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Ali · Mar 8, 2005, 05:47 am

Okay, I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but what the hell. Do you think, from a purely economic standpoint, that the education of women helps our country? Seeing as a large portion of women give up their careers in order to have a family, don't you think that the resources used for their education are being wasted and could be put to better use.

Before people label me as a backward mullah, let me say that I am not against women being part of the workforce. I just feel that it is a waste of money when a woman spends her life building up for a career and then gives it away when she gets married.

**Matt W** · Mar 8, 2005, 06:23 am

*winces*

Just as well you posted this in FF....

I feel you're ignoring several knock-on effects of educating women who decide to raise a family - especially those who return to work. As an example, my Mum was an ex-patriate wife for 8 years - when we returned to the UK, she re-trained in IT (in the early 80s) and is now a fairly senior Project Manager for a major Building Society. She's still happily married (folks had their 30th wedding anniversary last week), and has mebbe 4 years to go before retirement. That's a helluva contribution, after being married & having kids. And this isn't exactly an uncommon phenomenon - I can name several friends & relatives who have had kids, but due to the level of income at their disposal, are able to work whilst leaving kids in childcare. These aren't the exceptions - they're becoming the rule.

Back to your cave, Mr. Neanderthal! :p

G. Adams · Mar 8, 2005, 10:08 am

I don't think it's a waste of money for three reasons.

a) We treat everyone as individuals. Just because a large proportion of women cut hours, change to low pressure jobs or leave the workforce for time while raising kids doesn't mean all do. Even if it is a minority who will take career over family for a significant time, it doesn't mean they should be excluded from education because of the majority.

b) If you live in a democracy it's neccesary for everyone to be educated. If women didn't get an education at all they wouldn't be able to read or write, meaning their knowledge of politics would be limited and their ability to interact with politicians through letter writing etc would be removed. No doubt that there are some idiots and ignorants who get to vote vote, their called BNP or UKIP supporters (or god help them Veritas), but they are a minority.

c) This is a personal one for me, but I couldn't live with an idiot girlfriend or wife longer than a few months, and she'd have to be unbelievably hot too, before I got bored and went looking for someone better. I know the studies say men look for women less intelligent than themselves but I can't bear them. I don't have any dumb female friends let alone potential partners.

castille · Mar 11, 2005, 08:16 am

I think obviously a high school education is necessary, but I would imagine getting a college degree for women should be held under some consideration. Let's face it, by the time you get out of college (in your mid-20s), you're close to having kids.

G Adams - As a petty note, don't assume education means intelligence, especially when it comes to women. I've met a lot of women who didn't even enter college, and are much smarter than women with PhDs. In fact my girlfriend (a freelance writer) failed college, but the knowledge she has is amazing...

G. Adams · Mar 11, 2005, 10:18 am

I was taking all of education into account, not just higher education. Although I wouldn't say it's specific to women at all, I know way to many idiots at my Uni. I'm on a politics course and the amount of people who know nothing about it who are on it with me is astounding. Sure they can recite passages from books and pass exams, but try to get them to show any deeper understanding and they look at you blankly. You think they would be interested in this subject considering the amount of time they have to put into it.

Lilith · Mar 11, 2005, 11:46 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Ali

Okay, I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but what the hell. Do you think, from a purely economic standpoint, that the education of women helps our country? Seeing as a large portion of women give up their careers in order to have a family, don't you think that the resources used for their education are being wasted and could be put to better use.

Before people label me as a backward mullah, let me say that I am not against women being part of the workforce. I just feel that it is a waste of money when a woman spends her life building up for a career and then gives it away when she gets married.

Oh my.

rcne · Mar 12, 2005, 08:00 am

Ali, from a 'purely economic standpoint' an educated workforce just adds to the quality of life for all.

You assume that all women drop out when they have children - a false statement. A majority return to work as soon as they are able. Others stay home for a longer period and begin the education of their children, then return to work.

I think that if you check the labor statistics the percentage of women who acquire an education then drop totally out of the workforce is actually small.

The only ones who believe you point of view is those who still suffer from a stone-age dogma.

Please drop the dogma and join the 21st century thinking of people who don't condone treating women as second class beings.

Lilith · Mar 12, 2005, 11:49 am

You're right, rcne, most women don't drop out the workforce after having children. Some will take time off to raise the children for awhile, but then go back to work. There is nothing wrong with a woman who wants to stay home with her children and be a housewife, if that is what makes her happy and she finds enjoyment out of it. And there is nothing wrong with a working mother either. I find it sad how working mothers are belittled and homemakers feel they are being attacked by the working woman. The battle lines are clearly being drawn in this society.

Ali · Mar 15, 2005, 06:04 am

I was referring to higher education, more specifically a university degree.

there ARE a number of women who don't fully utilise thier education. True, I don't have any statistics to back it up but I made the statement by observing the people around me. For example, I had a teacher (female) who had a Masters degree in Psychology, but she was teaching Urdu to class 5. Now she doesn't "need" a Psych. degree to do that. Similar thing with an English teacher having a Chemistry degree. If the cost of her education could have been spent on something more productive, it would have been more beneficial to society.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some will take time off to raise the children for awhile, but then go back to work.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, let's consider this scenario. Say a person starts working at 25 and retires at 60. that's 35 years of working. A women may take, say, 5 years to raise kids, that brings it down to 30. A guy on the other hand, would have worked the full 35 years. Keeping in mind that not EVERY person in the state can be educated, we have to make some choices. Who do you think should be preferred?

**Matt W** · Mar 15, 2005, 06:34 am

Women have an earlier retirement age anyhow, and are often subject to sexual discrimination at work in terms of pay, insults, and who knows what else. And you're telling us you want to INCREASE the level of discrimination?

Besides which, university education is a choice made by the individual, not an automatic right. Women who choose to go through higher education usually have a clear career in mind, regardless of their family plans. Your proposal would eliminate a significant proportion of the workforce - which no country can afford. And as for your example - it happens with men too, generally more so. What's your point?

I say again, get thee hence to your cave.

castille · Mar 15, 2005, 07:37 am

Quote:

Quote by: Ali

Keeping in mind that not EVERY person in the state can be educated, we have to make some choices. Who do you think should be preferred?

Ah, unless you're living in an extremist socialist society, the last time I heard they give university degrees to people who are smart. They don't just assign university degrees to people.

Mar 8, 2005, 05:47 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Ali Molten Ash Posts: 41	Education of women Okay, I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but what the hell. Do you think, from a purely economic standpoint, that the education of women helps our country? Seeing as a large portion of women give up their careers in order to have a family, don't you think that the resources used for their education are being wasted and could be put to better use. Before people label me as a backward mullah, let me say that I am not against women being part of the workforce. I just feel that it is a waste of money when a woman spends her life building up for a career and then gives it away when she gets married.

