Thread-Placement-Dispute: crop circles

[Sean]

this is being moved to flame-fest as it does not belong in general discussion-it is a conspiracy

[PatrickHenry]

Wrong, Thompson. It is an actual phenomenon that is not proven to be done by any one entity. You are wrong and autocratic for moving to Flamefest. I object.

[Sean]

Oh...so that justifies why it is in the general discussion forum right? Continue this discussion in private messages with me to prevent further distraction.

[Mia]

I don't see why this isn't General Discussion. The topic name even says 'mystery or hoax?'. The truth is we don't know all the facts, and PH isn't pushing a conspiracy, just the different possibilities as far as I can see.

[Sean]

I agree with you Mia to a certain extent. While the topic itself is initially not really a big deal, the topic did become one of "who creates the crop circles"-with little in the way of supportive evidence for any side as you have said. I just felt that General discussion is not the proper place for such a debate. As I have told Patrick in private, it was either Science/Tech or Flame-fest. I chose this forum because it was hard to place. I have to move topics to appropriate places when possible to avoid confusion for new members and so forth.

[Mia]

I may have the wrong idea. I always thought the title General Discussion was literal - 1) it can be discussion, not having to be debateable, and 2) that general meant anything not overtly negative.

I thought flame-fest was for topics that aren't even a civil discussion, and/or are inherently negative.

But in this case if you offered to move it to Sci/tech that's fair.

[Sean]

Well Mia, General discussion is for all non-debatable topics..general topics such as the majority are (post your picture, about yourself, funny website, etc). This topic became a debate, and the subject does not have a ton of reliable info (so it was hard to decide whether it belonged here or in Science).

And Mia, I did not give the option to move it to the science forum-although I may consider it. I was just doing my random rounds of organization as I do. If I notice big topics that people will participate in, I want to make sure they are in the right spot to avoid confusion of what the specific area is for.

[Mia]

Ok.

[PatrickHenry]

This is why I advocate for democratic institutions. When an autocrat like Sean has total control over any little fiefdom, like volconvo, the temptation is often too much. Meaning well, Big Brother messes with us in small and large ways.

Here in the feudal monarchy he created, he rules with an iron hand. Protests are dealt with in any way he so chooses. If he wants to ban me for my impertinence, there is no oversight to tell him, "That's not fair!"

We have a general topic that was begun in the General Discussion forum TEN MONTHS ago. It languished there, obviously because most folks aren't that curious or excited about crop circles. Most of those who posted answers to the topic title said, "hoax." But they did not really look into it without preconceived ideas. They just felt like stepping on a topic that didn't interest them. Sean has now taken it one step further and consigned the topic to the Flames.

I have kidded Sean about his evil intent with volconvo, based upon certain easily available evidence. I like his site and have spent a lot of time here. That doesn't mean he did it for us. He has his own agenda. But he called this topic a "conspiracy" when it is nothing of the sort. It is simply a fringe topic with some unexplained and anomalous data. His action in moving the thread to the Flames was in response to my reference to HAARP being the source of the crop graphics. He doesn't like discussions about secret stuff, and HAARP definitely has a secret side. But there is evidence that points in the direction I pointed.

So Sean used his omnipotence here to dump my little topic. His explanation rings hollow. If there were a way to revolt against his autocracy, I would lead the Revolution...

[Sean]

Patrick, you have turned something as simple as a topic move into a dramatic and evil scheme guised as something else by me, the evil big-brother.

My "agenda" is to get users. I want as many people participating as possible. It gets me potential advertisers, who pay for more advertising to get more users. Sorry to disappoint, but my "agenda" is as transparent as can be. I want the site to be successful. With moderation, a set of rules, and a rule for all moderators and myself that gives us the right to make judgment calls, we keep the current state of the forum organized, and prepare it for new people who will evaluate whether or not they should participate, and keep it healthy for current members.

Oh and Patrick, sorry to bore you with what you label as "hollow" explanations, but did you ever think that people responded to your topic the way they did because the topic was not in the proper area? If it was in flame-fest or something else to begin with then the revelation by some that it could be a hoax would have been very apparent-as it is in a forum where there is not necessarily solid evidence for either side of a subject. In a general discussion area, where jokes, chit-chat, and other non-debate stuff are featured, a topic like yours will not receive the feedback you may have wanted.

Oh and Patrick, my agenda of keeping the site organized so as not to discourage people from posting ties into why I do not like topics of religion in the science forum (boy would that turn off someone who came interested in science). It is the same reason I moved your topic. Old or not, I correct things I view as confusing for new and current users. You said it yourself-your topic was not well received in that forum.

If you perceive my moderation as with an "iron hand" I suggest you compare it to other sites. Other sites would have moved or deleted your topic if it did not belong, and probably would not have even bothered to tell you what happened to it. Oh, and as far as publicly engaging with you in an argument about the matter on other sites...forget it.

I cover all the expenses, but I do not deserve the authority to decide how things are organized on my site? I do not even delete topics unless they are outright spam, so I find this whole portrayal of me to be absurd.

You are being overly-dramatic and rude.

[Sean]

Quote by: PatrickHenry No. You have relegated this thread to the flames unjustly. Flamefest can only be read by those who are registered and logged in. The general web-surfing public cannot even see this thread. It is not a conspiracy as you labeled it, Sean. If it is a conspiracy, then your definition of that term is a novel one to cover your prejudices.

Is the topic general discussion? Perhaps I mis-used the definition of the term conspiracy, but that does not make up for it being posted in the wrong forum. I would have gladly put the same topic in the Science forum, as I have said, but there is so little evidence as far as this issue goes, that it would not quite fit. You can interpret this action however you would like. I have repeated my intentions numerous times. I have no reason to lie. I do not care if the world sees that we talk about crop circles :) I do care that the forums make sense. If it's a pile of confusion, then I get a confused audience who does not register.

In regards to that poll I have to admit that my memory fails me. I honestly do not recall moving that topic. I certainly could have, and may have considered doing so (since there is really no topic being discussed throughout the thread), but I do not remember doing so. I remember RebelwithanAk being a moderator back then, but I do not remember if he did the move or if it was I.

You may view it as rude when I move a topic to a different forums (notably flamefest), but that is why you are free to argue with me. I will provide you with my honest reason for moving it. Trust me Patrick, if I move a topic because I do not want the general public to see it I will let you know because I do not want a replication of such a topic in the future in that forum. It is like when someone posts spam. I do not simply move the topic. I let the person know that spam is not cool, or that spam belongs in a specific area of the forum…

And Patrick, you have a right to get mad, but you have to try to be civil with me if you want the same in return. Calling me an autocrat and saying you do not like me does nothing. I understand you are mad, but when I read reported posts that say things like “do you guys even moderate” or “why do I bother coming here” all it does is piss me off, and probably even influences the extent to which I give the matter attention. The same is true when I am called a liar (you called my explanations “hollow”).

I hope this matter is done. If you want to continue feel free, but I want to move on. The small amount of time I can devote to the site during the school year needs to be focused on tons of stuff.

No hard feelings on this end provided you were just mad.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Thats a good explanation to me.
Hey, I was wondering why dont we have a category for the fringe stuff? Flame Fest seems like hell or purgatory or some kind of banishment at the least it IS insulting. Call the new catagory The Fringe, or whatever, and sub-label it Extraterrestrials, Conspiracies, Paranormal (or Parapsychology) and Whack-Jobs and you could find some weirdo to moderate it .
Or call it "The Olde Curiosity Shoppe"

I dont know, just a suggestion.

[Sean]

hmm..you make a good point. I changed the name once before from butterface to flame-fest to make it sound a bit more humorous, but you may be onto something. If someone can come up with a better name that is somewhat volcano/explosion/etc related I will mail you a gold star sticker

[Mia]

I think that's a good idea. Then only the insulting posts/threads will be put in pergatory.

That's the problem with this thread being moved - I doubt PH has a problem with organization. If the move wasn't to a place that suggested something negative about the thread, you guys wouldn't be having this disagreement.

I think it is a topic worthy of discussion, even if we don't have many interested in it right now, and flame-fest assures it won't ever be given serious consideration.

That's how I would feel if it were my topic, anyway.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Pretty Cool Pic
How about Mystic Crater, or Molten Extremophiles (organisms (especially microbes) that live in the most extreme conditions,).

We could prolly do better, if you had another contest.

[Sean]

It would not be another forum. It would be the same, but just a new name, different spectrum of posts, etc.

[Gorgo]

The word 'fringe' seems derogatory to some people. If someone thinks something is science, and they want to discuss it as science, what's the problem? It may not be science, but what does it cost to put it in a science folder? This isn't a science journal.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Sean It would not be another forum. It would be the same, but just a new name, different spectrum of posts, etc.

So, you are saying it would be another section of Flame Fest? Just another neighborhood in hell?
Why should Volconvo be the authority of, for instance, whether the earth is flat or round or both. It could have been a disc, before it was positively identified. Thank "God" the church didnt have the last word on that gem.

Should Volconvo cast a "Ball Shaped Earth Theory" into a heretic's prison like Flame Fest or Butterface?

Until we have an acceptable scientific explanation of how these crop circles appear "magically" over night; allow legitimate debate or discussion.
Dont just change the name of the hell you want to send it to.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Until we have an acceptable scientific explanation of how these crop circles appear "magically" over night; allow legitimate debate or discussion.

Actually, we know very well that many are hoaxes, and we have no reason to suspect any other source for the rest. But again, this is not a peer-reviewed science journal. Who cares?

[Sean]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Until we have an acceptable scientific explanation of how these crop circles appear "magically" over night; allow legitimate debate or discussion. Dont just change the name of the hell you want to send it to.

Not just the name, but as I said, the "sprectrum" of topics to be posted in here. You can improve/change a section without starting over. Might even be able to move it into the main section of debate forums, and open it to unregistered users. Sort of an anything goes forum.