Want to Know who Attacked ON 9/11/01?

[Nono]

Why is it so hard for most of you to accept that we don't really know a whole hell of a lot about what led to the events, but the events themselves seem pretty clear: a bunch of Islamo-fascist loonies flew a bunch of airplanes into important buildings.

How demonstrable bunglers got that far is something the Bushistas have been very reluctant to look into (Kissinger for chairman of the investigating commission anyone?). There are a host of very good unanswered questions. That they haven't been answered invites suspicion.

As for the phones, apparently there is a problem with changing receiving stations so frequently as you speed above the landscape, but I don't know that much about it.
Perhaps someone else here does.

[Blackrain]

I disagree. I think the 911 Commission did a great job. And if you take that in kind with the Sen Intel Com 911 investigation that preceded it by a year, and/or the completely independent Der Speigal investigation....yeah, we know alot about what happened, how, and why.

What really remains to be answered is what agenda or motive do some of these conspiracy theorists have when their conspiracies always go back to pres Bush?

I submit that we know most everything now.

Oh, and it wasn't that easy for the hijackers to pull off. most were singled out by airport security for further screening. The problem is that the idea of suicide hijackers was very very low on the list of realistic threats....until it happened.

Nah, if you want a conspiracy for 911 look at December 98 when the attacks were set in motion, look for why they were set in motion, and look at who was involved.

OR you could read that link I posted-which uses only non-Bush Admin sources.

[jose]

well the information on the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder of these flights can be very revealing where are they? er lost what ALL of them?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Blackrain Oh, and the investment banking thing....the 911 Commission looked into it and found it to be baseless. Check their footnotes, or if you'd like I can cite the reference for you

I have a copy of the 911 Ommissioners Report.
What page is that on?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Blackrain Man, you'll jump in on the conspiracy theory that the CIA-acting in accordance with the secret intel alliance umbrella Echelon (an intel sharing agreement between the US/UK/Australia and New Zealand) conspired with investment bankers to take down the two towers and attack DC

I am not jumping on that CT. I am asking why we dont know who bought the Put Options. It isnt confidential information. Except in this case.

[Blackrain]

Jose, the flt93 recorder was recovered, and some of its transcript is in the 911 report.

The thing about the investment banking is in the footnotes. I'll look for it :)

[Blackrain]

here it is

There also have been claims that al Qaeda financed itself through manipulation of the stock market based on its advance knowledge of the 9/11 attacks. Exhaustive investigations by the Securities and Exchange Commission, FBI, and other agencies have uncovered no evidence that anyone with advance knowledge of the attacks profited through securities transactions.130 -911 pt pg172

footnote 130 130. Highly publicized allegations of insider trading in advance of 9/11 generally rest on reports of unusual pre-9/11 trading activity in companies whose stock plummeted after the attacks. Some unusual trading did in fact occur, but each such trade proved to have an innocuous explanation. For example, the volume of put options— investments that pay off only when a stock drops in price—surged in the parent companies of United Airlines on September 6 and American Airlines on September 10—highly suspicious trading on its face.Yet, further investigation has revealed that the trading had no connection with 9/11.A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly,much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades.These examples typify the evidence examined by the investigation.The SEC and the FBI, aided by other agencies and the securities industry, devoted enormous resources to investigating this issue, including securing the cooperation of many foreign governments.These investigators have found that the apparently suspicious consistently proved innocuous. Joseph Cella interview (Sept. 16, 2003; May 7, 2004; May 10–11, 2004); FBI briefing (Aug. 15, 2003); SEC memo,Division of Enforcement to SEC Chair and Commissioners,“Pre-September 11, 2001 Trading Review,”May 15, 2002; Ken Breen interview (Apr. 23, 2004); Ed G. interview (Feb. 3, 2004).

[Nono]

Is it true that no flight recorders were recovered from the WTC rubble? (Not that they would probably reveal much, but their absence, if such is the case, would be a bit fishy.)

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid And yes, cell phones DO work on airplanes. I know this for a fact.

I dont want to get too far off track, but everything I have seen says otherwise. Especially at 35,000 feet.

911 Research Canadian scientist A.K. Dewdney concludes in the article Ghostriders in the Sky that cellphone calls could not be made reliably if at all from Flight 93. **He conducted experiments with cell phones to show that cell phones seldom work above 10,000 feet. Several of the alleged Flight 93 calls were made when the plane would still have been near its cruising altitude of 35,000 feet. **Below 10,000 feet, according to Dewdney, cell phone calls made from a jet would cause problematic "cascades" in networks of cellsites on the ground. 1 Cascading is caused by a phone at several thousand feet of elevation being unable to distinguish which of several cellsites has the strongest signal. This causes the phone to repeatedly select a new channel and try again, possibly leading to a network-wide breakdown. No such cascades were reported on September 11th.

[Dieval]

Is anyone really sure that they used a cell phone to make the calls? They do have phones on some airplanes that aren't cell phones....you know, the ones they charge $10.00 a minute to use...how exactly do we know they people on the planes didn't use these?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Dieval Is anyone really sure that they used a cell phone to make the calls?

Yes, they were cell phone calls, if you believe the official fairy tale.

BlackRain; Your quote does not really answer my question, they just white washed it.

Quote by: Blackrain Oh, and the investment banking thing....the 911 Commission looked into it and found it to be baseless. Check their footnotes, or if you'd like I can cite the reference for you

You gave me this:

Quote by: 911 Comission A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10.

My question remains:Who was it? I dont expect it to be, nor do I care if its al Qaida. I want to know who it was. Does al Qaida do a lot of Wall Street trading? I want to know if it was some religious fundamentalist like Tim McVeigh or Tom Delay. Whoever it was may have had some influence, or known that a stand down would be ordered to facillitate a terror attack.
I want answers, something the "Comission" was PAID to do. Millions of taxpayer dollars went into that little Fiction "911 Comission Report" which failed to ask the most important questions. We got perjurury from Rice and Rumsfeld, and the puppet show (Bush/Cheney) was the picture of cowardice. Closed door, unsworn and unpublished. Sounds more like a poker game.

As for the 911 Comission Report, they left a few other "minor" details out:
Lets Roll! 911

OMISSIONS *The Report fails to acknowledge that no steel frame high-rise building has ever collapsed due to fires. *The Report fails to mention the total collapse of 47-story steel-frame skyscraper Building 7 at 5:20 on the day of the attack. *The Report contains no mention of the interview in which the owner of Building 7 states that he and the Fire Department decided to "pull" Building 7 -- an apparent admission of a conspiracy to destroy the building and its contents. *The Report fails to mention the rapid removal and recycling of the structural steel from the collapsed World Trade Center buildings, even to make excuses for it. *The Report makes no mention of a statement by then-Mayor Rudolf Giuliani to Peter Jennings indicating he had foreknowledge of the collapses: "We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse, and it did collapse before we could get out of the building." *The Report contains no mentions of eyewitness accounts of explosions preceding the collapse of South Towers. *The Report fails to mention that George W. Bush's brother, Marvin Bush, and his cousin, Wirt Walker III, were principals in the company that had the contract to provide security for the World Trade Center, Stratesec, nor does it mention the company. *The Report makes no mention of the fact that a new lessor took control of the World Trade Center complex just six weeks before the attack, obtained an insurance policy covering terrorist attacks, and successfully sued the insurance companies to obtain twice the multi-billion-dollar value of the policy. *The Report repeats the list of 19 suspects identified by the FBI within days of the attack, while failing to mention that six of them reported themselves alive after the attack. *The Report fails to mention any of the reports of behavior by the alleged hijackers before the attack that belie the official story that they were devout Muslims on a suicide mission for Allah. *The Report fails to mention that the published passenger lists contained no Arab names -- a fact publicized by skeptics of the official story. *The Report fails to ask why the plane that crashed into the Pentagon was not stopped by anti-aircraft missile batteries that presumably ring the building. *The Report fails to mention that no credible footage of the Pentagon attack has been made public, despite public knowledge that the FBI seized footage of the attack from nearby businesses. *The Report does not ask why the Secret Service did not obtain air cover for the President's motorcade from the Sarasota school to the airport, nor for Air Force One, which took off at about 9:54, until about 11:10. *The Report avoids mentioning several reports that government officials and business leaders received warnings and avoided targets of the attacks, including: A warning by the FBI advising Attorney General John Ashcroft to avoid flying on commercial airlines. *The Report that Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans the evening before the attack. *The cancellation of plans by Arial Sharon to attend an event in New York City on 9/11/01. *A warning to San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown to avoid flying. *The grounding of Salman Rushdie by Scotland Yard. *The Report avoids mentioning a warning received by employees of Odigo hours before the attack. *The Report does not mention that letters with weaponized anthrax were sent to the two most powerful senators attempting to slow the passage of the 9/11/01 attack-predicated USA PATRIOT Act. *The Report states that the Commission was "chartered to prepare a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness for and the immediate response to the attacks," but fails to mention that it makes no attempt to meet its charter.

Those were some of the OMISSIONS we know about.
From the same link, here are just a couple of the LIES:

Lies The Report's Notes state: "the interior core of the [Twin Towers] was a hollow steel shaft, in which the elevators and stairwells were grouped." In fact, core structures were comprised of bundles steel columns numbering 47 and having outside dimensions of 16 by 36 inches. The Report states that the "South Tower collapsed in ten seconds," when it actually took about 15 seconds. While one might expect that the Commission would overstate rather than understate the collapse time, the fact that the Commission did not even consider that a collapse time within 1 second of the vacuum free-fall time of 9.2 seconds a problem for the official explanation is evidence that the Commission would endorse that explanation no matter what the facts. Regarding the failure to move George W. Bush from the known location of the Sarasota classroom, the Report states that "No one in the traveling party had any information during this time that other aircraft were hijacked or missing." Yet, according to evidence assembled by David Griffin, the Secret Service has open lines to the FAA, which thought that as many as 11 planes had been hijacked.