Mar 8, 2005, 06:23 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,195	winces Just as well you posted this in FF.... I feel you're ignoring several knock-on effects of educating women who decide to raise a family - especially those who return to work. As an example, my Mum was an ex-patriate wife for 8 years - when we returned to the UK, she re-trained in IT (in the early 80s) and is now a fairly senior Project Manager for a major Building Society. She's still happily married (folks had their 30th wedding anniversary last week), and has mebbe 4 years to go before retirement. That's a helluva contribution, after being married & having kids. And this isn't exactly an uncommon phenomenon - I can name several friends & relatives who have had kids, but due to the level of income at their disposal, are able to work whilst leaving kids in childcare. These aren't the exceptions - they're becoming the rule. Back to your cave, Mr. Neanderthal! :p I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Mar 8, 2005, 10:08 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	I don't think it's a waste of money for three reasons. a) We treat everyone as individuals. Just because a large proportion of women cut hours, change to low pressure jobs or leave the workforce for time while raising kids doesn't mean all do. Even if it is a minority who will take career over family for a significant time, it doesn't mean they should be excluded from education because of the majority. b) If you live in a democracy it's neccesary for everyone to be educated. If women didn't get an education at all they wouldn't be able to read or write, meaning their knowledge of politics would be limited and their ability to interact with politicians through letter writing etc would be removed. No doubt that there are some idiots and ignorants who get to vote vote, their called BNP or UKIP supporters (or god help them Veritas), but they are a minority. c) This is a personal one for me, but I couldn't live with an idiot girlfriend or wife longer than a few months, and she'd have to be unbelievably hot too, before I got bored and went looking for someone better. I know the studies say men look for women less intelligent than themselves but I can't bear them. I don't have any dumb female friends let alone potential partners. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Mar 11, 2005, 08:16 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	I think obviously a high school education is necessary, but I would imagine getting a college degree for women should be held under some consideration. Let's face it, by the time you get out of college (in your mid-20s), you're close to having kids. G Adams - As a petty note, don't assume education means intelligence, especially when it comes to women. I've met a lot of women who didn't even enter college, and are much smarter than women with PhDs. In fact my girlfriend (a freelance writer) failed college, but the knowledge she has is amazing... Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Mar 11, 2005, 10:18 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	I was taking all of education into account, not just higher education. Although I wouldn't say it's specific to women at all, I know way to many idiots at my Uni. I'm on a politics course and the amount of people who know nothing about it who are on it with me is astounding. Sure they can recite passages from books and pass exams, but try to get them to show any deeper understanding and they look at you blankly. You think they would be interested in this subject considering the amount of time they have to put into it. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Mar 12, 2005, 08:00 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
rcne Moderator/nobody Posts: 1,566	Ali, from a 'purely economic standpoint' an educated workforce just adds to the quality of life for all. You assume that all women drop out when they have children - a false statement. A majority return to work as soon as they are able. Others stay home for a longer period and begin the education of their children, then return to work. I think that if you check the labor statistics the percentage of women who acquire an education then drop totally out of the workforce is actually small. The only ones who believe you point of view is those who still suffer from a stone-age dogma. Please drop the dogma and join the 21st century thinking of people who don't condone treating women as second class beings. Live Long and Prosper (Genetics and Capitalism)

Mar 12, 2005, 11:49 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Lilith It's my life Location: Texas Posts: 532	You're right, rcne, most women don't drop out the workforce after having children. Some will take time off to raise the children for awhile, but then go back to work. There is nothing wrong with a woman who wants to stay home with her children and be a housewife, if that is what makes her happy and she finds enjoyment out of it. And there is nothing wrong with a working mother either. I find it sad how working mothers are belittled and homemakers feel they are being attacked by the working woman. The battle lines are clearly being drawn in this society.

Mar 15, 2005, 06:04 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Ali Molten Ash Posts: 41	I was referring to higher education, more specifically a university degree. there ARE a number of women who don't fully utilise thier education. True, I don't have any statistics to back it up but I made the statement by observing the people around me. For example, I had a teacher (female) who had a Masters degree in Psychology, but she was teaching Urdu to class 5. Now she doesn't "need" a Psych. degree to do that. Similar thing with an English teacher having a Chemistry degree. If the cost of her education could have been spent on something more productive, it would have been more beneficial to society. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some will take time off to raise the children for awhile, but then go back to work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, let's consider this scenario. Say a person starts working at 25 and retires at 60. that's 35 years of working. A women may take, say, 5 years to raise kids, that brings it down to 30. A guy on the other hand, would have worked the full 35 years. Keeping in mind that not EVERY person in the state can be educated, we have to make some choices. Who do you think should be preferred?

Mar 15, 2005, 06:34 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,195	Women have an earlier retirement age anyhow, and are often subject to sexual discrimination at work in terms of pay, insults, and who knows what else. And you're telling us you want to INCREASE the level of discrimination? Besides which, university education is a choice made by the individual, not an automatic right. Women who choose to go through higher education usually have a clear career in mind, regardless of their family plans. Your proposal would eliminate a significant proportion of the workforce - which no country can afford. And as for your example - it happens with men too, generally more so. What's your point? I say again, get thee hence to your cave. I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.