Gang will target Minuteman vigil on Mexico border

[Lou Minotti]

The entities manipulating these said governments are evil. If you can't accept or see that you simply have your eyes closed (or maybe "heavily misguided"). There are quite a few public groups that openly call for world government. Ever read None Dare Call it Treason? No? And you call yourself a Republican? What you call anti-American, the Founding Fathers' would mostly likely call welcome and justified dissent. The only one that is deluded is you.

[asterix404]

Alright realy fast and no spell checker this time sorry guys. The real question to me is who would win ex special forces and DEA vs drug dealers since they are the people who really would be the only issue here. I mean yea get the milatary of mexico to round up some minutemen whatever you want. I still don't think that 6000 troops vs a handful of men no matter how great, armed with handguns would really have a shot. The funny thing that no one understands is that we need the migrant workers badly since do you know any americans that would bother to pick veggies... and the second I say that people jump down my throught until I see in the back room of a kitchen a mexican or other hispanic cleaning and you talk with the owner and say, hes the bast damn worker I have and never complains. They have to exist in this country and there are too many of them and they are too cunning to be stoped by a butnch of people with handguns. Nice try but alas it is doomed.

As far as gringo goes... people in south america use it to define anyone whos first launguage is english. It's more of a note in the culture then a racists slurr like nigger is in the US refering to a black person. It's a different use in a different culture. Whatever... this shit that I have seen on these threads the "anti gringos" should really just loosen up and dont take it too personally.

[Mr.Vicchio]

asterix, you are correct about gringos.. but it is also a slur, and he admitted it as such. That's where the issue went.

Sorry.

And the thing is, no one is saying immigrants shouldn't be here. It's the METHOD of how they get here that is the issue.

[Lou Minotti]

Amen. As a Libertarian I am all for legal (& realistic) immigration. And the word IMMIGRATION itself means much more than simply opening the door. But this isn't immigration. It is an INVASION. No other way to define it.

[Logjam]

I'm in agreement with Mr. Vicchio. I'd like to see some good old fashioned, hard nosed fisticuffs between us and Mexico. It's about time that we settled this illegal allien mess. Looks like a fight is the only way that we are going to achieve any real solution.

People who sneak across our boarder should understand that they do it at great personal risk. If their cops come across with them to protect them then we should kill them.

I'm tired of messing around.

[Anti Imm]

It is very clear that the vast majority of Americans have had it with illegal Mexicans in their country. You are draining us, while, at the same time, openly expressing your contempt and even hatred toward us.

You come here because conditions in your own country are poor; we know, we hear it day after day. But why don't you start at the root of the problem and demand better from your own government? Are you so weak and such collective cowards that you will allow your government to continue to ignore your needs?

Please hear us: we don't want more illegal immigration. We have our own problems to deal with, we don't need yours as well. Have some dignity: change your country instead of running like cowards to your neighbor's county.

[rmnunez]

Vic, I never advocated the reference to gringoes for its offensive slurring value, I explicitly stated this term was deemed best because its gringan favoured alternative (American) was found inapt.

As for objections to the METHOD of immigration (illegally), before advocating changing Mexican practices it might make sense to review how gringan ones affect these. Consider the basics of undocumented immigration; overwhelmingly from Mexico, frequent, voluminous, recurring and employment related.

There are 2 gringan practices which obviously could be changed to reduce undocumented immigration; first, make it more illegal to employ undocumenteds and punish their employers more severely; second, streamline and accelerate the issuance of permits for temporary workers who are not really migrating.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Whatever man, I tried to read your post, but you insist on finding ways to slip "gringo" into every sentance you can... even by MAKING up words....

What the hell is gringan?

Lemme look it up

Web Results 1 - 1 of 1 for definition gringan. (0.26 seconds) Volconvo.com - Iraq "a cause for extremists" ... like bishops perfectly acceptable definition and love talking in circles. ... I hear "pro-unification" North Koreans also take a dim view of gringan ... www.volconvo.com/forums/ showthread.php?t=4106&page=4 - 81k - Cached - Similar pages

GET IT yet? You are now MAKING up a word instead of jsut accepting the truth. This is an english language based board, and continued use of racially based labels is INSULTING. And I feel there is a VERY strong case to be made that you are intentionally doing so out of spite.

[Matt W]

explicitly stated this term was deemed best because its gringan favoured alternative (American) was found inapt.

And we explicity stated that it was insulting, and offered alternatives. Haven't you gotten over this yet?

[Gorgo]

Quote by: The Dunedan stop this nonsense

That's insulting to call what someone says "nonsense."

[Cephus]

Quote by: rcne I know Fox will not allow these gangs free access to the border - right? If not I think the gang may start a border war.

Like he won't allow all the illegal aliens flooding north across the border now? His entire tactic for improving Mexico is to throw out the poor and undesirable. Anyone that stops the flow northward is causing trouble for Fox.

Why you ask - do you really think that if they cross the border attack, then skip back across the border - we won't follow.

Because Bush is a pussy and is terrified of offending Vincente Fox.

Unless of course if the Mexican army picks them up first - and puts them in one of those fine Mexican Jails.

