is bush the antichrist?

[bishop]

from the bible:

Matthew 7:15-23: "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do people gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Creator which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. - (Joh 8:44)

hab 2:5

“Moreover, wine is a traitor, an arrogant man who is never at rest. His greed is as wide as Sheol; like death he has never enough. He gathers for himself all nations and collects as his own all peoples.”

hab 1:5

“Look among the nations, and see; wonder and be astounded. For I am doing a work in your days that you would not believe if told. For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, who march through the breadth of the earth, to seize dwellings not their own. They are dreaded and fearsome; their justice and dignity go forth from themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards, more fierce than the evening wolves; their horsemen press proudly on. Their horsemen come from afar; they fly like an eagle swift to devour. They all come for violence, all their faces forward. They gather captives like sand. At kings they scoff, and at rulers they laugh. They laugh at every fortress, for they pile up earth and take it. Then they sweep by like the wind and go on, guilty men, whose own might is their god!”

isaiah 13:1... http://www.carm.org/kjv/Isaiah/Isaiah_13.htm

(who's the king of babylon? bush.)


i could go on.. there's a littany of passages in the bible that seem unambiguous when compared to bush's actions that it isn't even funny.

just some quotes from bush for a little extra to compare:

"This will be a monumental struggle of good versus evil, but good will prevail."

"our calling, as a blessed country, is to make the world better."

"And wherever you go, you carry a message of hope--a message that is ancient and ever new. In the words of the prophet Isaiah, 'To the captives, come out! to those who are in darkness, be free!'"


i believe that bush is at best a false prophet and at worst the antichrist. i believe that this view is supported by many passages in the bible that fit extremely well with statements bush has made and actions he has taken.

agree/disagree? if you disagree, please try to refute the biblical passages against the examples.

[PatrickHenry]

That depends on the actual definition/usage of "anti-christ." He is definitely a lying sack of camel droppings. He is a warmonger, a friend of war profiteers, a supporter of injustice and false pride. But in my view there is "anti-christ" and THE AntiChrist. Bush is too effen ignorant to be THE One. But he definitely operates in the SPIRIT of anti-christ. He has brought shame to that honorable name, Jesus Christ...

[Starboy]

Quote by: bishop i believe that bush is at best a false prophet and at worst the antichrist. i believe that this view is supported by many passages in the bible that fit extremely well with statements bush has made and actions he has taken. agree/disagree? if you disagree, please try to refute the biblical passages against the examples.

I am not a magical thinker so I do not ascribe to Bush any magical powers nor do I think that supernatural agents posses him or act through him. I think he is just another magical thinker in a country that is becoming overrun with magical thinkers. I also think that he is not a very bright magical thinker, and that he is essentially a puppet. The question is, is Cheney the puppet master or is it Rove or ?

Starboy

[dotcoma]

You guys make it sound like Bush is so much different from all of these other politicians. :rolleyes:

[Mr.Vicchio]

The humor never stops here.

Bush the anti-Christ? Snicker snicker.

When he brings ten countries together as one then maybe you have a case.


Thats one of the big "has to happen" things before you see the anti-christ. Also I do believe he supposeded to be beloved by all but a few and then die a martyrs death just before the tribulation begins. (I could have that bit wrong the dying part)

Bush doesn't meet the criteria reguardless, from a theological standpoint. Maybe a paranoids standpoint, but not on any Biblical Basis. By Bishops definition, anyone that believes in God and reads the Bible, then "hears" God in thier heart and says so, is a false prophet.

[Mr.Vicchio]

http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_3.html

Pretty good read on the anti-christ. Bush fails to meet any of these criteria. Sorry Bishop.. Bush is not the anti-Christ.. by any stretch.

[bishop]

That depends on the actual definition/usage of "anti-christ." He is definitely a lying sack of camel droppings. He is a warmonger, a friend of war profiteers, a supporter of injustice and false pride. But in my view there is "anti-christ" and THE AntiChrist. Bush is too effen ignorant to be THE One. But he definitely operates in the SPIRIT of anti-christ. He has brought shame to that honorable name, Jesus Christ...

so, you're saying that he's merely following orders?



about the ten nations.. there's the g-7, g-8, g-20.. there's also the g-10. all the different groups share the same interests - a continuation of western capitalism (yes, this includes japan). of course, the deceiver will deceive, not make such things so obvious.

But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge [and] increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain. (Dan 11:38-39)

i already posted many quotes from the bible vic.. you care to refute them, rather than simply posting a link? if you don't want to debate the topic, don't.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I was trying to avoid posting a huge "blog" of stuff and just let the link suffice.

