerlinsByte BANNED Posts: 1,267	boiled It seems that you have landed (unfairly) in pit, my friend with, a some toothless lions or should that be chickens? I have no further comment due to censorship of a member. mb I pefer my chicken fried or baked. Last edited by MerlinsByte; Apr 28, 2005 at 02:43 pm.

Apr 27, 2005, 06:06 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Chirstianity is based entirely on faith. If you believe that god exists without proof, then you're a christian.

Apr 27, 2005, 07:55 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	There are lots of atheists in foxholes, of course. I don't have to "believe" you have a wife. If it doesn't cost me anything, I can just listen to you tell me that and nod. If I have an occasion where it is important for me to find out if you're telling the truth, then I can request that proof. There is no reason for me to 'believe' it at all. Jesus probably never existed. The rest, of course, is more of the same nonsense.

Apr 28, 2005, 07:02 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	Boiler Room. No intent to discuss. Nothing to back up what he says.

Apr 28, 2005, 09:10 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	Unless you're talking between Christians, for instance, any religion topic falls into one of the following categories. There is no proof for religion, so it would fall into the same type of thinking as conspiracy theory. Conspiracies Rants Topics that would be hard pressed to follow the rules. Any miscellaneous debate topic Certainly, the type of topic this is is one that belongs because it's only intent is to insult atheists with no basis in fact. eg, atheists are immoral, etc. There are no atheists in foxholes, so therefore they don't have moral courage,etc . Nonsense. If he had something to back up that statement, it might be a reasonable idea, but of course it's a obvious lie. Add that to the fact that he appears to just be a spammer, well..... Imagine how I would be said to be "provoking" if I put up a thread that says that all Christians are immoral, or there are no Christians in foxholes.

Apr 28, 2005, 10:47 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	All good questions, Mr. Vicchio, and you're right, the point of what I was saying was not to put all religious discussion into the Boiler room. The point was to challenge the idea that the moderators are somehow going to be in charge of deciding whether or not someone's sources are reasonable, or that their claims are reasonable. The second point was that this thread does belong in the boiler room because it is a lie to say that there are no atheists in foxholes, and it is only meant to insult those atheists who have been in foxholes. Not to mention the fact that it is just lying spam. As to whether I do something to piss people off is immaterial. Angry people look for things to be pissed off about, I don't "piss them off." Their mental state is their decision. I do not insult people, and if I do say something that someone thinks is offensive, I try to clarify why it was not an attack. I post in religious threads because I think lies are unhealthy and dangerous. Hope that helps you out.

Apr 29, 2005, 06:44 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	From religion to the Boiler room.

Apr 29, 2005, 07:10 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
MerlinsByte BANNED Posts: 1,267	putrid entrails.... TESTING 1 2 3 Arrrrrrahhh! ; } > See how we Christians are persecuted! just like scripture says.Ok, as I said these lions are toothless here. (the rabid Christian haters). We christians (1) have it easy today, why? In end of days (space time) which we are quickly approaching , we christians will pay in blood (die) for refusing to worship the leader of the one world goverment aka the beast. I think these toothless lions. This satanic anger, and disillusional paranoia that erupts from the mouths of Christian haters like putrid entrails are a preview of what's to come. Testing moderator level 1 2 3 .... I do hope that this is a low moderated forum . notes 1...... I am an open thiest christian Last edited by MerlinsByte; Apr 29, 2005 at 07:15 am.