Except that most of the Mexican army is already on the take from the drug cartels and will probably help them. Heck, half of these "hitmen" are probably ex Mexican military anyhow.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this turns into a shooting war. I'll also not be surprised if Bush starts punishing Americans who are doing *HIS* job on the border.

[letxa2000]

Quote by: Cephus Because Bush is a pussy and is terrified of offending Vincente Fox.

Why? Why would Bush be terrified of offending the president of Mexico?

Except that most of the Mexican army is already on the take from the drug cartels and will probably help them.

Actually, that's not true. If you want to adjust your statement to say "most of Mexican police is already on the take", sure, I'll agree with you. But their military is surprisingly non-corrupted. Not perfect, no, but neither is our Border Patrol considering the whole Douglas NM scandal.

Heck, half of these "hitmen" are probably ex Mexican military anyhow.

I don't have any proof one way or the other on that, and I doubt you do, either. But most of the Mexican military are young Mexicans that are simply fulfilling a two-year obligation to serve in the military. If they're lucky, most of them will leave the military not being afraid to hold an automatic weapon. Most of them probably even shot one a few times. But highly trained military "hitmen?" That describes an extremely small fraction of the Mexican military.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this turns into a shooting war. I'll also not be surprised if Bush starts punishing Americans who are doing *HIS* job on the border.

I would hope he would. The border should be defended, but not by unlicensed vigilantes. If they want to defend the border, they should join the Border Patrol.

[rmnunez]

Last I heard the gangs which were to target minute men were the "Maras". The Mara Salvatrucha gangs are originally from Los Angeles. In the 80s the US expelled a large number of them who came from Guatemala and points south and were in the US illegally. The sudden influx of hundreds of convicted criminal gang members back in their places of origin resulted in their carving out areas of control in the primary local criminal activity; drug smuggling. Now the Maras are well-established across the US. One of the gang bosses, incarcerated on a drug-related conviction near Los Angeles, called on fellow gang members to attack the vigilantes in solidarity with the Mexican undocumenteds. Any gang members attacking minute men will be coming from Los Angeles, not crossing the border from Mexico. Alas, the call was made when the vigilantes first deployed but I haven't heard of any casualties among them, so it seems it was just a bluff.

The Mexican military is corrupt and the forces deployed for drug interdiction at the border are the most corrupt, but its a problem with the upper levels in the officer corps, not something that trickles down to the foot soldier.

[tinybear]

So who says we should throw open the borders? Who still wonders why illegal immigration is such a hot topic in the US?

[rmnunez]

tiny, the overwhelming majority of those crossing without the proper formalities are not criminals. The overwhelming majority of the undocumenteds in the US are not criminals other than for their irregular entry, they are just laborers trying to pass unnoticed.

If the US had adequate procedures to handle the seasonal migrant workers, these wouldn't be resorting to smugglers and illicit crossings. If it weren't regular practice for undocumenteds to be smuggled across, it would be more difficult to do this. With adequate procedures for seasonal migrant workers, criminals travelling to the US would be more easily detected and kept out.

[Cephus]

Quote by: rmnunez tiny, the overwhelming majority of those crossing without the proper formalities are not criminals. The overwhelming majority of the undocumenteds in the US are not criminals other than for their irregular entry, they are just laborers trying to pass unnoticed.

Of course they are, by definition! If they cross the border illegally, they are commiting a crime and are thus, CRIMINALS! 100% of *ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE CRIMINALS!*

If the US had adequate procedures to handle the seasonal migrant workers, these wouldn't be resorting to smugglers and illicit crossings. If it weren't regular practice for undocumenteds to be smuggled across, it would be more difficult to do this. With adequate procedures for seasonal migrant workers, criminals travelling to the US would be more easily detected and kept out.

Regardless, and whether or not the US needs legal migrant workers or not is the subject for another thread, that doesn't change the fact that these people are here illegally and need to be sent back. Just because it is difficult to do something doesn't mean we should all give up and not do it. Illegal aliens are killing the economy of the border states.

[Lou Minotti]

tiny, the overwhelming majority of those crossing without the proper formalities are not criminals.

"Without the proper formalities"???? This is pure doublespeak. These people (with the help of Fox's government and others) are violating Americas rights as a sovereign nation. We're on to you....

"For La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada"

[RickSp]

Quote by: Lou Minotti "Without the proper formalities"???? This is pure doublespeak. These people (with the help of Fox's government and others) are violating Americas rights as a sovereign nation. We're on to you....

Those monsters, willing to work hard for the wages offered, at jobs that Americans won't take. How dare they? And violating our sovereignty too! We've got to protect the Fatherland, err Homeland, against such hard workers, err invaders. Yah that's right, invaders who pick lettuce and work construction. Dangerous bastards all.

[Lou Minotti]

Nice buzzwords and strawmen. "Jobs Americans won't take"...please.

[Lou Minotti]

Dangerous bastards all.

"For La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada"

And violating our sovereignty too! We've got to protect the Fatherland, err Homeland, against such hard workers, err invaders.

You One Worlders crack me up. You use jokes, innuendoes and straw men but whenever you have to actually explain yourself or offer a solution you end up getting laughed at.

Fatherland, err Homeland

Oh, so I'm a Nazi for suggesting unsecure borders adds does nothing for security...

"For La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada"