Chris Cheese needs a history lesson

[Mr.Vicchio]

Japan had effectively occupied Korea since 1904. In the waning days of World War II, an agreement was reached between the United States and the Soviet Union: the Soviets would occupy South Korea only as far as the 38th parallel. The United States forces that arrived in Korea were wholly unprepared for their duties in Korea, not understanding its history and relationship with Japan. To many Koreans, independence and unification were their most important goals. The United States, after much fumbling, supported Syngman Rhee, a Korean nationalist who had been exiled to the United States in 1907. The United States asked the United Nations to settle the issue of a divided Korea. Despite Soviet objections, a United Nations commission voted for elections in Korea. The communists in the South boycotted the election, and refused to allow it in the North. In the South, conservative parties allied with Rhee received a majority of the vote, in an election in which 80% of eligible Korean voters took part. Rhee became President of the newly-declared independent South Korea in October 1948. The Soviets installed Kim el Song as the leader of the North. As the United States drew down its military in the post war period, the American garrison of 40,000 quickly withered to a force of 472 officers and men who made up the Korean Military Advisory Group (KMAG). The Korean army, known as ROK, was given only light weapons. The North Korean Army, on the other hand, was heavily equipped with tanks and other armored vehicles. The communist victory in China, combined with the first Soviet nuclear tests in 1949, resulted in a new US policy of containment in Asia. The policy, called NSC 48/2, called for the containment to be primarily non-military, with economic and military aid given to non-communist regimes in Asia. On January 5, 1950, Secretary of State Dean Acheson, speaking at the National Press Club, articulated the American policy. He spoke of those countries that the US would defend with force: Japan, the Rykus islands and the Philippine Islands. Korea was left out. The withdrawal of the last American forces from Korea, as well as North Korean Kim's conviction that the US would not intervene, convinced the North Koreans to attempt to unify the country by force. The Soviets, led by Stalin, and the Chinese, led by Mao, concurred with both Kim's judgement about the United States and his plans to unify the country by force. In June, he struck. http://www.multied.com/korea/causes.html

Now Chris in another thread:

I sure all the happy little communist now enslaved would agree with you. Like I said before, drivel, only now its the dirty "reds" instead of worshipping 'old glory'. Korea... bullying? Indeed. WHAT Chris happened in Korea and how can you call it "bullying"? I need to explain to you what happened in the Korean war? Oh dear, i suggest you return to school Mr, V. You were obviously weren't paying attention in your history lessons. flaming vicchio

Now I just broke it down for ya how the Korean War began, form as unbiased a source as I could find. Perhaps you'd like to fill in the "bullying" part... which history it would seem, fails to note.

[IndieC]

Actually, most historians agree that the elections in the North were freer than those in the South. Please wait while i find a source to back this up, but that is all i have heard from both American and British history teachers or lecturers.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Whether they were or not isn't at issue. America was leaving Korea, gone adios, moved on. Let them do their own thing. Then we, according to Chris the Cheese, "bullied" them. I really want to know how the hell that happened.

Bullied? Hell, once again were reducing forces in Korea. Real bullies we are.

[IndieC]

Mmm, i wouldn't really agree with that either. i wouldn't call it bullying in Korea, but i can think of other parts of the world where it occured...

[Mr.Vicchio]

Hey I am only responding to his attempt to call me uneducated and dumb. I really hate arrogance when I know the speaker is DEAD wrong.

[PatrickHenry]

A standardized look at the outbreak of the Korean Conflict.
http://www.army.mil/CMH-PG/brochures...k/outbreak.htm

A look at the mass murder on Cheju-do Island, 1948. A huge and unsung massacre by "anti-communist" forces, a context for the liberation arguments of the Commies who invaded from the North in 1950. http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/43wh.htm

This was the jaquerie of a starving peasantry armed with little more than bamboo spears, whose sole demand was for political democracy and a little more rice. In 1948 unauthorized grain collections were five times 1947 levels. After landlords took 30% of the peasants' produce, an additional 48 to 70% was seized as government taxes or "contributions" to local officials. This was a society so poor that wooden shovels were used, because iron was so scarce. The repressive right-wing government of South Korea, ruled by Syngman Rhee, responded by fielding an all-out scorched-earth war of attrition against the peasant rebellion. Enlisting the aid of the U.S., they made Cheju-do America's first military intervention in postwar Asia, our first Vietnam. The counterinsurgency tactics employed were strikingly similar to those used in Vietnam. As a body, the peasantry, the guerrilla's' support base, was pulled out of the highlands surrounding Mount Hallasan in the center of the island, and in a move worthy of Vietnam's "Mad Dog" Samuel Huntington, placed in "strategic hamlets" (i.e., concentration/resettlement camps) along the coast. Survivors' accounts are unrelenting in their horror. According to testimony collected by Kim Chong Min, a reporter for the Cheju People's Daily, victims were stripped naked in public squares and forced to have sex, after which they were executed. Soldiers and Northwest Youth gangs forced young men to have sex with their mothers-in-law before their execution. Family members of those about to be executed were forced to watch the killing and clap their hands and shout "man-se" (Korean for "Hurray!"). Villagers were herded into open fields to watch "bucking" and "slapping" games where young women were forced to ride on their fathers-in-law, who were made to crawl on their hands and knees; young men were forced to slap their grandfathers, and vice versa. The villagers of Suh-hung-ri witnessed a woman forced to carry her son's severed head. In November 1993, the people of Buk-chon-ri published a list of their dead. Of the 412 killed, 409 were executed by the military without trial. Verified reports of massacred villages abound. By official count, 39,285 homes were destroyed. Of the island's 400 villages, only 170 remained at the end of the war, meaning half of Cheju-do's villages were wiped out. An estimated 40,000 islanders fled to Japan, where many settled in Osaka. The refugee community there keeps the memory of this evil, grisly war alive. "Killing this many civilians in wartime is a major war crime," Jung Hae Gu of the Korean Politics Research Institute wrote. "Killing this many innocent civilians in peacetime is an unforgivable crime against humanity." In a paper Prof. Cumings presented in Tokyo this year on March 14 entitled "The Question of American Responsibility for the Suppression of the Cheju-do Uprising," he wrote, "By the end of 1949, 300 of the Northwest Youth had joined the island police, and 200 were in business or local government: 'the majority have become rich and are the favored merchants.'"

[Chris the Chees]

America intervened in a war that was none of its business, simply to give the Chinese a lesson. You claim that isn't bully boy tactics? To prove that America is the biggest kid on the playground?

You really need to study international relations in the 20th century a little harder.


I also said, you needed a history lesson, any fool can use google, you have provided no evidence of study whats so ever.

In short, save your dilettante attempts at understanding history, because they aren’t fooling anybody.

[Mr.Vicchio]

You need a lesson in reality. America interviened as it always does, to stop thugs from taking freedom from others.

That you see it as just to "give the chinese a lesson" says loads about your education, I hope you didn't actually PAY for it.

[Gorgo]

Yes, America always is there to save the day, and if anyone at all is hurt, it's because America sometimes "fumbles" or it's Satan's fault and anyone that doesn't agree is a traitor and should be beat up by the Marines. Right 'v'?

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio You need a lesson in reality. America interviened as it always does, to stop thugs from taking freedom from others. That you see it as just to "give the chinese a lesson" says loads about your education, I hope you didn't actually PAY for it.

America interviened as it always does, to stop thugs from taking freedom from others.
False

I can think of plenty of examples where america has sat back and done sweet FA.

Zimbabwe, Fascist Spain, PRC, Romania, Iraq from 1968 until the 90's, Idi Amin, etc.

Hell there are more than a couple of examples where the USA has funded and supported dictatorships. Batista, General Pervez Musharraf, Stroessner to name a few. (best get on google to find out who they are, aye Mr V?)

The sad thing is you even believe the illusions you spread about America's foreign policy.

says loads about your education

yeah, it says I have one, which sets me a good deal higher than you... unless of course you count that school out side the trailor park, aye Mr V?

[Gorgo]

Quote by: Chris the Chees The sad thing is you even believe the illusions you spread about America crap.

I don't think that's possible. Even he can't believe his own crap.

You see, Chris, what happened in all those cases, is that the U.S. was fighting Satan himself, and had to try to straighten out those dictators that already existed (because of the ignorance of dark-skinned people), because if they hadn't, then Satan would have taken over the world.

[Mr.Vicchio]

That's nice Chris, what has anyone else done to free.. say 40 million poeple from tyranny over the last say 5 years?


The UN?

Oh no..

How about the EU? Anyone?

Nope.

But hey, you guys can make accusations and show the equivilent of penis envy pretty well...

Keep it up, while you guys whine, we are taking care of business.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio That's nice Chris, what has anyone else done to free.. say 40 million poeple from tyranny over the last say 5 years?

They've freed several thousand people from their lives in the last 5 years. That's about it.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio That's nice Chris, what has anyone else done to free.. say 40 million poeple from tyranny over the last say 5 years? The UN? Oh no.. How about the EU? Anyone? Nope. But hey, you guys can make accusations and show the equivilent of penis envy pretty well... Keep it up, while you guys whine, we are taking care of business.

The EU can't, the member states retain the rights to determine their own foreign policies. It would be similar to asking why NAFTA didn't intervene in East Timor.

Although I love the way you really appreciate that the UK, Spain and Italy have sent troops to your aid. Maybe we should just totally stop helping, since you couldn't give a shit anyway.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio the equivilent of penis envy pretty well...

There he is with the focus on male genitalia again. Something you to say to all us boys?

[Chris the Chees]

Thus we see the true level of Mr V's understanding of international political history... it' all down to "penis size".

say 40 million poeple from tyranny over the last say 5 years?

The more important question Mr V, is why?

Why invade, and why now? What was wrong with say, 1998? What was wrong with actually finishing the job in the first time round?

[castille]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio You need a lesson in reality. America interviened as it always does, to stop thugs from taking freedom from others.

In that case, America should have invaded the dictatorship of South Korea.

That you see it as just to "give the chinese a lesson" says loads about your education, I hope you didn't actually PAY for it.

Actually, prior to the Korean war there was talk of the US invading China. Because Washington did not recognise the PRC as the legit government, the Americans argued they were "liberating" China from the Chinese people.

[Lou Minotti]

You need a lesson in reality. America interviened as it always does, to stop thugs from taking freedom from others.

Ah yes, God's chosen US, the benevolent Santa Claus of freedom...Vicchio are you really this naive? And you think others need a history lesson. :rolleyes:

So Vicchio, what was the Pentagon's motive when they installed Pinochet? Hussein? Noriega? Mao? :rolleyes:

[G. Adams]

Saying the US installed Mao is pushing it a bit, they supported the Kuomintang more than the Communists, as I remember it.

[Logjam]

Quote by: Chris the Chees Thus we see the true level of Mr V's understanding of international political history... it' all down to "penis size".

According to Doctor Dean Adell there has been a resent world wide study concerning this lengthy question. The study was originated in Asia. It's goal was to thwart a common misconception concerning the "equipment" of men from that region. After much study it was deemed that length is not effected by race.

However it was discovered that if there is any difference between men that there was a measurable advantage to men from one area. The men with the greatest "machine"? ....... Italians...... :rolleyes: