Gang will target Minuteman vigil on Mexico border

[tivodan1116]

By the way, as a comparison... Last week here in Brockport we had our "Bienvenidas" celebration... It's our annual welcome festival for the farm workers who we have pragmatically realized are putting food on our tables and are not only an essential element of our economy but a peaceful, hardworking community of people we'd love to have as neighbors. In our area we do things like this to encourage farmworkers to become legal, contributing, year-round members of our community. It's called being good to your fellow man.

[Whodoe!]

We need to be good and even great to our fellow man but ...

People who inhabit border towns pay for social services with their tax dollars. An outside force is limiting or removing their access to these services. They have a right and an expectation to have access to those services. To be kind to mankind is ideal but these towns simply do not have the resources to care for the overflow of a third world country run by despots. I don’t see any connection to elitism, racism, xenophobia or mean intentions here.

If Laredo is to have the implied humanistic obligation of caring for hundreds and thousands of people who have no money then what happens to Laredo?

[Cephus]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Typical strawman baloney. Kids are not consenting adults. Plain and simple, consenting adults should be allowed to work for whatever wage they are willing to work for. It is xenophobic and racist of us to say either that Mexicans are not deserving of the same jobs and opportunities as us, or that allowing people to travel thousands of miles for the chance at a better life is "exploiting" anyone.

So when you lose your job because someone is willing to undercut you and your bosses don't feel like following the law, that's fine with you? Sheesh, where are the illegal aliens who are willing to work for pennies to do your job?

::excuse me in advance for blatant sarcasm:: Oh no, what a horrible thing! Human beings want a chance at a decent education, health care, a safe environment, and a decent job! We have to send them away as fast as possible for breaking our completely arbitrary law that says if you are born on the northern shore of the rio grande, you are an American, and if you are born on the southern side and come north, you are a criminal.

If they want to do that, they can come here LEGALLY! If you tried to go to Mexico illegally and get a job, they'd throw you out. But here... oh, we have to give them work and free health care and free education because that's what they WANT. Who cares what they want? There is a right way to do things and a wrong way. We do not reward peopld for doing things illegally. Or are you suggesting there is no difference? If I decide that I want a better life, can I steal your stuff? After all, just because it's illegal, according to you, doesn't make it wrong.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Cephus So when you lose your job because someone is willing to undercut you and your bosses don't feel like following the law, that's fine with you? Sheesh, where are the illegal aliens who are willing to work for pennies to do your job?

Unpleasant Surprise for your attempt at personalizing the argument: Yes that is completely fine with me. I do not believe in minimum wage laws or immigration laws, so the argument that my boss would be breaking the law by hiring them below minimum wage is irrelevant.

Your argument is akin to General Motors asking the government to outlaw the Kia Rio because it is cheaper then the Chevy Cobalt. It amazes me how "free market" capitalists suddenly turn into isolationists asking for government help when the free market starts affecting the bloated prices they are charging for their labor.

By the way, my job is one that requires skills. If an immigrant was trained enough to do my job, he probably wouldn't do it for less. At any rate, it doesn't matter because I am retiring from retail tech sales in a month to go to school full time, after which I will be an attorney, again, a job unskilled immigrants can't do for pennies. If you're an American with no skills who can only be a fruit picker, that's your problem.

If they want to do that, they can come here LEGALLY! If you tried to go to Mexico illegally and get a job, they'd throw you out.

Oh, I'm sorry.. I didn't realize Mexico was the legal and cultural gold standard of the world... In the words of every mom in the history of mankind... If Mexico jumped off a bridge, would you want to do that too?

But here... oh, we have to give them work and free health care and free education because that's what they WANT.

Putting words in my mouth. I never said they deserved free health care or education. Frankly, I never said American citizens deserve anything for free. What they deserve is the opportunity to come to the United States and earn a wage that they feel is fair, just like your immigrant ancestors did. As part of earning that wage and contributing to the economy, they should pay the same taxes we pay, which would be possible if their labor was not forced onto the black market. Once their labor is legal and they pay the same taxes as a citizen, they deserve the same rights as a citizen, despite perhaps not having some artificial government created paper that says "citizen".

Who cares what they want? There is a right way to do things and a wrong way. We do not reward peopld for doing things illegally. Or are you suggesting there is no difference? If I decide that I want a better life, can I steal your stuff? After all, just because it's illegal, according to you, doesn't make it wrong.

I am suggesting in the case of immigration, that there is no difference. "Illegal" immigration is a fabrication of government and is not a natural law. Laws against stealing are natural laws. And yes, just because something is illegal does not make it wrong. You believe that government is infallible, I suppose? Government never makes bad law? So the government was right when it allowed slavery in 1860 and also right three years later when it outlawed slavery? Government makes mistakes, and yes, being "illegal" and "wrong" are not the same things.

Your argument reeks of someone for whom citizenship in the United States was a "born" right and therefore cannot possibly appreciate how silly the concept of "illegal" immigration really is. Because someone is born in a particular geographic location they are entitled to certain rights? "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal..." as long as they are born within whatever happens to be our country at that moment, right?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Because someone is born in a particular geographic location they are entitled to certain rights? "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal..." as long as they are born within whatever happens to be our country at that moment, right?

I need your address. I'll be squatting in your backyard for the forseeable future.