The anti-Christ will not only be a political power, but a religous force as well. He will bring about a one-world government, claim TO BE Christ and perform miricles to prove himself. He will try to supplant Christ (anti doesn't just denote opposite, it also can mean "to replace") He will be a smooth talker and a beloved force worshipped by all but the saved.

Bush does not meet the criteria, sorry. If you WANT, here:

The name Antichrist also indicates substitution. Antichrist opposes Jesus in order to supplant Him, to take His place as Christ. Although the English language does not often use the prefix "anti" to mean substitution, it is a common use of the preposition in the Greek language. When Scripture says that Jesus died "for His people," one of the prepositions used is anti indicating that He died as a substitute for His people. This is the secondary meaning of the preposition anti. Antichrist purposes to be "in the place of," or "a substitute for" Jesus the Christ. ``` This political power will be a worldwide power. The beast has ten horns and ten crowns, representing fullness of power and authority over the nations of the world. Verse 3 says that all the world wondered after the beast. Verse 7 says that he has power over all kindreds and tongues and nations. And verse 8 says that all that dwell on the earth shall worship him (all, of course, except those whose names have been written in the Lamb's book of life). But it is a worldwide power that is the goal of, and embodiment of, all previous world powers. This is brought out in Revelation 13 in two ways. Follow along carefully as we look at this important point. First, the beast of Revelation 13 has the characteristics of a leopard, a bear, and a lion, so that, even though it is the final development of Daniel 7's fourth beast, it somehow embodies the other three as well. The four beasts of Daniel 7, almost all agree, represent four great world kingdoms: Babylon headed by Nebuchadnezzar; the Medes and Persians led by Cyrus; Greece and Macedonia under Alexander the Great, and, finally, Rome. The beast of Revelation 13 is the final development of the old, Roman kingdom (which indicates that Antichrist will come out of the Christian West, and not the pagan East), but it takes into itself also the other great kingdoms. Secondly, that Antichrist's is a worldwide kingdom is also the meaning of the seven heads of the beast described in Revelation 17. The 7 heads of the beast are 7 kingdoms-- five of them had already fallen, one of them was still standing (at the time John wrote this prophecy about AD 95), and one yet to come. Rome was the kingdom in existence, and the one yet to come is the Antichristian kingdom. The five which have already passed out of existence were the Greek kingdom, the Medo-Persian, the Babylonian, the Assyrian, and the kingdom of Babel, headed by Nimrod. We see, therefore, one beast with seven heads. And now the Spirit teaches us that the great kingdom of Antichrist, as the embodiment of these former kingdoms, succeeds where the other kingdoms ultimately failed, achieving its goal of world dominance. Nations cease their warring; the planet is united; the world is one. And that world belongs to Antichrist. The healing of the wound in Revelation 13 points to the success of Antichrist. We must not fail to see the significance of the healing of the wound. One of the heads of this beast had a "deadly wound that was healed." The explanation of this is that in the time of Nimrod, at the tower of Babel, there was an attempt to unite all men into one great world power. God frustrated this attempt by dividing the men and women into different races with different colors and languages, so that they were forced to separate. Races have remained separate ever since. All their efforts to be united have been frustrated up to this point. At the end, Antichrist will succeed. This, we believe, is what II Thessalonians 2 speaks of when it says, "he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." That is, "He that restraineth, will restrain...." There is something or someone that restrains, hinders, impedes, the Antichrist from coming; but in the end, that hindrance will be taken out of the way so that the Antichrist can succeed in uniting all the kingdoms and nations of the world into one. II Thessalonians 2 points out how Antichrist comes as an impostor of the Christ from God, and how there is a striking outward similarity between Antichrist and Christ. Will Jesus Christ be revealed some day? So will Antichrist (Vss 3,8). Will Christ be in God's temple? Antichrist will sit there also (Vs 4). Is Christ God? Antichrist will claim to be (Vs 4). Did Christ support His claim to be God with signs and wonders? Antichrist, too, will perform signs and wonders (Vs 9). Christ has a kingdom; so will Antichrist. Christ comes by the power of the Spirit; Antichrist will come by the power of a spirit, who is the devil himself.

Bush JUST DOESN'T meet the biblical criteria.. sorry.

[bishop]

by labelling all "enemies" as evil, by default, he names himself the head of all that is "good". he went so far as to wage an illegal war to promote this "good". jesus is seen as the embodiment of all that is good as well. in fact, without bush, the "good" works that he's done (like iraq) would not have happened, and evil would have prevailed. at least, according to the deceiver.

the bush administration is chock full of dominionists. and bush has been indoctrinated and is a strong believer in their tennants.

the bible's a symbolic book.. do you think that one day someone will just come out and say that they're the antichrist?

[Mr.Vicchio]

No, the anti-christ will claim to BE Christ and perform miracles and wonders.. that cannot be explained.

Bush also isn't trying to create a one world government.
The Anti-Christ will be a man that can do things above and beyond that of a normal human, and will be praised and worshipped for it. He will tell people that salvation is here on earth, and through him they will find it.

Again, Bush meets none of the criteria listed in the Bible to BE the anti-Christ.

[bishop]

he does make claims that he is doing god's work. do you disagree?

there are many who happen to believe that god chose him for this job. in fact, bush has gone on record saying as such. do you disagree?

some people can be deceived. and some can be deceived to see salvation as being rescued from the forces of evil. bush has characterized his policies as those representing good, and all others as representing evil. through bush, they will be saved - there was a lot of rhetoric during the campaign suggesting that americans would be less safe if bush wasn't president.

i'll post one of the quotes again, highlighting the points i want to make:

hab 1:5 “Look among the nations, and see; wonder and be astounded. For I am doing a work in your days that you would not believe if told. For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, who march through the breadth of the earth, to seize dwellings not their own. They are dreaded and fearsome; their justice and dignity go forth from themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards, more fierce than the evening wolves; their horsemen press proudly on. Their horsemen come from afar; they fly like an eagle swift to devour. They all come for violence, all their faces forward. They gather captives like sand. At kings they scoff, and at rulers they laugh. They laugh at every fortress, for they pile up earth and take it. Then they sweep by like the wind and go on, guilty men, whose own might is their god!”

[Mr.Vicchio]

Yes he has said he feels that spreading freedom is God's work. Giving the oppurtunity to people long repressed by tyrrany the the chance to chart thier own destiny is in his view... God's work. (I ask though, thy IS that such a bad thing?)

Has he performed Miracles? Magics? Great wonders that sciecne cannot explain?

Has he united the world under a banner of one govenrment?

Teh anti-Christ will come and unite all the world under a banner of peace, from how I have read it... nary a shot will be fired. Humanism will be his religion, the anti-christ supplanting Christ as the head of religion...

[Gorgo]

I think we've established that Viccchio is a false prophet, so believe nothing that he says on the subject as I've yet to receive the materials that I've requested:

http://www.volconvo.com/forums/archi...hp/t-2101.html

"As someone who is trying to learn, I am of course, asked by the Bible to be skeptical of your message. So the first thing to do is to find out if you are a false prophet:

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves." (Matt 7:15)

"Then if any man shall say to you Lo, here is the Christ, or, Here, believe it not. For there shall arise false Christ's and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the very elect." (Matt. 24:23-24)

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1John 4:1

So, I would ask some things of you first before I get into a discussion with either a false prophet or a real Christian. The first is will you sell everything you own and give me all of your money?

Luke 6:30
Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that taketh away thy goods ask not again

Pass this, and I will give you further tests. When those are concluded, I will get into this discussion, as I don't want to be led astray by false prophets."

[Mr.Vicchio]

I'm a false prophet now? ROFL.


I love this! Is that your stance, anyone that belives in God or Jesus and is open about it, is a false prophet if they don't give an avowed athiest the proof he wnats?

Dude, you make my mornings, thanks.

[Pooeypants]

Guys, give it a rest please.

[Nono]

Back to topic:

Quote by: Mr.V Bush meets none of the criteria listed in the Bible to BE the anti-Christ

He sure ain't wearing no sheep's clothing (though possibly his thought processes could be described as woolly). :)

[Gorgo]

Pooey, this is a discussion about Christian supersition. Vicchio claims to be a Christian and have some knowledge about Christianity. The Christian Bible says that we need to have Christians prove that they are Christians, and not False Prophets. Christians are supposed to, according to the Bible, do certain things. I asked him to do some things in order to prove himself Christian. He will not, therefore he is a False Prophet, and will undoubtedly lie in these matters.

[Pooeypants]

I'm awhile of the topic discussion but you're singling out someone and bordering on personal attacks.

[Gorgo]

"Bordering" on personal attacks is not a "personal attack." I am singling out anyone who fits the description. If you are a False Prophet, we have to know that if you're going to take part in the discussion. If we were talking about medical treatments, I'd want to know your medical background. Since we're talking about the Bible, I'd like to know what your background is. Vicchio is a False Prophet, I'm an atheist.l Neither of those are attacks, they are statements of fact.

[Starboy]

As an atheist I see all supernatural prophets as "false" prophets. There doesn’t appear to be a supernatural. There doesn’t appear to be any “plan” of some supernatural creator. There doesn’t appear to be anything to prophesize in regards to this “plan”. People that do that sort of thing are most likely just out and out liars.

Starboy