Go to the link to see many more.

[jose]

Herein lies the paradox. If the American people want truth they must acknowledge that they have been deceived. If that were to happen, and if they were to accept the facts that have been uncovered by the independent 9/11 research community, their faith in their government would be irreparably destroyed. In the long run, it is far easier to maintain one’s faith in a deceptive government than to deal with the painful details of that deception.
http://tvnewslies.org/html/refusing_..._evidence.html

[Nono]

jose, I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's stone obvious that the American people have a gargantuan emotional stake in the thing -- after waving all those flags and re-electing Dubya they'd feel pretty foolish if it turned out to be an inside job.

Not that I'm saying it is. Maybe it is. Probably isn't. Maybe a hybrid. The striking thing is all those unanswered questions and the shiftiness of the Bush administration throughout. The one thing they clearly didn't want was a full-diclosure investigation.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: Dieval Is anyone really sure that they used a cell phone to make the calls? They do have phones on some airplanes that aren't cell phones....you know, the ones they charge $10.00 a minute to use...how exactly do we know they people on the planes didn't use these?

The last I knew the planes that crashed into the twin towers were not at 35000 feet either, half way up the skyscraper at 35000 feet? BIG BIG BUILDING KIDS!

I get the biggest charge of being told that using a cell phone make you a fairy tale believer coming from the black helicopter big brother conspiracy enthusiasts. And I mean that in a light-hearted way.

This is such a tired subject, no one is going to budge. Why even go there?

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: jose Herein lies the paradox. If the American people want truth they must acknowledge that they have been deceived. If that were to happen, and if they were to accept the facts that have been uncovered by the independent 9/11 research community, their faith in their government would be irreparably destroyed. In the long run, it is far easier to maintain one’s faith in a deceptive government than to deal with the painful details of that deception. http://tvnewslies.org/html/refusing_..._evidence.html

We know our government is loaded with scam artists. Are you seriously suggesting we are in denial of this? How far into "" US = BAD BAD BAD..... EUROPE/MIDDLEEAST = GOOD GOOD GOOD" does one have to delve into before even a chicken with a itty bitty head clucks out, FUCKTARD>>>>GET REAL!!

[Nono]

Jeez, Obe, ever do anything in life other than rant?

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: Nono Jeez, Obe, ever do anything in life other than rant?

Come on, I don't always rant. You left wing folk are too tight on your opposition. It isn't as if we never see you all do it. Besides, it's good therapy for us all.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Now that this has been cast into an un-moderated forum, I can tell you fucking idots how I feel.

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid The last I knew the planes that crashed into the twin towers were not at 35000 feet either, half way up the skyscraper at 35000 feet? BIG BIG BUILDING KIDS!

At the time of the call it was 35,000 feet, asshole. ATC knows the altitude and there is a time stamp on all phone calls. Dig the shit out of your ears, and set down the fucking koolaid.
You dont have to believe everything they tell you.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Pooeypants Doesn't this seem a little disturbing to you how "easy" it was to pull off? The US is no stranger to terrorism, Al Qaeda has attacked in the past in smaller scale. There are many unanswered questions pertaining to this act of terrorism, but I'm sure you don't even want to know what they are.

No. This is AN OPEN SOCIETY Pooey. Do you know how hard it would be to kill 75k Americans on live national television? It wouldn't be hard at all.


Does it bother you that it's easier for you to acept the most outlandish theories ratehr then the easiest one? The there is an evil terrorist organization whose goal is world wide subjegation to Islam, and would have used a nuclear weapon if they had the chance?


I don't see why people have such a hard time with what happened on 9/11..

"It was too easy for them to pull off!!" Gee, high jacking airplanes has historically been fairly easy. They train the crews not to fight back too hard for fear of crashing the plane. Flying a 757 while it's all ready air borne... just AIN'T that hard. Okay it's a passenger jet, big, stable and computer assissted flying. Get a copy of MS Flight 2000, get a 757 model off the web that's used for training purposes, and try it, you'll see how damn easy it is. (even the Navy uses MS Flith to train pilots)


So come on, seriously was 9/11a:

Huge US Government Consperiacy to enrich bankers to start a war in two countries to usher in the NWO and pad the pockets of the Defense Industry and Oil barons and spread death destruction and the American Empire...

Or

The next evolution of Terrro that had been escalating for the past 25 years. And Americas LACK of response for the previus 8 years in any meaningful way only embolden them?


Hitler killed 6+ Million Jews and other unwanted in his attempt to usher in the Third Reich, why is it so hard to believe that Bin Laden and Co. angry at the prescence of Infidels in the Holy Land wasn't enough motive to pull off 9/11?

[Lou Minotti]

the easiest one?

The easiest one? What's easy about accepting a load of BS. All it takes is a mere glance at the facts and anyone slightly conscious can see we are being lied to.